Dr Phillip Lee MP - Try Engaging Brain

[martinduncannon]

Not all politicians are as callous as Philip Lee. See for example, this parliamentary report:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/diabetics-die-through-lack-of-care-say-mps-8282869.html

Or the parliamentary group on diabetes:
http://adriansanders.org/westminster/appg-diabetes

The challenge for us as diabetics is to work with those who are positive and who understand.

 

[pompeykeith]

To nikkig, 60,000,000 x 1 = 60,000,000.
60,000,000 x 1,000,000 would bet a lot more!
Nice idea though.

 

[pompeykeith]

If he wants to reduce the financial burden on the nhs then his governement should put a stop to all the immigration into this county that has over-stretched all the social infrastructure in the uk. This is not a racist or xenaphobic statement, just the logical truth.

 

[viviennem]

If he wants to reduce the financial burden on the nhs then his governement should put a stop to all the immigration into this county that has over-stretched all the social infrastructure in the uk. This is not a racist or xenaphobic statement, just the logical truth.

Unfortunately, if we did that we'd be short of a lot of NHS consultants, doctors, anaesthetists, nurses etc. But I do agree - we need to think more carefully about who we allow in at the moment. Have you heard that the gov't is going to stop the racehorse trainers bringing in work riders from Asia and the Near East? but most UK teenagers are too heavy for the young horses :shock:

I'm not being racist either - my maternal grandfather was from South Africa, and if he hadn't been allowed in I wouldn't be here. I'm just waiting for the BNP to pay for me to go back :wink: .

Viv 8)

 

[jopar]

If he wants to reduce the financial burden on the nhs then his governement should put a stop to all the immigration into this county that has over-stretched all the social infrastructure in the uk. This is not a racist or xenaphobic statement, just the logical truth.

Unfortunately, if we did that we'd be short of a lot of NHS consultants, doctors, anaesthetists, nurses etc. But I do agree - we need to think more carefully about who we allow in at the moment. Have you heard that the gov't is going to stop the racehorse trainers bringing in work riders from Asia and the Near East? but most UK teenagers are too heavy for the young horses :shock:

I'm not being racist either - my maternal grandfather was from South Africa, and if he hadn't been allowed in I wouldn't be here. I'm just waiting for the BNP to pay for me to go back :wink: .

Viv 8)

I agree it's not stopping people from settling here, but doing what the Aussie do, that you have the financial backing or find employment that ensures that you don't require government assistance!

But we need to refocus public opinion...

Stamping feet, debate whether a particular 'word' is negative or who is or isn't to blame only ingrains into the public mindset one phrase 'He protest too much.....'

We need to flick the 'burden' from the patient receiving said treatment to 'burden' of bad management structure, badly compiled external contracts ect... As these are the true burden's to the NHS not the patient and as it's bad management that has cost the NHS dam slight more money than the patient...

The Guardians of the NHS (managers, MP's etc) have over the last 20 years or so, managed very successfully to turn the true burden of blame, from their own incompetence and lay it at the door step of the patient... And when did they try to defend themselves with 'we aren't guilty' they didn't... Just worked away to change public focus somewhere else!

When I was first diagnosed there wasn't a 'blame' or perceived 'burden' then access to medical treatment was terrible with long waiting lists, yet still we didn't get any blame or told we were burdens... Lack of Funding got the blame, then when funding became available and still no improvements really made (the managers just created more managers and increased their pay), and people started to suggest 'bad management' the managers then started to focus attention to who actually used the service slowly laying blame on those the NHS was created to help... So public opinion shifted they had something else to blame, why they couldn't get their hip replacement or pacemaker fitted, have to wait months and months to see a consultant and their prescription charges were going up and up...

So time to turn the clocks back, ignore the general opinion that it's us to blame and shove it back where it really belongs with the managers of the NHS...

 

[izzzi]

Hi Viviennem

I could not agree more. After the recent event in Rotherham regarding child care, it would be interesting to hear your view on UKIP as I hope their not connected to BNP.

Any back to the NHS Cost / Burden for diabetes.

78% of the 5% NHS cost came from the management and treatment of avoidable diabetes, " this proved a financial failure"

Very little was spent on self control for diabetes to manage their own condition

Nothing spent to test and educate our children regarding diabetes awareness.

Also where did the 5% come from, when not all the NHS trust could work out their own financial results. 5% cannot be realistic.

This is not down to Doctors nor patients , It is overpaid share holders and bad management. ( You may ask what share holders,try looking at MP's and their interest in drug companies)


Roy,

 

[GraceK]

If he wants to reduce the financial burden on the nhs then his governement should put a stop to all the immigration into this county that has over-stretched all the social infrastructure in the uk. This is not a racist or xenaphobic statement, just the logical truth.

Unfortunately, if we did that we'd be short of a lot of NHS consultants, doctors, anaesthetists, nurses etc. But I do agree - we need to think more carefully about who we allow in at the moment. Have you heard that the gov't is going to stop the racehorse trainers bringing in work riders from Asia and the Near East? but most UK teenagers are too heavy for the young horses :shock:

I'm not being racist either - my maternal grandfather was from South Africa, and if he hadn't been allowed in I wouldn't be here. I'm just waiting for the BNP to pay for me to go back :wink: .

Viv 8)

I agree it's not stopping people from settling here, but doing what the Aussie do, that you have the financial backing or find employment that ensures that you don't require government assistance!

But we need to refocus public opinion...

Stamping feet, debate whether a particular 'word' is negative or who is or isn't to blame only ingrains into the public mindset one phrase 'He protest too much.....'

We need to flick the 'burden' from the patient receiving said treatment to 'burden' of bad management structure, badly compiled external contracts ect... As these are the true burden's to the NHS not the patient and as it's bad management that has cost the NHS dam slight more money than the patient...

The Guardians of the NHS (managers, MP's etc) have over the last 20 years or so, managed very successfully to turn the true burden of blame, from their own incompetence and lay it at the door step of the patient... And when did they try to defend themselves with 'we aren't guilty' they didn't... Just worked away to change public focus somewhere else!

When I was first diagnosed there wasn't a 'blame' or perceived 'burden' then access to medical treatment was terrible with long waiting lists, yet still we didn't get any blame or told we were burdens... Lack of Funding got the blame, then when funding became available and still no improvements really made (the managers just created more managers and increased their pay), and people started to suggest 'bad management' the managers then started to focus attention to who actually used the service slowly laying blame on those the NHS was created to help... So public opinion shifted they had something else to blame, why they couldn't get their hip replacement or pacemaker fitted, have to wait months and months to see a consultant and their prescription charges were going up and up...

So time to turn the clocks back, ignore the general opinion that it's us to blame and shove it back where it really belongs with the managers of the NHS...

Well ... if it's not diabetics it's immigrants to blame. Same old, same old vicious circle which the men at the top love to see everyone running round and round in. It's called divide and conquer - Governments love playing that game.

 

[jopar]

Grace

I agree with you... It's a game of Divide and Conquer A game the government play so well to cover up their blunders and mismanagement that effect Joe Public...

Hence why I say play them at their own game, focus the perception of blame and burden elsewhere or should I actually say where it belongs 'bad management'.

 

[iph888]

Burden - Seriously!!!
What exactly is the NHS for if not to treat patients - we are customers & everyone's taxes pay for the NHS. We have rights as customers and poor attitudes towards us where we are considered burdens should lead to disciplinaries. I am absolutely outraged to even contemplate being considered a burden so if anyone tried that line with me they would be expecting it to be referred upwards & upwards until I was satisfied it never happened again!

 

[cmoon]

I am astonished at even the mention of rationing health care to only those who suffer illnesses and diseases through "no fault of their own." Refusing to pay for medication for Type II Diabetics because they assume it was their lifestyle that brought about this condition? I could not disagree more. For such an ignorant suggestion to even be considered is beyond me. Where will they stop? Will they refuse to pay for any injuries caused by extreme sports, "because they knew what they were doing was dangerous." What about mothers becoming pregnant and childbirth care...because they knew what brings babies but engaged in a relationship irregardless, what about HIV patients, because they continue to have a relationship with high risk groups, it's their lifestyle that could have contributed to that. What about our brave soldiers? Refuse them treatment too because they chose to engage in a dangerous career. What about car accidents...shouldn't have been behind the wheel? Drug addicts, and unbelievably there's no mention of denying care for careless irresponsible young people (some older as well) who engage in binge drinking and other "lifestyle choices". Let them bleed to death in the street if they can't pay for their own care. And, I will never believe the majority of immigrants who come to this country to live, some to work, some, simply to milk the 'open policy' of our healthcare system. I simply cannot believe how the British public is being crushed, victimised, and bled financially til they can no longer support themselves while rich power hungry politicians continue to bask in their posh jobs, paid for by the very taxpayer they are destroying. I don't know a single diabetic who would not purchase food and drink that would help them control weight, who would not take advantage of health advisors who help them achieve as healthy a life style as possible, if it was affordable or available. And, not every Type II Diabetic is diabetic because of an "over-indulgent lifestyle". Many of them suffer diabetes like my husband does, because of a life changing injury that has made his mobility almost zero. And, Mr. Politician, I don't believe he has eaten a doughnut in the last twenty years!

 

[GraceK]

I am astonished at even the mention of rationing health care to only those who suffer illnesses and diseases through "no fault of their own." Refusing to pay for medication for Type II Diabetics because they assume it was their lifestyle that brought about this condition? I could not disagree more. For such an ignorant suggestion to even be considered is beyond me. Where will they stop? Will they refuse to pay for any injuries caused by extreme sports, "because they knew what they were doing was dangerous." What about mothers becoming pregnant and childbirth care...because they knew what brings babies but engaged in a relationship irregardless, what about HIV patients, because they continue to have a relationship with high risk groups, it's their lifestyle that could have contributed to that. What about our brave soldiers? Refuse them treatment too because they chose to engage in a dangerous career. What about car accidents...shouldn't have been behind the wheel? Drug addicts, and unbelievably there's no mention of denying care for careless irresponsible young people (some older as well) who engage in binge drinking and other "lifestyle choices". Let them bleed to death in the street if they can't pay for their own care. And, I will never believe the majority of immigrants who come to this country to live, some to work, some, simply to milk the 'open policy' of our healthcare system. I simply cannot believe how the British public is being crushed, victimised, and bled financially til they can no longer support themselves while rich power hungry politicians continue to bask in their posh jobs, paid for by the very taxpayer they are destroying. I don't know a single diabetic who would not purchase food and drink that would help them control weight, who would not take advantage of health advisors who help them achieve as healthy a life style as possible, if it was affordable or available. And, not every Type II Diabetic is diabetic because of an "over-indulgent lifestyle". Many of them suffer diabetes like my husband does, because of a life changing injury that has made his mobility almost zero. And, Mr. Politician, I don't believe he has eaten a doughnut in the last twenty years!

CMoon ... I hope you'll put this wonderfully comprehensive list of lifestyle choice related illnesses into an email to the GP/politician in question. It might help him decide which sector of the population he wants to cull first. And you're right, it's not the immigrants who come to this country, the majority of whom are working legally and in professions and jobs that contribute to British society and taxes. But they're a great target for the Divide and Conquer strategy when all else fails to have the public at each others throats instead of at the Government's throat. I can't call this man a Doctor, because he doesn't deserve the title, but Phillip Lee should go undercover in any hospital, into the back offices where people don't huddle to chat round the water cooler because they don't have one to huddle round and they're kept so busy they haven't got time to be civil to each other, never mind hold a conversation.

They usually have a filthy grimy kettle on a slop laden surgical trolley that hasn't seen a dose of bleach in several months of Sundays. And a building site mess room would be cleaner than the average hospital secretariat. He should visit the medical records offices and secretariats and see the heavy manual work that the staff are expected to do without any equipment and he should notice the filth they're working in and then he should go to the immaculately carpeted and painted Executive Corridor Offices which are often empty, he should look at the labels on the clothing of the Executives who run our hospitals and ask himself how they can afford them while patients go hungry, diabetics are fed on carbs and other employees are working in almost third world conditions. And he should look at some of the patronising and emotionally blackmailing emails the staff get from the Exec office telling them how wonderful they are, how dedicated they are, how appreciated they are - and by the way would they consider volunteering to come in and CLEAN THE WARDS because the hospital hasn't passed it's hygiene exam for the CQC. Believe me, I'm not making this up, I write from personal experience. And it hasn't been pleasant experience.

 

[viviennem]

I agree compeletely, GraceK. Not to mention the half-million spent revamping a hospital office block in Leeds, only to have it stand empty for months until it was completely revamped again at similar costs because they'd changed their minds as to its use. The word "managers" seems inappropriate, somehow.

"The Moral Maze" (radio 4) last night dealt with this "lifestyle choice" vs NHS idea - our Dr Lee was referred to a number of times as a "locum" - so watch out for him, folks, he might be coming to a surgery near you soon! The conversation roamed over costly groups we could possibly stop treating. This included the elderly! - as medecine was now so good that people might live too long and cost too much!

No, they weren't serious - but it's a sobering thought.

As for being a burden - well, I've paid my taxes and NI since I was 18 - 45 years - and I have cost the health service very little, not even pregnancies, so I think I'm entitled to a bit back. I still don't cost them very much - 3 x Metformin daily, 50 test strips a month, meds for hypothyroid and BP, anti-inflammatories. I'm happy to have helped by funding others, too - just like I pay into education, though I have no children to benefit. It doesn't work like that - it's for everyone.

I seem to remember that our present "National Insurance" started life as a "National Health Insurance" weekly stamp. Or am I going ga-ga? They'll be culling me soon! :shock: :crazy: :lol:

Viv 8)

PS UKIP aren't comparable to the BNP as far as racism goes. I'd never vote for them 'cos I can't stand their leader - he strikes me as a smarmy so-and-so! My brother does, though - and he's very ant-immigration but absolutely Not a racist. Just anti-Europe.

 

[oconnorbp]

Well yes, a mindless, thoughtless, stupid idea, lets carry out a trial. Lets start with 'Bracknell', I'm sure the residents with Diabetes Type 2 who live in Bracknell will be thrilled to be the first. It might be an idea to remove 'Caring for Bracknell Constituency' from your website.

1)It would cost quite a bit of money to administer a database
2)Diabetes has risk of complications - could add further cost
3)You would have to carry out assessments - another cost there
4)You would have to hear appeals another cost there
5)You have people that couldn't afford the meds - creating a sub class
6)You will find people buying meds which haven't been approved
7)A black market in untested drugs from abroad
7a) Alcohol abuse, has a huge cost to the NHS £2.7bn annually.
7b) Yes step up education for people with diabetes 2, but don't make them 'outcasts' and don't tell them 'they shouldn't expect the best treatment'.

I can say I thought type 2 was classed as age onset diabetes, also steriod induced diabetes, so where does lifestyle come into it? OK there are people whose weight has brought on type2 but not all. This MP has no common sense or knowledge on the matter and should take his single grey cell for a rest.

 

[alta24]

Wow - I thought I was paying for my treatment anyway - let me see now , last month payslip : Category A NI code : I paid £375 , my employer paid £589. Not to mention the direct and indirect taxation I pay as well !

Yep I'm paying alright!!

 

[Mayfly]

Hi folks, don't have time to go through all posts but just wanted to add (and this is not directed ay anyone here, so if it sounds like I'm having a go, I'm arguing against the general idea of "Burden" and most certainly against Dr Phill Lee) :-

I want to fight the word "Burden" because I believe it gives people license to degrade us (just as fat jokes are considered acceptable because, well, it's all the fat person's fault, isn't it - why treat them as though they were human) and will make us an unheard minority.

I want to fight the word because I spent 6 useless years making myself worse by following the doctor's advice which was wrong. Yes, I slipped up, and I hated it but I certainly made huge efforts which did damage ONLY because I trusted the so called experts. I haven't sued yet, perhaps I should consider it. I will if they want to take away my free prescriptions because it's my fault.

I don't want to start the blame game with regards to treatment - I sometimes feel I should be thanking all the smokers and drinkers out there, who are probably supplying any kind of revenue which allows the NHS to continue. Do we penalise sky divers? Drivers? Christmas tree buyers? The list could be never ending......

 

[test_positive]

For anyone thinking of writing to Dr Lee, I have posted my letter at this thread in case it is of use:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35416

I took the opportunity to plug DCUK because I have learned so much from here versus the NHS. So thank you guys! :clap:

 

[viviennem]

Has anyone who emailed the man heard from him yet? apart from the standard automatic acknowledgement? I sent the same email to both his email addresses, got the automatic response from his Parliament address, nothing at all from the other one.

Yesterday I emailed Dr Dan Poulter, who's a Health Minister concerned with preventative medicine and who was spouting off about the subject on the "Today" programme. Nothing from him yet, either!

Viv 8)

 

[GraceK]

Has anyone who emailed the man heard from him yet? apart from the standard automatic acknowledgement? I sent the same email to both his email addresses, got the automatic response from his Parliament address, nothing at all from the other one.

Yesterday I emailed Dr Dan Poulter, who's a Health Minister concerned with preventative medicine and who was spouting off about the subject on the "Today" programme. Nothing from him yet, either!

Viv 8)

Nope. I didn't even get a response from the bot. :roll: I guess he's not talking to us then.

 

[Nikkig]

I got a reply from his secretary asking for my details so he could write to me......I'm still waiting.

 

[phil169]

same here Nikkig still waiting.