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Dr Jason Fung mauled by impeccable logic of Calorie Restriction fans...

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This (maybe) can occur after long-term severe calorie restriction, which is why that is not recommended when dieting. Although, there isn’t universal agreement that it occurs at all (look up the myth of starvation theory). And, although a terrible example to have to use, anorexia would not exist if metabolic slow down was a common adaptation. However, if it does, it would be true with ANY long term weight loss diet, including LCHF and keto.
 
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Walking Girl said:
However, if it does, it would be true with ANY long term weight loss diet, including LCHF and keto.
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Not really because LCHF doesn't usually involve calorie restriction.. it utilises hormonal responses to food.
That's kind of what the disagreement was about.
 
I’m certain that I consume way more calories now than I ever did. The difference is that my body uses them all instead of storing them by packing my liver and nearby organs full of fat.
 
Shiba Park said:
Both members since Tuesday. In my book, sub 48 hours is definitely a "newbie".
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That probably depends if one’s definition of a “newbie” is someone drawn to the website through outside sources with the sole intention of upsetting the apple cart in an attempt to protect their own interests.
 
Shiba Park said:
Both members since Tuesday. In my book, sub 48 hours is definitely a "newbie".
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If you go back and read through the posts, you'll see that neither "newbie" is a "diabetic" or came here for "help". I think it was Brunneria who clarified this. They came here to argue about CICO. One is a nutritionist, the other a fitness trainer if I'm recalling correctly.
 
bulkbiker said:
Not really because LCHF doesn't usually involve calorie restriction.. it utilises hormonal responses to food.
That's kind of what the disagreement was about.
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I understand the disagreement. And I’m weighing in on the side that thinks LCHF works *because* of calorie restriction. When is there not a hormonal response to food?
 
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How is the low carb diet "calorie restriction"? To insure that doesn't happen, we increase fat intake to make up for the carbohydrate reduction. For those who want to lose weight, fat intake can be lessened, so the body's fat reserves are utilized instead. But even then, the bodies energy needs are being met, right?

I'm not doing low carb to lose weight. It's a way of eating for me. I'm using fasting to lose weight.

It's way past my bedtime. Goodnight all. Or should I say good morning? [giggle]
 
Walking Girl said:
I understand the disagreement. And I’m weighing in on the side that thinks LCHF works *because* of calorie restriction. When is there not a hormonal response to food?
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I'm afraid my data set tends to disagree with you.
There is always a hormonal response to food, however the nature of that response is dependent on the food involved.
I have practised months of calorie restriction with no weight loss and experienced ad libitum eating with "excessive" calorie intake and lost weight especially at the start of my journey. Many others on the forum report the same.
This is exactly why we are in a position to disagree with the blanket "eat less move more" CICO philosophy beloved of young fitness trainers and dietitians..and, worse luck, most researchers.
 

Right. Also known as “reducing calories”.
 
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No, not reducing calories if in ketosis. Caloric needs are met by eating more fat or utilizing fat reserves.
 
I’ve lost count of the amount of ketogenic users we see on these boards eating everything in their path and asking what they can do to gain weight
 
The reason why calorie restriction doesn't work long term us that it us hard to maintain. You are permanently on a diet. Not so with LCHF. It's a lifestyle with the only restriction being on carbs.
Walking Girl said:
I understand the disagreement. And I’m weighing in on the side that thinks LCHF works *because* of calorie restriction. When is there not a hormonal response to food?
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The problem with your argument is that I have counted calories for years. I know for a fact that I eat many more calories with LCHF than on previous diets yet I have lost weight.
 
Walking Girl said:
Right. Also known as “reducing calories”.
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I notice all the CICO advocates are studiously ignoring the link to my fat fast thread that I have posted twice here. The first time was on page 4. Please can you tell me how I can lose weight whilst eating 1000 cals extra a day if your 'LCHF works because of calorie restriction' theory is true?
 
This is my understanding and just my opinion.
With regard Type 2 Diabetes;
Restricting calories from carbohydrates is a good thing, all day long.
Restricting calories from fats can be utilised for different reasons, weight maintenance - this happens at the 'tweaking' phase.
Fasting, for me, would serve to provoke autophagy. For some it is successful wrt weight loss stalls.
Intermittent Fasting lowers the frequency and duration of insulin responses, always a good thing whatever your weight.
 

The "Inconvenient Truth" so let's just ignore it way of discussing things..?
 
It is true that it is less easy to eat too much if you restrict carbs. There's a limit to how much fat you can have without carbs. For me the 2150 cals daily was the maximum I could physically eat, yet if I had had bread with my butter I could have eaten more. But like I said I actually increased calories when I started LCHF and lost weight.
 
I’d like to know why humans are the only creatures in the entire animal kingdom that [apparently] need a slide rule and a spreadsheet in order to not gain (or lose) weight
 
Guzzler said:
Perhaps you may find the 'Carbohydrate Insulin Model' interesting research, after all this is a Diabetes site not only a weight loss site.
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Exactly, i agree with you guzzler. as far as I'm concerned ATZ is talking from an non diabetic view point.
Restricting calories to lose weight may work in the short term. However this cannot be maintained as the system goes into starvation mode, reverting to early man's survival mechanism, by laying down fat, for those lean times when food is scarce. Making it more difficult to lose weight..
I think all calories are not equal, know idea why rice diet has been mentioned, as a diabetic this puts far too much stress on the pancreas, has the inability to break down carbs and utilizes carbs appropriately therefore stored as fat, whereas fats are not.

Depriving the system of carbs, regardless of calories consumed weight loss is significant. Depleting internal fat. Low carbing works, not calories.in calories out.

I would like to know what ATZ diabetes status is and how it work for that person.
 

This is not maintainable, all it does kick starts the system, 800 calorie is far too low. Low carbing or keto provides the same resulted. Those on Newcastle diet, go onto low carbing.
 
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