Diet versus medication

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

Diabetes type 2 runs in my family and I alwAysgarth knew I'd be likely to have it due to having pcos and central weight gain. I was diagnosed 7 months ago and manage my condition by diet , my cousin diagnosed 5 months ago says he has chosen medication so, in his words, he can continue to eat ****. Now I love my carbs and try really hard with sweet things and carbs and here am I thinking oh so I could take Meds and still eat carbs then, I hate junk food but love puddings and potatoes and feel a bit fed up thinking oh he's chosen medication so he continue to eat rubbish and here am I working hard to keep my condition in order by diet, is he right? Can you literally have your cake and eat it? Or maybe because I have apple shaped Wright gain I am best to carry on being careful. My cousin wasn't as over weight as I am, but ate and eats a lot of junk food and sugary pop, I am about 18 lbs over weight but it's almost all on the upper body which I know is a disaster for health. I am female and middle aged and had pcos all my life since age 11.

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

Apologies for weird typing I have new device that keeps guessing what I want to write, it's meant to read always

Bluetit1802 · Apr 17, 2017

The choice is yours.

Which meds is your cousin taking and how good is his control? I suspect his control is not at all good and will deteriorate as time passes so he will need more and more meds, and stronger ones. Diet is the key, always. Even with meds you have to be careful what you eat. Even on insulin.

Personally I have every intention of staying off meds for as long as possible.

AM1874 · Apr 17, 2017

Hi @Chaobaby7 .. and welcome
Simple answer .. you are right and your cousin is wrong. Choosing medication so he can continue to eat **** is one of the daftest statements I have heard. If medication is Metformin, this has little effect on BG levels anyway.

Managing and controlling your diabetes through exercise, diet and testing your Blood Glucose seems to be the best way forward. For me, committing to an LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) lifestyle and testing 3-5 times a day seems to be working and you'll find that there is a wealth of info, relevant advice and positive support about LCHF on the forum. I would suggest that you read up on the Low Carb Program. You might also find the discussion on the Low Carb Diet forum helpful .. and the following websites ...
Low Carbs in 60 Seconds
Low Carb 10-week Programme
Hope this helps

DavidGrahamJones · Apr 17, 2017

Chaobaby7 said:
I am best to carry on being careful.

Definitely YES.

I know it's difficult but consider this, if somebody continues to eat the way they always have that's fine, it's their choice, let them get on with it and possibly pay the price later down the line. We all know that the NHS are almost definitely going to recommend eating 1/3 of you calories as carbs. I'm convinced that 1/3 isn't the best advice for all of us and I know I was never going to cope with that many carbs whatever the NHS say.

My low carbs efforts, and it's not for everyone, enabled me to stop taking Gliclazide, Sitagliptin (Januvia) and Atorvastatin (an unexpected bonus because my cholesterol dropped so much).

Had I continued the way I was, my pancreas would probably have faltered because the drugs were forcing it to make more insulin all the time. It would have worn out eventually and I'd be on insulin. Insulin was being discussed by my GP when I lowered my carb to lose weight. In my head, it's a no brainer, especially as I have really put up with a lot of side effects from several prescribed drugs that the NHS seem to think is worth tolerating, I don't.

So, a good reason not to rely on drugs, unless you have no choice, the side effects.

My opinion is stick with the reformed diet and try and avoid what I call obvious carbs, potato, rice, bread and past. If you can't manage 100% of the time, no worries, they actually become a treat when you don't eat them often and therefore they seem to be more enjoyable as a treat. We all know the complications of diabetes and making the effort to change our eating habits should be rewarded by never having worry about complications.

I assume you have a meter, that should encourage you because being able to keep BG in acceptable range is very satisfying when it's down to the efforts you have made.

ickihun · Apr 17, 2017

Chaobaby7 said:
Diabetes type 2 runs in my family and I alwAysgarth knew I'd be likely to have it due to having pcos and central weight gain. I was diagnosed 7 months ago and manage my condition by diet , my cousin diagnosed 5 months ago says he has chosen medication so, in his words, he can continue to eat ****. Now I love my carbs and try really hard with sweet things and carbs and here am I thinking oh so I could take Meds and still eat carbs then, I hate junk food but love puddings and potatoes and feel a bit fed up thinking oh he's chosen medication so he continue to eat rubbish and here am I working hard to keep my condition in order by diet, is he right? Can you literally have your cake and eat it? Or maybe because I have apple shaped Wright gain I am best to carry on being careful. My cousin wasn't as over weight as I am, but ate and eats a lot of junk food and sugary pop, I am about 18 lbs over weight but it's almost all on the upper body which I know is a disaster for health. I am female and middle aged and had pcos all my life since age 11.

He will soon progress to more meds until they no longer tolerate carbs.

lovinglife · Apr 17, 2017

I'm on metformin and gliclizide but also low carb so I can keep my meds to the minimum possible for me.

Meds are not a magic bullet I still have to control my carbs strictly- about 70 -80g a day. I tried less than 20g of carb and no meds but I was obviously quite far down the line of my T2 as my numbers rose to unacceptable levels - it took me a lot of testing , trial and error to find the balance between lowest meds and lowest carbs possible.

Taking meds so you can eat what you want is the road to ruin in my opinion - there is no such thing as being diabetic and eating what you want - but isn't that the same for everyone diabetic or not?

Keep doing what you are doing it's working for you

Goonergal · Apr 17, 2017

@Chaobaby7

You might be interested in this thread posted earlier by someone who has dramatically improved their control by switching to lchf diet after 10 years of eating carbs:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/effectiveness-of-low-carbs.119515/#post-1441825

Hotpepper20000 · Apr 17, 2017

I too have PCOS and the low carb higher fat has help me loose weight and feel much better. I take Metformin not really to help with BG control but it does help along with carful eating habits to reduce symptoms of PCOS.
Metformin does ittle to control BG and reduce symptoms of PCOS if you don't eat low carb.

Resurgam · Apr 17, 2017

I made the choice to abandon medication, as it was making my life a misery and rely entirely on diet.
It is a great incentive to resist temptation - I do eat grapes and strawberries which are over my self imposed limit, and shake my head over my lack of will power, but my drop in Hba1c from 91 to 47 in under 3 months shows just how effective low carb eating is - but I could have gone even lower without straying - can you tell I have one of those A plus type personalities? I can now stop myself from eating the whole box in one go so it isn't too bad, I suppose.
The great thing about the low carb diet is that once you are settled on it, the normal response is to feel great - the years fall away, energy returns, all sorts of interests resurface, and it tends to make you feel rather cheerful and optimistic.
If it could be converted into a pill then society would benefit greatly. Unfortunately it can't and you just have to knuckle down to the chicken salads and roast meats, the bacon and eggs with mushrooms - and then you go and lose weight as a consequence. I think I'll stick to doing Atkins, despite all the bad publicity. I think that they got it wrong, and Dr A was right all along.

Brunneria · Apr 17, 2017

@Chaobaby7
You may find this video interesting.
The presenter is a little odd, and keeps making music references to entertain his audience, which I find quite irritating.
But what he says about drugs and their effectiveness for type 2 diabetics is fascinating.

And there is a section towards the end where he says that for most type 2 diabetics on a multi-drug regime, the overall experience affects their quality of life to the same extent as having had a stroke.

And he is talking about the drugs causing that experience. Not the diabetes. The drugs.

The first time I saw that, it really brought it home to me the impact of drug side effects.

So while it will always be your choice whether you just go the diet and exercise route, or add in drugs as well, it is worth bearing in mind that while they are useful, and may become necessary, they also come with a potential price - side effects and reduction in quality of life.

Here is the video.

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

Bluetit1802 said:
The choice is yours.

Which meds is your cousin taking and how good is his control? I suspect his control is not at all good and will deteriorate as time passes so he will need more and more meds, and stronger ones. Diet is the key, always. Even with meds you have to be careful what you eat. Even on insulin.

Personally I have every intention of staying off meds for as long as possible.

That's how I want to do it too, I adore food and cooking and am determined to prove you can be a creative foody and manage the diabetes without needing Meds.

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

Bluetit1802 said:
The choice is yours.

Which meds is your cousin taking and how good is his control? I suspect his control is not at all good and will deteriorate as time passes so he will need more and more meds, and stronger ones. Diet is the key, always. Even with meds you have to be careful what you eat. Even on insulin.

Personally I have every intention of staying off meds for as long as possible.

He's on metaformin

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

AM1874 said:
Hi @Chaobaby7 .. and welcome
Simple answer .. you are right and your cousin is wrong. Choosing medication so he can continue to eat **** is one of the daftest statements I have heard. If medication is Metformin, this has little effect on BG levels anyway.

Managing and controlling your diabetes through exercise, diet and testing your Blood Glucose seems to be the best way forward. For me, committing to an LCHF (Low Carb High Fat) lifestyle and testing 3-5 times a day seems to be working and you'll find that there is a wealth of info, relevant advice and positive support about LCHF on the forum. I would suggest that you read up on the Low Carb Program. You might also find the discussion on the Low Carb Diet forum helpful .. and the following websites ...
Low Carbs in 60 Seconds
Low Carb 10-week Programme
Hope this helps

Thankyou, I try a high protein, low carbon diet with tons of yummy veg which seems to help and having sparklingood water insteadamage of pop in soon got used to that

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

DavidGrahamJones said:
Definitely YES.

I know it's difficult but consider this, if somebody continues to eat the way they always have that's fine, it's their choice, let them get on with it and possibly pay the price later down the line. We all know that the NHS are almost definitely going to recommend eating 1/3 of you calories as carbs. I'm convinced that 1/3 isn't the best advice for all of us and I know I was never going to cope with that many carbs whatever the NHS say.

My low carbs efforts, and it's not for everyone, enabled me to stop taking Gliclazide, Sitagliptin (Januvia) and Atorvastatin (an unexpected bonus because my cholesterol dropped so much).

Had I continued the way I was, my pancreas would probably have faltered because the drugs were forcing it to make more insulin all the time. It would have worn out eventually and I'd be on insulin. Insulin was being discussed by my GP when I lowered my carb to lose weight. In my head, it's a no brainer, especially as I have really put up with a lot of side effects from several prescribed drugs that the NHS seem to think is worth tolerating, I don't.

So, a good reason not to rely on drugs, unless you have no choice, the side effects.

My opinion is stick with the reformed diet and try and avoid what I call obvious carbs, potato, rice, bread and past. If you can't manage 100% of the time, no worries, they actually become a treat when you don't eat them often and therefore they seem to be more enjoyable as a treat. We all know the complications of diabetes and making the effort to change our eating habits should be rewarded by never having worry about complications.

I assume you have a meter, that should encourage you because being able to keep BG in acceptable range is very satisfying when it's down to the efforts you have made.

I have spuds as a weekly treathe they are nicer than chocolate.

Hotpepper20000 · Apr 17, 2017

I do not think that medication should not be the first step in treating Type 2.
But for some even with extreme diet changes that will not be enough and I think we have to be careful it making it sound like because some need to use medications, it means they just haven't tried hard enough.

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

Hotpepper20000 said:
I too have PCOS and the low carb higher fat has help me loose weight and feel much better. I take Metformin not really to help with BG control but it does help along with carful eating habits to reduce symptoms of PCOS.
Metformin does ittle to control BG and reduce symptoms of PCOS if you don't eat low carb.

I was diagnosed late with pcos after years of infertility but it was screaming lyrics obvious with my period problems and extreme body and facial hair, I guess it was because I was young in the 70s, I had total removal of reproductive organs last year due to cancer but still have the typical pcos stuff of excess hair and central weight gain, I wasn't in the least bit surprised when I got a diagnosis of diabetes type 2, low crab and high protein seems to work well and I was loosing weight but seem to have hit a plateau with the weight loss.

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

Resurgam said:
I made the choice to abandon medication, as it was making my life a misery and rely entirely on diet.
It is a great incentive to resist temptation - I do eat grapes and strawberries which are over my self imposed limit, and shake my head over my lack of will power, but my drop in Hba1c from 91 to 47 in under 3 months shows just how effective low carb eating is - but I could have gone even lower without straying - can you tell I have one of those A plus type personalities? I can now stop myself from eating the whole box in one go so it isn't too bad, I suppose.
The great thing about the low carb diet is that once you are settled on it, the normal response is to feel great - the years fall away, energy returns, all sorts of interests resurface, and it tends to make you feel rather cheerful and optimistic.
If it could be converted into a pill then society would benefit greatly. Unfortunately it can't and you just have to knuckle down to the chicken salads and roast meats, the bacon and eggs with mushrooms - and then you go and lose weight as a consequence. I think I'll stick to doing Atkins, despite all the bad publicity. I think that they got it wrong, and Dr A was right all along.

I am vegetarian, I eat a lot of quorn and chickpeas, I can't digest lentils very well, I started using eggs more as well. I used to fill up on carbs in the past and didn't realised I was actually addicted to them.

AM1874 · Apr 17, 2017

Chaobaby7 said:
Thankyou, I try a high protein, low carbon diet with tons of yummy veg which seems to help and having sparklingood water insteadamage of pop in soon got used to that

This is great .. I would just make sure that there is nothing added to your water (flavours etc) and that your veggies are grown "above-ground" (ie: no potatoes, and very few [if any] parsnips, turnips, carrots etc) .. I would also suggest that the balance of your diet might be improved with healthy fat replacing some of your protein
Hope this helps

Chaobaby7 · Apr 17, 2017

Brunneria said:
@Chaobaby7
You may find this video interesting.
The presenter is a little odd, and keeps making music references to entertain his audience, which I find quite irritating.
But what he says about drugs and their effectiveness for type 2 diabetics is fascinating.

And there is a section towards the end where he says that for most type 2 diabetics on a multi-drug regime, the overall experience affects their quality of life to the same extent as having had a stroke.

And he is talking about the drugs causing that experience. Not the diabetes. The drugs.

The first time I saw that, it really brought it home to me the impact of drug side effects.

So while it will always be your choice whether you just go the diet and exercise route, or add in drugs as well, it is worth bearing in mind that while they are useful, and may become necessary, they also come with a potential price - side effects and reduction in quality of life.

Here is the video.

Think I'll leave him to his piza, cola and beer and chocolate bars

Diet versus medication

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