Don't overeat the fat

[BrianTheElder]

I read a very interesting article today by Dr Stephen Phinney on the Virta Blog.
The main point that came across was "There is no special relationship between mobilization of body fat stores (ie weight loss) and blood ketone levels". That means that it is not a good thing per se to have high levels of ketones in the blood that need to be disposed of. If you eat sufficient fat to provide enough energy for your body through ketones and become sated, then that is fine. Eating additional fat means this has to be got rid of, producing more ketones, without having any affect on stored fat.
So if you are trying to lose weight, eat low carb, moderate proteins and minimal fat to be sated. Additional fat to raise ketone levels may well cause weight gain.

Phinney says "as long as dietary protein is kept moderate and carbs low, this dietary fat is used in place of body fat to produce ketones, so clearly nutritional ketosis can be maintained without any further weight loss. We have named this a ‘eucaloric ketogenic diet'".
Edited for layout.​

 

[Brunneria]

I've always thought this makes sense.

However, the reason that I eat fat when keto or zero carb is simple - if I don’t, i get so hungry i will eat too much - protein or carbs, doesn’t matter. And of course if i eat carbs then i want more...

So yes, for me, increased fat is very, very helpful to prevent hunger and overeating carbs and protein. This is particularly the case when I cut carbs completely and go carnivore.

 

[BrianTheElder]

I don't think anyone ever said that keto means eating lots of extra fat for no particular reason or goal. The reason that you eat fat in keto is to provide your body with energy via fat instead of via carbs. But obviously you provide the same calories either way, unless trying to lose weight.

Sorry, I wasn't replying to someone.
I thought the article was interesting because I keep seeing posts where people are adding butter and double cream to other foods. I have tended to do things like add butter to vegetables, just to balance out the carbs and protein. With fats at 9 calories/g, this is possibly not wise. I also measure my ketones regularly and believed there was a target nutritional zone to aim for, perhaps I was wrong.

 

[Hotpepper20000]

I've always thought this makes sense.

However, the reason that I eat fat when keto or zero carb is simple - if I don’t, i get so hungry i will eat too much - protein or carbs, doesn’t matter. And of course if i eat carbs then i want more...

So yes, for me, increased fat is very, very helpful to prevent hunger and overeating carbs and protein. This is particularly the case when I cut carbs completely and go carnivore.

I couldn’t agree more. It was the key to helping the crazy hunger I always had before I knew I have insulin resistance
I enjoy full fat everything but I don’t make things like Fat bombs and stay away from baking, even low carb and most Nuts.

 

[merlo]

I think there are major benefits to ketones (appetite suppression, improvements in sleep/ mood, anti-inflammatory and maybe others we don't know about yet), but contrary to popular blogs, nutritional ketosis does not necessarily mean weight loss! The amount of fat you consume in your diet will impact how much weight you lose, even if your ketones are high. Here's a really interesting post by Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek on this subject: Keto Diet and Weight Loss

 

[BrianTheElder]

I think there are major benefits to ketones (appetite suppression, improvements in sleep/ mood, anti-inflammatory and maybe others we don't know about yet), but contrary to popular blogs, nutritional ketosis does not necessarily mean weight loss! The amount of fat you consume in your diet will impact how much weight you lose, even if your ketones are high. Here's a really interesting post by Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek on this subject: Keto Diet and Weight Loss

Hi @merlo I agree, of course - in fact the article you referenced is the one I was quoting from!

 

[zand]

I find that my body burns fat better than carbs or protein so the 9 cal per g from fat as opposed to 4 cal per g from carbs and protein is a very misleading 'fact'. My body isn't a furnace in a laboratory so it doesn't burn calories like one. Not all calories are equal, we just don't metabolize fuel in the same way that a furnace burns fuel.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

As long as I keep the carbs and protein very low I would find it very hard to eat so much fat that I put on weight. It's just not palatable to eat fat to excess without the carbs and protein.

 

[AloeSvea]

I personally don't want to look at the world of food in terms of calories per gram or even levels of ketones in my pee or blood - although I have been known to do such sort during experiments, and it's great that y'all above do this measuring and analysing stuff.

But as a simple peasant type gal I just know it would very very hard to overdo the fat - fat is just soooooo filling. How to pile away mountains of olives and feta? Exactly how much cream can you eat in one day? Ditto cheese, pork crackling, fried pork fat, butter - the whole caboodle. And I eat that stuff a lot. There is no doubt in my mind, scales, measuring tape that what puts on the body fat for me is carbs, and not the dietary fat.

Which is why I find keto very good for weight maintenance, but yeah. Being full on lovely tasting non glucose-raising food. Weight loss for diabetic-body-mine is a way more complex game. The thinking about weight loss for me at least, is about belly fat and the surmised fat in the liver and pancreas contributing to highly resistant insulin resistance (if it isn't long-term permanent damage). And that for me turns out to be a very long game.