Extreme fatigue after eating

[nabilla]

Hi, I've noticed that I become very tired right after eating. I'm on a lowish carb med diet and am using a BGM before eating and two hours after and this seems to be keeping me in a good range. Is it just old age, could it be the prediabetes, or is that unlikely??

 

[Lamont D]

Hi, I've noticed that I become very tired right after eating. I'm on a lowish carb med diet and am using a BGM before eating and two hours after and this seems to be keeping me in a good range. Is it just old age, could it be the prediabetes, or is that unlikely??

Hi @nabilla ,
Couple of questions if you don't mind.

You say lowish carb, but could it be still too much?
The reason I say this. It could be similar to a sugar crash or some hormonal reason for the symptoms after food.
What were your CGM readings Pre meal and two hours after?
How long after food do you feel symptoms?
I agree with the age deterioration, it can effect your body's ability to manage prediabetes.
Best wishes.

 

[nabilla]

Hi @nabilla ,
Couple of questions if you don't mind.

You say lowish carb, but could it be still too much?
The reason I say this. It could be similar to a sugar crash or some hormonal reason for the symptoms after food.
What were your CGM readings Pre meal and two hours after?
How long after food do you feel symptoms?
I agree with the age deterioration, it can effect your body's ability to manage prediabetes.
Best wishes.

Hi, the min carbs is 50g a day and max 90g. It's all weighed. It's mainly medditeranean. I hope it's not still too high as I tried keto a while.back before I knew about being prediabetic and I really didn't like it despite being a total foodie and someone who is well able to follow and stick to a food plan.
Last readings were 5.4 before eating and 7.2 two hours after starting the meal.
Ive also had recent readings where it's 5.4 before and 5.4 two hours after eating.
I'm going to get a trial of a continuous monitor.
I'm also B12 deficient and wondering if that's what's pushed me into the prediabetes range.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi, the min carbs is 50g a day and max 90g. It's all weighed. It's mainly medditeranean. I hope it's not still too high as I tried keto a while.back before I knew about being prediabetic and I really didn't like it despite being a total foodie and someone who is well able to follow and stick to a food plan.
Last readings were 5.4 before eating and 7.2 two hours after starting the meal.
Ive also had recent readings where it's 5.4 before and 5.4 two hours after eating.
I'm going to get a trial of a continuous monitor.
I'm also B12 deficient and wondering if that's what's pushed me into the prediabetes range.

Your readings and approach to it all is very, very good and sensible, logical and clearly working bar those symptoms you describe.
I could only think, to change the higher carb part of the meal you got the symptoms, but I'm guessing.
As would be the B12 question.
I'm not sure but I have read that some have issues affecting them with B12 deficiency.
hopefully, someone can help with that.

 

[nabilla]

Your readings and approach to it all is very, very good and sensible, logical and clearly working bar those symptoms you describe.
I could only think, to change the higher carb part of the meal you got the symptoms, but I'm guessing.
As would be the B12 question.
I'm not sure but I have read that some have issues affecting them with B12 deficiency.
hopefully, someone can help with that.

Thanks. I'll see what happens when I use the continuous glucose monitor. Also, it may be related to the B12 deficiency and anaemia I have at the moment. I'm pretty tired a lot of the time, but it flares up after meals.

 

[Lamont D]

Thanks. I'll see what happens when I use the continuous glucose monitor. Also, it may be related to the B12 deficiency and anaemia I have at the moment. I'm pretty tired a lot of the time, but it flares up after meals.

What I found improved my energy levels was reducing the carbs as much as I could.
Without the carbs, my health improvement was just brilliant.

I also found after, a diagnostic test, that I could fast for a few days, without any side effects.
Might not work for you.
But I now use intermittent fasting to help with the control of my condition.

There are options, we are individuals, and the treatment should be tailored to our individual requirements and circumstances.

best wishes.

 

[nabilla]

What I found improved my energy levels was reducing the carbs as much as I could.
Without the carbs, my health improvement was just brilliant.

I also found after, a diagnostic test, that I could fast for a few days, without any side effects.
Might not work for you.
But I now use intermittent fasting to help with the control of my condition.

There are options, we are individuals, and the treatment should be tailored to our individual requirements and circumstances.

best wishes.

I am going to try fasting when I've addressed the B12 deficiency and anemia and have recovered (I had pneumonia recently). I think I'll enjoy fasting. However, I hope I don't need to reduce my carbs. I know other people love it, but I truly did not enjoy it and can't see myself doing it for life. To be honest I'm still hoping this raised HBA1c is just to do with the B12 deficiency. If it's not, I'll remain low carb and I do actually quite like the diet. If I am indeed prediabetic and not low carb enough, I think I'd still stay low carb, up my exercise and go on the drugs if I had to. However, I'll take it a day at a time for now.
Out of interest, if I wanted to do an experiment on the keto diet and my sugar levels, do you have any idea how long I'd need to be in ketosis to see if that makes me feel better?

 

[nabilla]

I just tested again. 5.3 before eating and 6.2 two hours after. Total of 91g of carbs today, with no starchy veg or rice/potatoes/pasta as usual. To me, that indicates my sugars are well controlled by the diet. So I'm guessing the tiredness is something else?

 

[Lamont D]

I am going to try fasting when I've addressed the B12 deficiency and anemia and have recovered (I had pneumonia recently). I think I'll enjoy fasting. However, I hope I don't need to reduce my carbs. I know other people love it, but I truly did not enjoy it and can't see myself doing it for life. To be honest I'm still hoping this raised HBA1c is just to do with the B12 deficiency. If it's not, I'll remain low carb and I do actually quite like the diet. If I am indeed prediabetic and not low carb enough, I think I'd still stay low carb, up my exercise and go on the drugs if I had to. However, I'll take it a day at a time for now.
Out of interest, if I wanted to do an experiment on the keto diet and my sugar levels, do you have any idea how long I'd need to be in ketosis to see if that makes me feel better?

As you have already reduced your carbs and getting good results.
And your portion sizes.
And doing away with the starch. The next bit of experimenting I would try (and I have) is wether grains have that effect on your symptoms.
Grains can cause similar symptoms in quite a few of us.
Not only the gluten, also what is processed to the grain.
It is no coincidence that Wheat is in bold letters on the labelling.
I have wheat intolerance, but not gluten intolerance.

That is why I suggested intermittent fasting.
That is just missing meals.
With the reduction of carbs and portion sizes, missing certain meals should not be a problem.
For me, and it has become a bit of a bugbear, I found since diagnosis and going low carb, trying different ways to control my BG levels. The need to eat four of five times a day became redundant.
Keeping to set mealtimes, seemed illogical, according to most endocrinologists, eat when you are hungry not because it is lunch, breakfast, dinner, supper etc.
so usually.
I eat after fasting overnight. Anytime in the afternoon, and have my last food around 7pm.
This is because I have to make sure my BG levels are back in normal levels before I go to bed around midnight (ish).
This works for me.
how you control your BG levels is your choice.

I would say, I would as much as possible stay away from meds, but if you have to, ensure, it does benefit you.
In my opinion there is no need for diabetic drugs as yet.

Exercise, this is individual again. You can only do, what you can do.
Walking is brilliant for our age group, if you can. See what I mean?
Swimming, light physical over time, stretching, yoga, and so on.
If your physical health is decent, a little more, spread out during the week is fine.

Hope this helps.
Best wishes.

 

[Popsickle12]

As you have already reduced your carbs and getting good results.
And your portion sizes.
And doing away with the starch. The next bit of experimenting I would try (and I have) is wether grains have that effect on your symptoms.
Grains can cause similar symptoms in quite a few of us.
Not only the gluten, also what is processed to the grain.
It is no coincidence that Wheat is in bold letters on the labelling.
I have wheat intolerance, but not gluten intolerance.

That is why I suggested intermittent fasting.
That is just missing meals.
With the reduction of carbs and portion sizes, missing certain meals should not be a problem.
For me, and it has become a bit of a bugbear, I found since diagnosis and going low carb, trying different ways to control my BG levels. The need to eat four of five times a day became redundant.
Keeping to set mealtimes, seemed illogical, according to most endocrinologists, eat when you are hungry not because it is lunch, breakfast, dinner, supper etc.
so usually.
I eat after fasting overnight. Anytime in the afternoon, and have my last food around 7pm.
This is because I have to make sure my BG levels are back in normal levels before I go to bed around midnight (ish).
This works for me.
how you control your BG levels is your choice.

I would say, I would as much as possible stay away from meds, but if you have to, ensure, it does benefit you.
In my opinion there is no need for diabetic drugs as yet.

Exercise, this is individual again. You can only do, what you can do.
Walking is brilliant for our age group, if you can. See what I mean?
Swimming, light physical over time, stretching, yoga, and so on.
If your physical health is decent, a little more, spread out during the week is fine.

Hope this helps.
Best wishes.

 

[Popsickle12]

Good luck @nabilla. You certainly have a lot of support here.

 

[nabilla]

Hi, when you do intermittent fasting, do you lose weight? My BMI is now 20.2. perhaps there's a way to fast that ensures you don't lose weight? I imagine I'll lose a bit more weight when I start getting more mobile again after being ill. I do think I'll.enjoy the discipline of fasting and I can see the benefits of it even beyond diabetes, but I do want to make sure I don't lose much more weight.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi, when you do intermittent fasting, do you lose weight? My BMI is now 20.2. perhaps there's a way to fast that ensures you don't lose weight? I imagine I'll lose a bit more weight when I start getting more mobile again after being ill. I do think I'll.enjoy the discipline of fasting and I can see the benefits of it even beyond diabetes, but I do want to make sure I don't lose much more weight.

I have had a lot of difficulty in maintaining a low weight.
I am always battling it.
However, to maintain weight, just up the protein, with good fats.
Don't be drawn into increasing the carbs.
And increasing muscle tone, helps with not losing weight. With the increased exercise.
Let us know how you get on.

 

[MrsA2]

Tired and weak is a symptom of b12 deficiency
So NHS says

Vitamin B12 or folate deficiency anaemia - Symptoms

Read about the symptoms of vitamin B12 or folate deficiency anaemia, which usually develop gradually, but can worsen if the condition goes untreated.

www.nhs.uk

 

[nabilla]

Tired and weak is a symptom of b12 deficiency
So NHS says

Vitamin B12 or folate deficiency anaemia - Symptoms

Read about the symptoms of vitamin B12 or folate deficiency anaemia, which usually develop gradually, but can worsen if the condition goes untreated.

www.nhs.uk

Yes. My GP unfortunately gave me B12 tablets, which are only suitable for people who don't get enough B12 via diet (usually vegans). This means I can't get proper tests done u til I'm clear.of B12 tablets for 4 months. I do think I'm tired in general because of that, as well as the anemia I have at the moment, but it gets worse after eating. Maybe just the blood getting directed to my stomach to digest leaving me tired because I'm already low in iron/b12

 

[Outlier]

Strange decision from your GP, as if your B12 readings are still low despite you taking pills, it would indicate that you might be better off to have either a higher dose or a different way of taking it. And you can't find out unless you have a blood test.

 

[nabilla]

Strange decision from your GP, as if your B12 readings are still low despite you taking pills, it would indicate that you might be better off to have either a higher dose or a different way of taking it. And you can't find out unless you have a blood test.

You can't test people for B12 while they're supplementing. I think it would have made more sense if she'd said let's retest in X amount of months and in the meantime done an intrinsic factor test and full iron panel. I'm really hoping that when I get my B12 sorted, I'll no longer be described as prediabetic as false high HBA1c can be caused by B12 deficiency

 

[Chris24Main]

@nabilla - do you mind if I ask if you have any objections to meat products - meat, eggs, dairy are all good sources of VB12 - I'm sure you will know that, so I guess I'm assuming that you are avoiding these.. which is fine, no agenda; I'm just curious...

on fasting - I've become a big fan of fasting, and I truly believe in the theory (autophagy, or essentially giving your body a chance to repair) - but it can take some effort/ planning and it definitely isn't for everyone, nor is there a "best" way to do it.. only what works for you; and you should be prepared for some time of getting used to whatever you try (once you feel well, of course) before you think about whether it makes you feel better or not.

 

[nabilla]

Strange decision from your GP, as if your B12 readings are still low despite you taking pills, it would indicate that you might be better off to have either a higher dose or a different way of taking it. And you can't find out unless you have a blood test.

The issue is that it is not possible to tell if your absorption of B12 has increased simply because you have a higher B12 serum level. If they tested me straight after taking B12 tablets for two months, it would likely show a higher serum level. But this would not relate to my absorption of B12. It would be a false high. So I have chosen to stop taking the tablets. I'll get retested in 4 months. If my levels are still low or have become lower, I will request B12 injections which are absorbed differently from the tablets. This is probably very off topic for a diabetes forum. However, there is a link between low B12 levels and false high HBA1c levels, so there is a sort of link. Also Metformin (which I'm obvs not on as I'm only prediabetic) can cause B12 deficiency.

 

[Chris24Main]

What is a false high HbA1c ? that's a new one for me.
Interested rather than challenging what you say, I'd just thought it was what it is. There is a train of thought that if your blood cells are living longer (for example on a Ketogenic, therefore lower inflammatory, regime) then a given test would effectively take cells from a longer period, therefore would have more A1c products than would be expected in an average 3 month blood cell life period, so inflating the result - is that what you mean?
I would have thought in that scenario, a patient would be expected to have higher vit B12 though ... another thing to dig into...

[edit - didn't take long, and I totally retract - clearly a B12 deficiency itself causes longer red blood cell life, so gives that same effect, now to dig into why...]