Endogenous Insulin and T2

It seems blindingly obvious to me that you only give insulin to people who don't make their own. Am I missing something in the argument for injecting it?

bulkbiker said:

Interesting new study out .. Insulin therapy might not be great or needed for most T2's

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871402119305715?via=ihub

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I think that's rather obvious without this study. It just makes me wonder why insulin production isn't measured before blindly prescribing insulin or Gliclazide as examples. It seems an all too familiar scenario that repeats itself on this forum where newly diagnosed T2's post about their frustration at the level of care coming from their hcp. Told they are T2, dietary advice is either non-existant or horrendously counter productive, and they leave with a leaflet and prescriptions. Off ya go, you're on your own.

So, lets make insulin resistance worse by piling more insulin into the body and focus completely on bg levels. Because treating the symptoms and not the causes makes so much sense. Yes, a bit of sarcasm, but how long will this approach continue? This is part of why it is considered a progressive chronic condition. Just throwing more fuel on the fire doesn't work.

I agree with all posters above, give Insulin to Type 1 diabetics, but only give Insulin or Gliclazide to Type2's after all other options have failed!

Any Type 2 who has measured the effects on BG of a high carb, high GI meal (or even a Banana) knows that the medical establishment's dietary advice is dangerous for Type 2's and at the very least suspect for the general population as a whole.

Treating the symptoms rather than the cause is something that pharmaceuticals do well. That is fine for acute conditions, but not for chronic ones - it is also extremely profitable since it creates dependency on the drugs since the patient never gets better - just the symptoms are just masked or relieved!

It would be interesting to hear from any T2`s using Insulin who would like to comment on this thread. Are they using Insulin after other options have failed? Have they been tested for their own Insulin production? Have they discussed with their doctor this question of giving Insulin to someone who may already make too much?

Mr_Pot said:

It would be interesting to hear from any T2`s using Insulin who would like to comment on this thread. Are they using Insulin after other options have failed? Have they been tested for their own Insulin production? Have they discussed with their doctor this question of giving Insulin to someone who may already make too much?

Click to expand...

Indeed, thinking about it surely this thread would be of more interest in the Type 2 with Insulin sub-forum rather than in here. Though perhaps it might cause some upset to any who have not had the chance to explore other options.

bulkbiker said:

Interesting new study out .. Insulin therapy might not be great or needed for most T2's

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1871402119305715?via=ihub

Click to expand...

Hi diagnosed type 2 three years ago last November after 10 weeks of endless changes in my medication and a stay in hospital because of keotosis i was given a insulin fast forward to may this year and I was given a test to see how much insulin my pancreas was producing , the result was my body was producing insulin but my antibodies were killing it off therefore the insulin helps replace what is being lost

I haven't posted here in over 5 years but had to take a look after I saw that posted on Twitter and the penny dropped that the Gliclazide I had been taking was potentially harming my sensitivity to insulin ‍

Mr_Pot said:

It would be interesting to hear from any T2`s using Insulin who would like to comment on this thread. Are they using Insulin after other options have failed? Have they been tested for their own Insulin production? Have they discussed with their doctor this question of giving Insulin to someone who may already make too much?

Click to expand...

I'm T2, had GD with my son in 01-02, but suspect I've been T2 since '98, just not diagnosed. After my pregnancy, my former primaary Dr started me on metformin and glipizide right off the bat. Then when I was complaining about my face losing sensation on the left side, I was told it was glucose by one former dr, and anxiety by another former dr. I was taught the diabetic exchange, complete with too many carbs, and didn't take it seriously as I didn't feel sick. Fast forward to taking more and more insulin and still having **** numbers. In Jan of this year, I went keto and brought my a1c from 9.7 to 5.4 as of October. While my insulin use has dropped drastically, my current endo has not given permission to stop using it, even as he states he would like to see me off it eventually. At my last appointment he recommended jardiance or invokana but I refused. After seeing this article and reading everyone's thoughts on this, I think I am going to experiment by not taking my basaglar for a week or so and see how my number are. I still follow the keto lifestyle and have had many, many meals where I've not needed to take humalog. I am not the best at keeping a food diary, but honestly I cannot say that I've noticed a difference between meals with insulin versus meals without. I range from 100-115 during much of the day, with fasting levels being about 95 and this with taking 34 units of basaglar daily. No, none of my drs ever tested me for insulin production. I requested a c-peptide test from my endo and he humored me and ordered it, but did not discuss the results with me. He is supportive of keto/carnivore which is great. I don't see him for another few months, so think that if this experiment is successful, I will continue it and present the results to him at my next appt.

Hi,
I have no personal experience of coming off Insulin (since Low Carb worked so well for me straight away), but what you plan makes sense, is not dangerous and should be fine so long as you keep testing enough.

Mr_Pot said:

It would be interesting to hear from any T2`s using Insulin who would like to comment on this thread. Are they using Insulin after other options have failed? Have they been tested for their own Insulin production? Have they discussed with their doctor this question of giving Insulin to someone who may already make too much?

Click to expand...

I am one of those using insulin after all else failed but a few months back had tests to see how much insulin i produce naturally and wow its plenty but without it bg levels soar so what to do is the question as metformin which would help is a no no with poor kidney function

I was a T2D on insulin. Admitted to hospital in 2012 with an hba1c of 125 and was immediately put on Novorapid and Lantus insulin because of my high Hba1c.

Was advised to base my meals and snacks on starchy carbs (70g starchy carbs every meal plus starchy carb snacks) and taught how to inject Novorapid to cover the carbs. This didn't go well and my health was deteriorating.

I was actually told by a diabetes nurse that the Yeo Valley organic full fat yoghurt that I loved was dangerous and that I must swap it for low fat rubbish yoghurt. In fact I must cut the fat and increase the starchy carbs in my diet..

Using insulin was so difficult - I think because my insulin resistance varied during the day. So quite a lot of roller coastering blood sugars.

In 2016 a client who was aware of my struggle with insulin lent me the Michael Mosley book and it made more sense than the advice I was being given by my Consultant at the hospital.

However it wasn't low enough carb for me and I had to drop to 20g a day maximum to make a difference. Luckily I found this site in early 2017.

then followed a roller coaster ride. I dropped the Novarapid after meals immediately but the Lantus was trickier. Sometimes I needed it or blood sugars rocketed other times it would cause hypos. I would be able to cope with no insulin for a couple of months and then - even on the 20g of carbs I would need a few units of Lantus for a while.

Things did improve and I have been off the Insulin completely since the latter part of 2017.

I must admit that I have learnt so much since becoming a member of this forum and couldn't have done it without this forum.

It hasn't been a linear journey. My insulin sensitivity has varied over this time even though I have stuck doggedly to the 20g carbs - almost as though my life depended on it. Which actually it probably has - or at the very least my feet have depended on it (my left foot is now low risk).

Now though I think insulin resistance is decreasing and I am very pleased with my numbers. Hba1c of 36. probably will be even lower next time. No insulin and no meds. Still on maximum 20g carbs and I can't see that changing anytime soon. But I absolutely love my low carb life and could not go back onto the carbs.

I’m on insulin as I am unable to tolerate Metformin anymore. As I am of child bearing age and will be trying to conceive soon, insulin was the only option for me. C peptide is still being discussed so I’ll pay for it myself. Insulin for me has actually been excellent and has made my periods regular. I think the C peptide tests should be the first step on the NHS when diagnosed with diabetes, let’s remember that almost 40% of T2D will turn out to be T1D.

I believe that the recent introduction and success of Ozempic, for those who have been through a lot of problems finding a reduction in blood sugar levels, before insulin, which should always be a last resort.
Because of circumstances, my better half couldn't get good control, hba1c levels too high, it was getting to the point where insulin would have been advised.
But this drug has changed this, the recent hba1c was close to non diabetic levels.
With small additional changes in her diet, her health has improved as well.
The doctor in the surgery, has thirty patients who have been given Ozempic, 90% have had significant impact on their hba1c levels.
There is other choices than going on insulin, hopefully more doctors are getting the message, that resorting to insulin is the final, final choice.

I have been on insulin as a T2 but not for long as it had no impact on my BS. I started off with 8 units and went up two units until my BS came down. At 180 units I gave up.
As others have said, I am told diabetes is a very serious condition but the information and support doesn't reflect this from HCP. I strikes me that it is more up to the individual to go on the journey and thankfully, have the support of this forum.