fed up with liver dump grrrrr

[newest]

bg's have been more under control recently, have been keeping to allowances of food ratio's blousing correctly for all meals, last night4.8 at bedtime, didn't have anything as I was full up, tell a lie I had a coffee, went to bed, had a fantastic night's sleep, undisturbed, woke feeling really refreshed, did bg and bang 16.6?????. so so so fed up, I feel what's the point in doing everything by the book, then my liver try's to give me a helping hand by dumping what I don't want it too. big sigh, rant over,lol.

 

[13lizanne]

So frustrating, but I believe that I read that it's the before and after meal readings that give an accurate picture of how stable our blood sugar is? Yours OK?

P.s. love your avatar ☺

 

[JenniferW]

... I feel what's the point in doing everything by the book, then my liver try's to give me a helping hand by dumping what I don't want it too. big sigh, rant over,lol.

My FBG remains higher than any of the others in the day, and on a thread where I was groaning about this, someone pointed me to this website, and I thought this was helpful (from about half-way down the page):

http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/understanding-fasting-blood-sugar.html

The value most of us would find much more helpful in assessing our health is not fasting blood sugar but something else: the number of hours a day our blood sugar spends elevated over the level known to cause complications, which is roughly 140 mg/dl (7.7 mmol/L).

A person can wake up with a FPG of 130 mg/dl (7.2 mmol/L), but if it drops after breakfast and most hours of the day are spent with blood sugars that remain under 120 mg/dl, the person can expect years of complication-free living.

In contrast, a person may wake with a normal FPG of 98 mg/dl (5.4 mmol/L) but end up spending the next 14 hours with blood sugars well over 170 mg/dl (9.4 mmol/L). That person is seriously at risk for heart disease, diabetic nerve damage, kidney damage, and retina damage.

So when you assess your own fasting blood sugar, the question you want to ask is this: How many hours a day am I spending with my blood sugar in the range that causes complications? Not, necessarily, how can I lower my fasting blood sugar?​

 

[Aginoth]

Would be worth finding out when the dump occurs during the night; will mean a night of waking to test every couple of hours to catch it.

I'd say 4.8 is a little low to go to sleep on, could be that you are going hypo in your sleep and your liver is overcompensating.

Personally I aim for 6.5 before bed, which will give me a 3.8-5.2 upon waking 8 hours later, I then get a 1 or 2 point liver dump within 15 minutes of waking which I correct with 1 unit of fast acting insulin or I have my breakfast yoghurt straight away with a dose of fast acting of around 3-5 units. If I go to bed below 6.0 I will usually wake up higher than 7.0 -8.0; through experimental testing I have found that this is caused by a liver dump at around 3am as my BG will drop below 3.0 in the night.

YMMV but worth checking to find out.

Should also read http://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose/dawn-phenomenon.html

 

[newest]

I think I may try the testing through the night this weekend as I have time off from work, I did wonder wether my bg was a bit low for bedtime, but was so full , I will read those items when I get back from work tonight, thanks for the input, just so frustrating when they peak, I feel like a child who supposedly has been naughty but hasn't done,lol, love your avitor too.

 

[newest]

So frustrating, but I believe that I read that it's the before and after meal readings that give an accurate picture of how stable our blood sugar is? Yours OK?

P.s. love your avatar ☺

I don't test inbetween meals as I'm working most days and don't have the time, but did do when I was off, always high after 2hrs no matter what I ate, but by four to five they were in range, I was told that as long as they were in range by that time it was ok? is that wrong?

 

[13lizanne]

I don't test inbetween meals as I'm working most days and don't have the time, but did do when I was off, always high after 2hrs no matter what I ate, but by four to five they were in range, I was told that as long as they were in range by that time it was ok? is that wrong?

I think if you read @JenniferW and @Aginoth s replies to you again and click on the links she/ he provided you'll get the best advice and answer to your questions. Good luck

 

[13lizanne]

What avatar @newest ? That's a photo of me first thing in the morning lol

 

[graj0]

I think I may try the testing through the night this weekend as I have time off from work, I did wonder wether my bg was a bit low for bedtime, but was so full , I will read those items when I get back from work tonight, thanks for the input, just so frustrating when they peak, I feel like a child who supposedly has been naughty but hasn't done,lol, love your avitor too.

I recently discovered that my surgery have Constant Glucose Monitoring devices to loan to patients. That could be better than waking up to monitor, worth asking anyway.
I believe some people have a small quantity of carb before bedtime to elevate the BG ever so slightly and this prevents liver dumping. Might be worth looking into. My dad just has a digestive biscuit with a cuppa about 10pm, he doesn't seem to have the same morning highs that he used to. I get the impression that it's not an exact science and everyone is going to have different experiences. I have mornings when it's high and mornings when it's low.

 

[JenniferW]

... I believe some people have a small quantity of carb before bedtime...

I've tried various things as 'supper' - and nothing so far seems to make any difference. But I really have no routine over what time I eat my evening meal, and what time I go to bed, so this is not exactly an accurate science for me!

 

[Daibell]

Hi. I can only guess that your Basal insulin dose is too low? Have you tried increasing it by 1 unit then leaving it at that for 2-3 days and checking morning blood sugar again? If your blood sugar hasn't come down enough increase by another unit and leave it at that for 2-3 days measuring frequently. The target is to be between 5 -7 mmol. If you do this ensure that you test regularly to avoid a hypo. If in doubt seek advice from your DN. Overnight liver dumps should not affect blood sugar by the amount you say.

 

[LucySW]

Newest, Can you ask to use a CMG for two weeks? It certainly sounds like a liver dump, but if it is, you'll just need to take a correction dose on waking and testing.

It could be too little night time basal, of course, but it might not be as complicated as that, and the only way you'll find out is with a CMG or a Libre.

Best of luck.

 

[newest]

I recently discovered that my surgery have Constant Glucose Monitoring devices to loan to patients. That could be better than waking up to monitor, worth asking anyway.
I believe some people have a small quantity of carb before bedtime to elevate the BG ever so slightly and this prevents liver dumping. Might be worth looking into. My dad just has a digestive biscuit with a cuppa about 10pm, he doesn't seem to have the same morning highs that he used to. I get the impression that it's not an exact science and everyone is going to have different experiences. I have mornings when it's high and mornings when it's low.

that's interesting cos I also have different readings, if I have had digestive biscuit before bed rather than light cheese biscuit, readings are deffo different. will experiment, thanks for the input, as all individual experiencences are different

Newest, Can you ask to use a CMG for two weeks? It certainly sounds like a liver dump, but if it is, you'll just need to take a correction dose on waking and testing.

It could be too little night time basal, of course, but it might not be as complicated as that, and the only way you'll find out is with a CMG or a Libre.

Best of luck.

I have just now gone back on my bg records and found this has happened once a week for the past few months, didn't realise it, very weird, but then my body never does anything in the right order,lol, I will contact my dsn Monday, thanks for your advice,