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Does Fiasp Cause Weight Gain

Discussion in 'Insulin' started by ronialive, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi All,
    I am looking for some information about Fiasp. My diabetic nurse has suggested I try it in my pump instead of hypurin porcine. I am prone to weight gain on most insulin and so eventually return to pork after no hypo warnings either.
    My control has gone haywire over the last few weeks- believe it may be hormone related as I am 49.
    She has suggested Fiasp but I am so anxious as I can see pumpers have had difficulties and it can cause weight gain.
    has anyone actually experienced this?
    thanks
     
  2. scotteric

    scotteric Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried NovoRapid before? It's exactly the same insulin with a few additives, namely vitamin B, to speed up absorption. I'd wager your problem is not insulin specifically, but that certain insulins are causing you more hypos causing you to eat more and gain weight. What problems are you experiencing? If it's post-meal spikes, Fiasp can help with this, but even NovoRapid, Humalog or Apidra work much quicker than the insulin you're currently on and could help. If it's hormonal issues causing higher basal needs, maybe you just need to increase your basal rates instead of changing insulins.
     
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  3. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I am having ridiculously massive spikes after meals . I used to have novorapid many years ago but lost all hypo warning signs. I was put on apidra and didn't hypo ut in 2 years gained 3 stone and so it has been since I was 15 and changed off porcine. I wnet back onto porcine and have lost all the weight.
    Nurse wants to change me to fiasp - I am not keen as after 44/45 years on insulin I know what they do but obviously have no experience with Fiasp
     
  4. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    [
    it has only been the last 4-5 weeks
     
  5. scotteric

    scotteric Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    As I said, Fiasp is the same insulin as NovoRapid with additives, so you are going to have the same problems. Unfortunately the insulin you are using is very slow-acting which is probably why you are having huge spikes. Are you pre-bolusing at least 30 minutes before eating?
     
  6. kitedoc

    kitedoc Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @ronialive, I use Novorapid in my insulin pump. And to check the basal rate program I do a 12 hours fast, say, 12 md (so no lunch and no bolus, no dinner, no bolus)) to 12 mn WITH 2 hourly BSLs. That way I can see whether that 12 hours or so of basal program is working (nor save going more than a 12 hour fast and possibly developing ketones from I would then have a small meal with a bolus dose at 12mn). If I developed low bsls in that testing I would know that my basal program dosing was too high in places (and I would be more prone to gaining weight).
    I would then several days later do a 12 mn to 12 pm fasting time with 2 hourly BSLs (and maybe match sticks to keep my eyes open !!). Then the same deal with the basal program. I would then wait a week or so and recheck each 12 hour basal programs.
    I still at times have problems with high BSLs after a meal (often it is to do with the meal itself and whether I am eating high GI and GL foods or not (see mendosa.com. Glycemic Values for definitions and values for various food like cereals etc).
    Having high bsls and then by taking a correcting dose of short-acting insulin meant I was increasing the amount of sugar going into cells of the body, including fat cells. So looking at diet, carbs, calories etc and discussing with a dietitian and looking at low or lower carb diets helped me. Low carb diets are apparently approved by NHS.
    Also Novorapid and similar insulins take 2 to 3 hours to reach a peak in their blood-sugar lowering effect, whereas the blood sugar rise from a meal might peak at 100 to 120 minutes. So the rise in blood sugar precedes the bolus insulin's maximal effect and BSL may be too high. But also sometimes the short-acting insulin is of such a dose that it belatedly pushes the BSL down to hypo levels and the extra food needed for treating the hypo adds to weight gain, unless the problem of timing of sugar peaks and insulin peak effect are better matched. I take my Novorapid pump bolus , eat protein portion of my meal and 20 to 25 minutes later have the carb components of my meal. That seems to aid the match up for me.
    What Fiasp is advertised to do is reach its peak effect by 2 hours or slightly earlier, to better catch the blood sugar rise. I have not used Fiasp and so cannot comment on whether it lives up to its advertising. There are individuals who believe it works better than other short-acting insulins in their insulin pumps.
    I would ask you to think about the above, which is from personal experience and not professional advice or opinion, and consider doing some BSLs measurements as above and discuss with your dsn/doctor before deciding further. Best Wishes.
     
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  7. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    If your hypo awareness is suspect, does that not increase the likelihood of the Mibre, or a CGM being helpful to you?

    Have you used a Libre to try, via the additional data, to identify what could be going on in recent times?
     
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  8. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    the issue isn't my hypo awareness as my insulin solves that the question was does fiasp cause weight gain or I wont be prepared to change?
    no I am no eligible for cgm as I use hyporine porcine and hence have no hypo unawareness and yes I use a libre. Libre does not help fiasp and weight gain?
     
  9. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    thanks but I know and teach all this- the question was does fiasp cause weight gain? thanks for the advice but it doesn't answer the question at all.
     
  10. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    45 minutes- the problem was a faulty bottle. The problem is just Does Fiasp cause weight gain?
     
  11. scotteric

    scotteric Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why it would cause weight gain unless you are constantly going low and eating. There's nothing specific about it that would cause you to gain weight as compared to any other insulin. What I would expect is that you would need less of it for the same amount of carbs and that if you don't modify your doses you will be constantly going low and eating which will lead to weight gain. The profile of it is different than the insulin you are using now and so you can't just dose it the same way and expect the same result.
     
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  12. kitedoc

    kitedoc Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @ronialive, as i tried to explain, any insulin can cause weight gain, if the conditions are 'right' ie too high a dose leading to too many carbs eaten or hypos needing more carbs, or too many carbs in diet leading to higher doses of insulin. That is from my diabetes education and my experience over 51 years on insulin with injecting of many different insulins, BUT not Fiasp.
    If you teach that then you know. And you would perhaps have searched for articles on the question you have asked ? Did you find any specific reference to Fiasp, as opposed to other insulins, causing weight gain? Because I could not find any such reference. I am only too happy to be corrected.
    Perhaps your question is: Does Fiasp, dose for dose, isocaloric and food content diet for diet, same time of day, in the same group of individual T1Ds , for a statistically relevant number of such individuals on a statistically relevant number of occasions, cause more weight gain than other short-acting insulins?
    Or is it that you are seeking one or more qualitative answers from individuals who feel that in their experience they gained weight, or more weight, using Fiasp compared to use of other short-acting insulins ?
     
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    #12 kitedoc, Aug 13, 2018 at 3:20 AM
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  13. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

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    If you gained weight on Novorapid, I’d expect you to gain weight on Fiasp as the underlying insulin is the same.

    Does that happen to everyone? No.
     
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  14. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Fiasp quoted as causing weight gain and information redibly available on the weight gain problems of analogue and human insulins over the poricen and bovine varieties- having nothing to do with excess hypos or excess carbs. Reading an article doesn't make it so so I wanted to know from people taking it.
    The worst I found was Apidra- 3 stone in 2 years. I go to weight watchers so diet tightly controlled.
     
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  15. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    upload_2018-8-14_1-49-4.png
     
  16. scotteric

    scotteric Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Every insulin far as I know lists weight gain as a side effect, but for the majority of people it's not the insulin by itself that causes weight gain but how it is used. I'm not familiar with weight gain being a problem with analogs, I've never heard this before and never experienced it myself. I was diagnosed in 2006 though, so I have no experience with animal insulins. I gained back the weight I lost when I started taking insulin at diagnosis, but I've never noticed any of the insulins I've taken, includong NovoRapid, Levemir, Fiasp, Humalog or Human Regular to cause weight gain unless I am eating too much! That being said I don't have hypo unawareness on these insulins, so you may have particular issues I haven't experienced. I definitely believe we all have unique experiences regardless of how things are supposed to work. I have nothing but problems with Tresiba for example, yet other people have never had better control on it. If hypo awareness is a problem for you on human insulin and NovoRapid caused you problems, I don't think Fiasp will work better for you I hate to say.
     
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    #16 scotteric, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:58 AM
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  17. kitedoc

    kitedoc Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    As has been said ALL insulins have the potential to produce weight gain. BUT it is difficult to compare newer insulins with the porcine and bovine varieties because of antibodies which build up with the latter, animal-derived insulins and because these a
    latter insulins have unreliable absorption. In short, newer insulins are more reliable and thus efficient and that may be interpreted as causing greater weight gain per dose except that for any semblance of good BSL control, after the honeymoon period is over, will likely require relatively higher doses of the animal-derived insulins. Dose to dose comparisons may thus be void.
     
  18. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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  19. ronialive

    ronialive Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think after 43 years I am well passed the honey moon period and thank you for your wise words but could I now ask the rest of the community - is anyone using Fiasp and have you noticed weight gain as the official side effects state it. Would you pm me please as I would not want to post here either
     
  20. fairylights

    fairylights Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I have been pumping with fiasp for some time (over a year) and have not had any weight gain. In fact I have lost 2 stone over the last 4 months.
     
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