Does diabetes shorten our lives?

[Grazer]

Grazer needs to be careful; when his teeth go they'll send him for slaughter. :wink: He'll need to talk very fast then! :lol:

I agree he's magic, though . . .

Viv 8)

They won't slaughter me. I've started a rumour that if you eat diabetic meat you can catch diabetes.

Anyway it's unfair to bring Malc into this as Malc is a sheep and probably immortal. Must be because he's a talking magic sheep.

To be honest, I don't think he really has diabetes. He just hangs out with us, becuase he thinks it makes him look cool.

You're right. I don't have any normal friends. Can I stay and hang out with you lot?

 

[xyzzy]

You're right. I don't have any normal friends. Can I stay and hang out with you lot?

Don't worry Grazer my moniker is of course a Pyrenean (Spanish btw) who will protect you and chase away those nasty wolves not that magic talking sheep need much protecting!

 

[jdm]

I really don’t know much about T1 other than the basic info. so I can’t say much about it but for T2 I really don’t believe that diabetes shortens T2's life, the point here is you have diabetes or not if you do not take care your health you have short life.
As I am T2 since since feb12, I have been reading here, searching every aspects day and night believe me(I am sure many people here got much experience then myself no disrespect to those people) so many people they are trying so hard to keep everything in control and some of us successful even compare to these kind of tables they are healthier then the non-diabetic people, so when the footballer has hearth attack in the middle of the game how can we believe all these thing are truth. I was reading here again people look after themself very well manage everything but still come and cross with problems, WHY WHY? is it the drugs that we take over the years screws us up??? or WHAT?
And another thing, when I went to see my GP first time my problem was passing water very often and drinking too much water ( i thought that it may me symptoms of t2) and nothing else at all, no pain, no problem with my eyes etc. and after the tests GP told me that have T2 my Hba1c 14%, as soon after the GP while I was waiting my Hba1c result i start dieting no sugar, no bread no this no that etc. usual stuff, and within a week drinking water and passing it stopped. then GP came and give me the results and Gliclazide 80mg X 2 that’s all, 2 days after i start taking it I start getting sharp nerve pains around my legs and arms ( why I didn’t get these pains before) week and half later my BG readings were fasting: 4.5 and +2 is around 4.7, 5.5 so when I saw my DN it was same old rubbish info that most of us here knows much much better than DN or GP.
So the question is this, when there is a good results that with diet and exercise you can cure T2 or at least no medication why they don’t recommend it, not even to try for a month to see what will happen.
This is my personal view but I think they do know that you can cure T2 but they don’t want to do it, the drugs that they give damages the body and they give another drug and carries on all your life so that drug companies can earn and governments can earn

Sorry about long moaning


thank to every one


jdm

 

[phoenix]

The serious:
My elderly (84) father recently had a heart valve replace so spent a long time in hospital in various cardiac wards.
He was usually the oldest by years and often seemed to be the only non diabetic in the ward. I'm very aware of the stats but seeing so many youngish men some with multiple problems was quite a reality check.

Sadly, quite a few of them didn't seem to do much to help themselves. There were a lot of packets of biscuits and chocolate on show and they weren't kept just for visitors. I was often there at 2 hours after meals, and as I was also about to walk a couple of miles, I would always check my blood glucose before leaving. It was a bit of an icebreaker so lead to some discussions about D which just revealed how little understanding some of them had about it. I had a chat about testing with 2 men. Both were on insulin, neither checked more than once a day and didn't really see the point of it; neither adjusted their insulin though both were on a basal/bolus regime.

One day I overheard a dietary history being taken ( the wife who answered the questions had a very loud voice and the curtains aren't exactly thick!) The diet wasn't high carb or high fat, it was for the most part high cr*p . The person taking the history didn't comment. (I really wanted to) I've no idea what ,if any, advice was given later. What is clear is that in spite of having diabetes for years, resulting in CVD, neuropathy and an amputation, this man wasn't following any healthy eating guidelines, not even the derided DUK ones.

The surprising thing was that this hospital has what I know to be a very well thought of diabetes centre.I suspect that most of the patients were cared for by their GPs . There's enough evidence on here that people find it very difficult to get referred to specialists. (my parents have had excellent care from the NHS but only when they've been referred to the hospital. It seems to take a crisis for that to happen) The endo consultants are listed as consultants for those wards so hopefully these patients will get help in the future but it's a bit of a stable door and a very costly one in terms of lives and economic resources.
My point about this, is that if some of these men die younger than they should the they will form part of the statistics .
They are not representative of people on diabetes forums who seek out information about how to help themselves . We won't all prolong out lives, I've known some people on these forums who have died but most of us are having a pretty good shot at doing everything we can to alter the prognosis.

On the less serious side, if you have a 'pension pot', those projections mean you'll be better off in retirement. Since you're expected to live a shorter life you'll get better terms. http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-pens ... ities.html
and with luck you'll prove them wrong and have a long time to enjoy the extra money

 

[xyzzy]

So the question is this, when there is a good results that with diet and exercise you can cure T2 or at least no medication why they don’t recommend it, not even to try for a month to see what will happen.

I agree with what you say jdm and that's why I post here. I don't understand why a method that works isn't being recommended by the NHS when it is in other more enlightened countries.

Just one small thing though. Dangerous to call it a cure as its not, there is no cure for T2 as if it were a cure everyone of us who has adopted the good diet could then go back on a bad diet and be ok. The better word to use is control. Using the word cure gives some people false hopes.

This is my personal view but I think they do know that you can cure T2 but they don’t want to do it, the drugs that they give damages the body and they give another drug and carries on all your life so that drug companies can earn and governments can earn

Nope don't agree with that its a bit too conspiracy theory for me. At any time across a whole range of things not just diabetes there is a prevailing view as to what is correct and what works. You then get an establishment view that is very difficult to change because of vested interests. Happens all the time in all the sciences and other disciplines. In the end some smartarse comes along with a new theory that disproves the old way. The establishment will fight tooth and nail to keep the old view. What's been found to happen time after time in these cases is that once the new view begins to gain acceptance then there is a tipping point which when passed rapidly means the new theory replaces the old one and the old establishment view is replaced.

So keep saying the diet and exercise thing load and clear as it will work to change things in the end. The more loudly the new view is shouted the quicker it will replace the old views.

 

[jdm]

can anyone tell me pls. when would you say that T2 is Cured,
when you dont need medication?
or
when you can eat as much as rubish you can eat?
or
when your BG doing very well even you have tons of food etc?

WHEN?

 

[claymic]

i would not dare trying to figure out by how much my life is shortened...i believe i am not going to live past 50

 

[xyzzy]

can anyone tell me pls. when would you say that T2 is Cured,

In your terms the second and third of you statements.

When you can eat as much as sugar and other carbohydrates as a non diabetic person without it raising your blood levels above normal levels, not just for a day or so but for years.

At the moment the only "cures" are a pancreas transplant and MAYBE getting diagnosed really early when PRE DIABETIC and then losing all the weight and continuing from that point to adopt a healthy lifestyle.

Apart from that in my view there is no cure everything else is just keeping it under control which is different.

 

[thetallerpaul]

Hello all,

I'm new at this but data and numbers is mainly my job so since diagnosis I have had a little dig around on this question. The simple stats says yes it will shorten your life by about 10 years as a type 2 and about 20 for a type 1. However these stats are so flawed as to make them useless in my opinion. The average diabetic (present company excluded of course) is far more likely to be overweight, high blood pressure and cholesterol for example and this is not taken into account in these studies. The Type 1 statistics also include a lot of type 1's who sadly had very poor care in the last few decades and have considerable health issues to baseline.

In order to do this properly you would need an adequate sample size of matched cohorts of people i.e. 100 people with diabetes and 100 without with as close as possible lifestyle, weight and baseline health and watch to see how they go. My hypothesis is that there would be a small impact on life expectancy in those who did not commit to manage their condition. If someone knows where a study like that exists I would love to see it.

I'm 29 with BMI of 21, low cholesterol and blood pressure who doesn't smoke or drink. Following this diagnosis I now eat more healthily than I ever did before and once my Insulin dose is sorted will be taking better exercise. I am commited to care for myself and I believe that I will live longer than my predicted life expectancy and longer than I would pre-diagnosis. Also its made my parents and wife change their diets and will be a better example for my 10 month old girl as she grows up. All of these people should hopefully live longer as well. So for me diabetes will ADD years to my life and those I love!

Peace.

Paul

 

[phoenix]

Good answer Paul,
Though having two parents who are old but have lots of other medical problems I sometimes wonder if trying to live a long life is necessarily a good thing

 

[xyzzy]

Phoenix

Hope your father is doing well, its a very stressful time when parents get ill.

I agree entirely with what you have written regards to patients who are entering the system at an ever increasing and alarming rates.

My view is maybe a lot more interventionist than most so I WOULD have liked the person making the diet history to comment and comment loudly so that everyone heard. I wonder if that patient was a 100 a day smoker if the HCP would have been quite so quiet.

While I agree that the causes of the problems are largely outside the control of the NHS (smoking was) it doesn't help if the system that is supposed to protect and educate us all effectively sits back and advocates doing nothing because it doesn't want to offend peoples sensibilities or makes things easy for people by advocating and practising policies that are patently to lax. I've said previously I really wish one of my gp's had really had a go at me by say pointing out I was putting on weight and that my family had a history of db. It may have changed my outcome.

Secondly and just as importantly I believe SOME of the reason that the "truth" is not stated is because of vested interests that currently exist to keep the status-quo. Unless people shout loudly nothing will ever change regardless of whether evidence exists that change should occur.

 

[Unbeliever]

Yes there are more people entering the system but it seems that targwes are being relaxed when we hear hat post-prandial levels of 11 and 12 are now acceptable. I wonder how his is squared wih even the NICE guidelines let alone the new findings we have seen discussed here?
When presented with increased numbers needing treatment but no increased resources it must be a choice between moving the goalposts or finding better ways to offer care wihin the budget,

The lowering of targets seems to sugges the former as the preferred option alhough I believe the other option to be both possible and preferable.
I am sure that here must be "plans!in the pipeline and await them with interest and some trepidayion.
perhaps at present, all we are seeing is a sort of compromise teemporary solution of utting some corners and relaxing some controls.

Maybe someone is preparing a "Final Solution" Then diabetes will certainly have shortened our lives!

 

[noblehead]

The surprising thing was that this hospital has what I know to be a very well thought of diabetes centre.I suspect that most of the patients were cared for by their GPs . There's enough evidence on here that people find it very difficult to get referred to specialists. (my parents have had excellent care from the NHS but only when they've been referred to the hospital.

The reason why I asked my gp to refer me back to the care of my hospital clinic around 3 years ago. My care is fine under my gp practise but I feel more comfortable and assured being under the care of my Endo consultant, when I attend I have not only the Endo to hand but a DSN, Podiatrist and a Dietitian also.

Hope your father makes a full recovery Phoenix!

 

[Ali H]

My father (not blood relly as I am adopted) has type 2 and has been so for the last 25 years now. He didn't educate himself and to this day doesn't watch what he eats. My parents live with us and in fact are both type 2. He will be 88 in June, he has just sailed through thyroid surgery for cancer and radio iodine isolation treatment. His pre bedtime readings are invariably in double figures and nothing I say or do pursuades him to change his sweet tooth.

So he must be nearing 10 years over the average life expectancy for a man in modern England, he fought in the war and served in Palestine in the RAF too. He had a hard, manual worker's career as a sheet metal worker until he retired. He takes Lantus and Gliclazide.

So who knows! He does have neuropathy and his retinopathy scans are not perfect but he hasn't required any treatment on his eyes. I think tonight I have pursuaded him not to renew his licence in June as I do worry about his driving now.

Ali

 

[xyzzy]

The lowering of targets seems to sugges the former

Yes a classic response by desperate people when they are proved wrong . If what you claim is proved to produce the wrong answer change the answer and then claim you're still right! Simples...

So the target is 8.5, the average person doesn't hit it so change it to a value they do mostly hit. Easy....

If that doesn't work every time someone points out your long held belief is wrong try and derail what those people are saying so that a minimum number of people see you are wrong.

Normal "spin" and spoiler tactics. Politicians use them all the time and just hope you are gullible enough to be fooled.

It may not be a "Final Solution" but it certainly isn't the correct solution and is costing average people years off their lives.

 

[emmatree]

That's so interesting, that might explain why my new DSN has written a 2 hour post meal target of under 10 in my new book!!! First time I've seen that, sure it used to say 8.5

Type 2, metforminx2, ramiprilx1

 

[Unbeliever]

New guidelines must have been issued to the HCP's . Probably, once again, in an effort not to depress patients.

Why does it depress me so much I wonder?

 

[xyzzy]

That's so interesting, that might explain why my new DSN has written a 2 hour post meal target of under 10 in my new book!!! First time I've seen that, sure it used to say 8.5

Type 2, metforminx2, ramiprilx1

Try your best to stick to the old 8.5 Emma, that's what written in UK N.I.C.E guidelines. Even that's a very old guideline nowadays as lots of countries would tell you 7.8. The IDF (International Diabetes Federation) originally set the 8.5 limit back in the late 1970's I think and the UK took their lead from them. In 2006 the IDF revised the limit down to 7.8 but we didn't follow. Why? A lot of other countries did.

The IDF revised it down based on a lot evidence to suggest that all those nasty complications you can get start on average around that 7.8 limit.

It's your choice as to what risk you want to take but 7.8 is pretty easy for most correctly diagnosed new Type 2's just on Metformin to achieve if you adjust to a suitable lower carbohydrate diet.

Take care and keep asking questions!

 

[viviennem]

We can all write to our MPs about it. And the Health Ministers; and the BBC.

http://www.parliament.uk. They're all on there, both Lords and Commons. Just click through.

If you can't beat 'em, at least make a b***dy nuisance of yourself ! :thumbup: :crazy:

Viv 8) (aka Disgusted of Wensleydale :lol: :lol: )

 

[xyzzy]

New guidelines must have been issued to the HCP's . Probably, once again, in an effort not to depress patients.

Why does it depress me so much I wonder?

Don't be depressed get LOUD unbeliever The LOUDER people shout about these issues the quicker the old bad ways get exposed and consigned to history along with their supporters. They know they are wrong and are hanging on by their fingertips.