EU - In or Out + Poll.

[KevinPotts]

Free Movement and Costs to access the Single Market, whether we remain or leave are the pragmatic nub of the issue for me, hence my decision to vote remain.


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[catherinecherub]

The greatest uncertainty associated with leaving the EU is that no country has ever done it before, so no one can predict the exact result. Nevertheless, many have tried.

 

[KevinPotts]

Good point Catherine. Greenland did leave the European Economic Community and has done pretty well for itself.


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[Robinredbreast]

It's a hard one to call, I keep looking at different 'should we stay or go' and I am still undecided. Here's a link that might be helpful ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32810887 or

 

[Lamont D]

Listened to Will Young @Wirral rocks.

'
'Think I better leave right now'
'Before I get in any deeper'


There are so many songs titled

'Stay'

 

[Robinredbreast]

Listened to Will Young @Wirral rocks.

'
'Think I better leave right now'
'Before I get in any deeper'


There are so many songs titled

'Stay'

A good thread to start Nosher ?

 

[catherinecherub]

Hi all, I think I know which way I am voting in June but am interested in others opinions on whether they will be voting in / out / undecided and why.

Those people from other countries - have you heard much about this debate and what are your thoughts.

You could add a poll to this thread @Catlady19 as some people may have a preference but do not like to discuss it.

 

[Lamont D]

A good thread to start Nosher ?

There is already a thread about music on the games forum!

I am tickled trying to put songs to the various politicians for the in out campaign.

David Cameron! On polling day! 'Will you still love me tomorrow?'

 

[Catlady19]

You could add a poll to this thread @Catlady19 as some people may have a preference but do not like to discuss it.

Good idea!

 

[librarising]

Have you all seen the informative Brexit The Movie ? Informative as opposed to the scaremongering approach of our PM

Also I was surprised at the openness of the BBC program Paxman In Brussels : Who Really Rules Us

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07c6n58/paxman-in-brussels-who-really-rules-us

Six months ago our PM was saying we'd get on fine outside the EU. What happened ?

Call me sceptical

Geoff

 

[Bluetit1802]

Only 5 votes on the poll so far. Has everyone seen it?

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

So which ever way you look at it we're going to loose out! We stay, we are bound by the EU and as some perceive the country carries on down the toilet - we vote out, we could be ostracised and find our selves out in the cold all alone and we have to re-join with less favourable treaties?

I don't think that it's our EU membership that's responsible for our journey down the toilet. We're managing that our by voting for rich psychopaths to rule us - they want to stop interference from the EU giving us pesky 'rights'.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I don't think that it's our EU membership that's responsible for our journey down the toilet. We're managing that our by voting for rich psychopaths to rule us - they want to stop interference from the EU giving us pesky 'rights'.

and how can they stop all this interference without leaving?

 

[noblehead]

The greatest uncertainty associated with leaving the EU is that no country has ever done it before, so no one can predict the exact result. Nevertheless, many have tried.

I'm sure many countries will watch with interest if we do decide to leave.

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

I don't often quote Winston Churchill, he's a darling of the right-wing in many ways, and was an unapologetic racist, but he did sometimes come up with sense:

In his famous Zurich speech of 1946, Churchill said, ‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.’

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

and how can they stop all this interference without leaving?

It's only 'interference' in the sense that a democratic institution makes laws. Our Government 'interferes' in my life with rules I don't always agree with - and if you think the EU is undemocratic - you should look to our own system, where a government is in charge with a small minority of the vote - backed up by an unelected house of lords. Practically no-one in Salford voted for them, but still they're in charge and responsible for the homeless on the streets, the disabled dying when they're being forced back to work, the sick not getting the treatment they need because the NHS is being sold off.

If the EU 'interferes' to stop any of that, bring it on.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I'm sure many countries will watch with interest if we do decide to leave.

I am certain they will. The British are not alone in their worries about Federalism and Imperialism.

 

[hankjam]

No it is a good website but the problem is, no matter where I look, I cannot get satisfactory answers.

It's very like the Scottish Referendum... no one ever came out and said what the downside would be of the position they supported and so two sides yell at each other is mis-information..

 

[librarising]

I don't often quote Winston Churchill, he's a darling of the right-wing in many ways, and was an unapologetic racist, but he did sometimes come up with sense:

In his famous Zurich speech of 1946, Churchill said, ‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.’

In the same speech he said

"Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America, and I trust Soviet Russia - for then indeed all would be well - must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine."

That sounds like he wanted a U.S.E. separate from Great Britain. He wanted France and Germany to lead the way. He has spoken elsewhere of choosing between Europe and the sea, and opting for the sea.

Geoff

 

[doolallylady]

There is a lot of scaremongering going on from both sides but the worst are the Remain side. About the only things they haven't said (yet) Leaving would cause are flood, famine and pestilence!!! At least the 'Leave' side has a more optimistic view of our future.

One of the worst & most insulting things I heard said a few days ago (I can't remember the 'lady' who was speaking) was that it was the more intelligent, successful people that would vote 'Remain' and the less well educated would vote to 'Leave'.

Why were we offered a vote if it was such a bad idea with such disastrous consequences? I know the Tories did not expect to win the last election and they may have been caught by a promise they never thought they'd have to fulfil. Only a few months ago, before the so-called renegotiation, David Cameron was sure/optimistic that Britain would thrive if we left the EU. Indeed he stated that he would lead the 'Leave' campaign if he didn't get what he wanted and we, as a country deserved. What happened? Was that just empty posturing for the sake of the people he was making demands of?

We were going to be doomed if we left the IRM, we left and were better off for it.
We were foolish if we didn't ditch the pound and join the Euro. Well weren't we proved to be fools?

Many of the same people/organisations who prophesised just the 2 items above, are the same that are warning us of all the dire consequences if we don't listen to them this time.

There are a few things that I am positive of if we remain:

There will be a lot more people trying to live in this country.
Our services will be stretched more & more.
Our demands and wants will be ignored by the EU parliament.
More of our own laws will be over-ruled.
We will have less money coming back than we have now, simply because of the enlargement programme. (Has anyone noticed that new members are usually poor/er countries that need to take rather than give?)
The face of the UK will be forever changed.

I am positive that a country as wealthy, competitive and competent as the UK will survive and succeed if we leave. Things will probably be bumpy for a couple of years, but who can guarantee that it won't if we stay?
The future is uncertain either way, but I would rather us being in charge of our own destiny and not be totally enslaved by the diktats of the EU parliament.

The rest of the EU hierarchy is terrified that we will leave and succeed, because that would prove to other countries that they can do it as well, leading to the ultimate demise of the EU.

I don't particularly want David Cameron to resign if he loses the vote, but I don't think he would be the right man to lead the negotiations with the EU after the vote.

I voted NO in the original & subsequent vote (73 & 75) and nothing in the intervening years has convinced me that I should have voted YES then.

Sorry for the long post and I hope I haven't sent you all to sleep