Fat Fast Starting Monday 3rd August

Ladies and gents

Gosh. Where to start. Good article @Pasha. A nutrional grad with a brain. @Merrylizard1314 in that piece there is a reference to the diet doctor. He's started charging to access the most current info on his site. But I do believe the access for experiment about trying to knock himself out of ketosis is still free. Basically he went on a swedes binge involving lots of alcohol and pizza......

At your levels and sensibility I'd very much doubt you could knock yourself out.

53 miles is quite some. I signed up for that one as it is on home soil and know most of the route as it on mine and the dog's stomping ground. Most people will opt for the shorter course which is 18 miles and about 95% of all are walkers. Very few are runners. I might be the only run/walker and will keep to that plan with the aim of max 4 mph inclusive of compulsory breaks at the various check points around the course.

That ll be the last weekend of Aug. So 5 weeks to go. And being up in London so much recently has had a serious impact on my milage.

@Brunneria yep. For me personally it's a no brainer. I'll try and attach a pic but have probably twaddle on to much so it won't upload as on the mobile. If that's the case will upload below.

@nomistheman I understand what you are saying but you don't need to test that much or do you? Relax max!

Nope attachments playing up will have to upload pic when next on pc.

@ Pasha, thank you for the article and diagram.
The part about how ketosis helps ameliorate many adverse conditions, even skin balance,was very interesting.

Once again I am fully awake at 4am.
Usually I just read, or lurk about, or undertake small domestic chores of the quieter kind, but now, having watched Dr. Stephen Phinney's talk on NK, I am wondering if my sleep curtailments are a consequence of ketosis. And if so, is this a Good Thing or not?
Later this week I will see a Cardiologist, for a review, and I was thinking that I might ask him that question, however I believe that I can guess at his answer and I am having a little wager with myself as to the degree of horror, on a scale of 1-10, that he will show.

Hmmm I'm tempted to try a fat fast but I'm not sure I can commit to it. In other words I'm not sure how long I could do it for. lol. Maybe I'll just sit and watch you guys.

It isn't very difficult to do, except for getting the proportions of protein, fat and carbs right. The aim is to get as close to 90% of calories from fat as possible, for from 3-5 days. (Not recommended to go beyond 5 days.)
I think that Baruney, nomistheman and myself, have almost decided to have bulletproof coffee in the mornings, as that is sustaining, and a simple lunch, (Fat Bombs have been mentioned) with a more elaborately prepared meal in the late afternoon or evening. Plenty of water to drink, of course, and tea.
So, not an alarming regime, and not for long, only 5 days.

Merrylizard1314 said:

Once again I am fully awake at 4am.
Usually I just read, or lurk about, or undertake small domestic chores of the quieter kind, but now, having watched Dr. Stephen Phinney's talk on NK, I am wondering if my sleep curtailments are a consequence of ketosis. And if so, is this a Good Thing or not?
Later this week I will see a Cardiologist, for a review, and I was thinking that I might ask him that question, however I believe that I can guess at his answer and I am having a little wager with myself as to the degree of horror, on a scale of 1-10, that he will show.

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I usually sleep better in ketosis!
I used to have really bad sleep disruption during my 'hell' time. My blood glucose levels were the cause of it!
Stress or something related could be the cause!

Hi, @nosher8355, everyone is a bit different, I suppose, as regards sleep.
My intention is, to try for an extra-early night tonight, and see how that goes.
It may just be that dawn is a bit earlier each morning.and I am just anticipating it by two hours. In which case, if I try for earlier bedtime, I will still manage some good hours of sleep.

Good luck everyone!

Hola @Merrylizard1314 Is the 'lack' of sleep or probably best described as less sleep a concern or not - hard to tell. If it's not a worry then surely a good thing?

@Brunneria at work today so this was the attachment or lightbulb moment if you like for me.

Bonjour @Baruney, usually I don't mind staying up late, and I always get up early anyway, what I dislike is a new situation arising, where my actual hours of being asleep shorten into non-existence.
I had insomnia as a child at school, and I am just taking steps to avoid total sleep deprivation.
So, not worried, hypervigilant!

@nomistheman, "shooting through" is an expression used in Australia to characterise the actions of someone leaving an unpalatable situation, eg. Couldn't pay the rent, so he shot through,or, "nah, mate, can't eat all them carbs at this party, think I'll just be shooting through, mate!"

Bulletproof , or what!

Just found out how to take a screenshot. Can't seem to get it on here though.


I have been watching one of Dr. Jason Fung's seminars, where he briefly discusses Fat Fasting, and I was considering whether anyone else had thought to do intermittent Fat Fasting, with water fasting.

JF says that in intermittent fasting, the body's insulin sensitivity increases, and insulin expression reduces, which is what we want, while muscle mass is preserved, and fat stores are used for energy.
It occurred to me, to look at whether intermittent fasting in this way, would actually see insulin resistance reduce more, which would mean that T2D was getting better, as JF puts it.
With an HbA1c at September's end, it seems like an ideal time for an experiment n= 1.

Interesting, I will just observe though. I am mid marathon training so I don't want to make changes to my diet (which is working fine for me) at the moment.

I'm very excited to watch this ketogenic/high fat effect on diabetes experiment!

Just for interest, one thing that puzzles me, and drew me to this thread, is, in terms of therapeutic ketogenic diets for diabetes - what is the time frame for it? I can't seem to find time periods anywhere online. Is this because it is as yet largely unchartered territory? Or is it two months? Or is it two years, like for epilepsy (if I have remembered rightly.) Or is it like, forever? Or? (I've been wondering about getting into it/more myself. )

Hi, @AloeSvea, Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney have written a book ,called The Art and Science of Low Carb Living, which I heartily recommend.
The Fat Fast is, I think, the therapeutic part, as it can get you into ketosis quickly, in 3- 5days, but the ketogenic low carb way of eating(WOE) in which the body uses its own fat stores for energy, has no time limit and can become quite normal, only requiring tweaking from time to time to slow, stop, or continue weight loss as required.
The principle behind the Fat burning is that while the body is using carbohydrates for fuel, it does not burn fat. The ketosis allows fat to be used as the main source of fuel, as the body can make the small amounts of glucose needed for some functions, through the liver.

Merrylizard1314 said:

Hi, @AloeSvea, Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney have written a book ,called The Art and Science of Low Carb Living, which I heartily recommend.
The Fat Fast is, I think, the therapeutic part, as it can get you into ketosis quickly, in 3- 5days, but the ketogenic low carb way of eating(WOE) in which the body uses its own fat stores for energy, has no time limit and can become quite normal, only requiring tweaking from time to time to slow, stop, or continue weight loss as required.
The principle behind the Fat burning is that while the body is using carbohydrates for fuel, it does not burn fat. The ketosis allows fat to be used as the main source of fuel, as the body can make the small amounts of glucose needed for some functions, through the liver.

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Many thanks for that Merrylizard. It's very interesting indeed.

Merrylizard1314 said:

Just found out how to take a screenshot. Can't seem to get it on here though.


I have been watching one of Dr. Jason Fung's seminars, where he briefly discusses Fat Fasting, and I was considering whether anyone else had thought to do intermittent Fat Fasting, with water fasting.

JF says that in intermittent fasting, the body's insulin sensitivity increases, and insulin expression reduces, which is what we want, while muscle mass is preserved, and fat stores are used for energy.
It occurred to me, to look at whether intermittent fasting in this way, would actually see insulin resistance reduce more, which would mean that T2D was getting better, as JF puts it.
With an HbA1c at September's end, it seems like an ideal time for an experiment n= 1.

Click to expand...

Hola

Not entirely - sure think a 16:8 might work. I am here there and everywhere because of work next week so it going to be interesting! Ditched the idea of sweet FBs as don't like what I've read so far on sweetners and haven't got the time to research properly beforehand.

Looks like bullet proof coffee, eggs, mayo or cream chesse and Macadamia nut are going to be my saviour - will have to make up little pickniks so not quite the extensive experiement I envisaged.

BTW - here's the article I mentioned http://www.dietdoctor.com/final-report-two-months-of-strict-lchf-and-ketone-monitoring

Like I said I can't see you blowing out like this (that's his blow out not mine! - Not enough wine for me.):

Lobster weekend
Here are the non-strict LCHF foodstuffs I consumed during the weekend of 28-30th September:

• Three small helpings of pasta
• One “Digestive” biscuit
• A total of 7 slices of bread!
• Some orange juice x 2
• Some chocolate (70% cocoa content)
• Liberal helpings of nuts
• Liberal helpings of sorbet and honeymelon
• Yoghurt with müsli and apple
• An unspecified number of wine glasses (many)
• A pizza!

Baruney said:

Hola

Not entirely - sure think a 16:8 might work. I am here there and everywhere because of work next week so it going to be interesting! Ditched the idea of sweet FBs as don't like what I've read so far on sweetners and haven't got the time to research properly beforehand.

Looks like bullet proof coffee, eggs, mayo or cream chesse and Macadamia nut are going to be my saviour - will have to make up little pickniks so not quite the extensive experiement I envisaged.

BTW - here's the article I mentioned http://www.dietdoctor.com/final-report-two-months-of-strict-lchf-and-ketone-monitoring

Like I said I can't see you blowing out like this (that's his blow out not mine! - Not enough wine for me.):

Lobster weekend
Here are the non-strict LCHF foodstuffs I consumed during the weekend of 28-30th September:

• Three small helpings of pasta
• One “Digestive” biscuit
• A total of 7 slices of bread!
• Some orange juice x 2
• Some chocolate (70% cocoa content)
• Liberal helpings of nuts
• Liberal helpings of sorbet and honeymelon
• Yoghurt with müsli and apple
• An unspecified number of wine glasses (many)
• A pizza!

Click to expand...

DEFINE "LIBERAL" and not in the political context!!!

AloeSvea said:

Many thanks for that Merrylizard. It's very interesting indeed.

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Yep looks like our man down under has covered the basics. Best way to tell how deep you are into ketosis is to test your blood ketones. The more in the optimum range you are the better as far as I'm concerned and a lot will depend on your starting point. @Merrylizard1314 is already there and I'm sure nom is not that far behind. Haven't done my blood ketones for a while as I only have a limited supply left but will publish on the start.

Volek and Phinney's follow on book - The art and science of low carbohydrate performance - again thoroughly recommended state it can take up to 6 weeks to become fully 'keto adpated' - again it really amounts to your starting point as shown in the above comment about the diet doctor knocking himself out and then taking about a week to get back in.

Pasha said:

DEFINE "LIBERAL" and not in the political context!!!

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I think he means Conservative in a rounded sense as opposed to excessive in a grounded sense but didn't want to Labour the point too much.

We could put it out to vote though if you like?