FIBRE: SHOULD I TAKE A SUPPLEMENT?

Skyrider

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49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Since reducing my carb intake, I'm finding it difficult to get enough fibre in my diet.

I'm aware of various foods which have a good level of fibre, but it's difficult to incorporate enough of them into my diet to reach the desired level.

I'm wondering if I should add a fibre supplement to my diet?

If so, which one(s)? Soluble/insoluble? For gut motility or prebiotic content?
 

AloeSvea

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Yes, the fibre requirement issue is a fascinating one! Especially for those of us with a dietary disease. We are so vulnerable to dietary recommendations. And I remember after I was first diagnosed with T2D, adding fibre and fibre supplements were commonly and enthusiastically billed as an anti-diabetes miracle. So I took it onboard.

After a while I stopped with the added fibre, and it made no impact on blood glucose and own insulin productin and resistance. So what about toilet issues When I came across the data this chappie presents, and you listen to the logic - about fibre not helping reduce but increasing constipation - it makes complete sense. And that is indeed my own experience.

I am an enthusiastic eater of seeds, nuts, cauli and brocolli, and berries and fermented products. So I figured I was getting plenty of fibre that I need for digestive health. And such is my experience. No toileting issues when I just eat a healthy LCHF diet, and don't pay any attention to the high fibre diet recommendation, especially if recommending it be taken outside of actual wholefood consumption (including meat and fish).
 

AloeSvea

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Thanks @ajbod for the vid on fibre, and, the microbiome and weight loss.

(To readers - Good summary right at the end. And you can backtrack from there on the issues that interest or is new information...)
 

Beating-My-Betes

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Messages
606
Since reducing my carb intake, I'm finding it difficult to get enough fibre in my diet.

I'm aware of various foods which have a good level of fibre, but it's difficult to incorporate enough of them into my diet to reach the desired level.

I'm wondering if I should add a fibre supplement to my diet?

If so, which one(s)? Soluble/insoluble? For gut motility or prebiotic content?
Fibre IS important!

Seeds can be useful (Chia pudding, flax 'egg' etc.). And if you're not on an extremely low-carb diet, salads, sprouts, botanical fruits (Seeded e.g tomatoes, cucumber, peppers, courgettes etc.). Aubergine can be great. Broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage can also be a great addition. If your BG can tolerate bean, pulses etc. they're excellent sources...as is tofu. And adding low G fruit might be something that you can add. Berries are a great addition, and apples are a marvellous 'intestinal broom' (especially if eaten on an empty stomach.

Of course, there's also supplementation. I'm not familiar with any brads, but psyllium husk can be used pretty effectively.

Other than that, physical movement (Walking and especially yoga), self massages of lower abdomen, and good general hydration will all help.

Good luck!
 
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Outlier

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Many of us (given that we are all different) find that upping our healthy fats works well as an alternative to more fibre. So - olive oil, butter, cream, and if you are a meat eater, the fat that comes with the meat, can all work well.
 

Skyrider

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Messages
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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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May answer your question for you.

Many thanks for the link, a very interesting presentation. Following on from that video, I found this one, which is also very interesting & entertaining:

 

Skyrider

Well-Known Member
Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Yes, the fibre requirement issue is a fascinating one! Especially for those of us with a dietary disease. We are so vulnerable to dietary recommendations. And I remember after I was first diagnosed with T2D, adding fibre and fibre supplements were commonly and enthusiastically billed as an anti-diabetes miracle. So I took it onboard.

After a while I stopped with the added fibre, and it made no impact on blood glucose and own insulin productin and resistance. So what about toilet issues When I came across the data this chappie presents, and you listen to the logic - about fibre not helping reduce but increasing constipation - it makes complete sense. And that is indeed my own experience.

I am an enthusiastic eater of seeds, nuts, cauli and brocolli, and berries and fermented products. So I figured I was getting plenty of fibre that I need for digestive health. And such is my experience. No toileting issues when I just eat a healthy LCHF diet, and don't pay any attention to the high fibre diet recommendation, especially if recommending it be taken outside of actual wholefood consumption (including meat and fish).

Thank you for sharing your experiences on this. I do not appear to have any gut/toileting issues at present, although I did suffer from IBS for a couple of years which now seems to have resolved, so not concerned about that aspect. Rather, I'm more interested in the effects on the microbiome & blood glucose control which, like most things, seems to be somewhat controversial.
 

Skyrider

Well-Known Member
Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Fibre IS important!

Seeds can be useful (Chia pudding, flax 'egg' etc.). And if you're not on an extremely low-carb diet, salads, sprouts, botanical fruits (Seeded e.g tomatoes, cucumber, peppers, courgettes etc.). Aubergine can be great. Broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage can also be a great addition. If your BG can tolerate bean, pulses etc. they're excellent sources...as is tofu. And adding low G fruit might be something that you can add. Berries are a great addition, and apples are a marvellous 'intestinal broom' (especially if eaten on an empty stomach.

Of course, there's also supplementation. I'm not familiar with any brads, but psyllium husk can be used pretty effectively.

Other than that, physical movement (Walking and especially yoga), self massages of lower abdomen, and good general hydration will all help.

Good luck!

Thank you for your input. I'm fine with all of those, although a little cautious with raw chia, i.e. which has not been soaked. This whole fibre issue seems to be very controversial.
 
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JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
6,125
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Since reducing my carb intake, I'm finding it difficult to get enough fibre in my diet.

I'm aware of various foods which have a good level of fibre, but it's difficult to incorporate enough of them into my diet to reach the desired level.

I'm wondering if I should add a fibre supplement to my diet?

If so, which one(s)? Soluble/insoluble? For gut motility or prebiotic content?
I always heard fibre was important, but whenever I took it in in any "Eatwell Plate" type of amounts, it just caused constipation. (Quitting bread was a revelation!). At this point my diet doesn't have a whole lot of fibres, but I seem to have found a sweet spot where I just put maybe a teaspoon of some very fine psyllium husk in my (coconut) yoghurt, and that helps. It gives the gut bacteria something to thrive in, doesn't constipate because there's not enough of it to cause any blocking, and does what it needs to, nothing more, nothing less. Like with anything else, it is my personal belief, based on absolutely nothing other than my experience, that this too is an issue of uniqueness... Just experiment some and see what you fare well on, because what is true for you, might not be for the next person. There's nobody with the exact same combination of gut wall lining, gut flora and what have you, as your own. If you're fine without supplementation, then don't. If you're not, add a little in, in whatever way feels/tastes good to you, and see whether it makes a difference.
 
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Beating-My-Betes

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606
Thank you for your input. I'm fine with all of those, although a little cautious with raw chia, i.e. have not been soaked. This whole fibre issues seems very controversial.
That's why I mentioned chia pudding, which is soaked. Mix some chia, berries and/or other bits of fruit into water, stir and then let sit in the fridge. Eventually the seeds will plump up and become encased in a soft jelly (Kinda look like frog spawn).

Unfortunately, certain (groups) of people have got it into their heads that the truth lies in the opposite of everything officially recommended. These ideas, although containing a kernel of truth, are borne of reductionist and conspiratorial thinking.
 

Skyrider

Well-Known Member
Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I always heard fibre was important, but whenever I took it in in any "Eatwell Plate" type of amounts, it just caused constipation. (Quitting bread was a revelation!). At this point my diet doesn't have a whole lot of fibres, but I seem to have found a sweet spot where I just put maybe a teaspoon of some very fine psyllium husk in my (coconut) yoghurt, and that helps. It gives the gut bacteria something to thrive in, doesn't constipate because there's not enough of it to cause any blocking, and does what it needs to, nothing more, nothing less. Like with anything else, it is my personal belief, based on absolutely nothing other than my experience, that this too is an issue of uniqueness... Just experiment some and see what you fare well on, because what is true for you, might not be for the next person. There's nobody with the exact same combination of gut wall lining, gut flora and what have you, as your own. If you're fine without supplementation, then don't. If you're not, add a little in, in whatever way feels/tastes good to you, and see whether it makes a difference.

Thanks Jo, that sounds like a sensible approach. When you're constantly told by the Fibre Police that you must eat 30 g (or more) per day, you can get somewhat anxious if you fail to achieve this. As I have found, there are others who argue against the need for fibre, so it's really hard to know what to believe.
 
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Skyrider

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Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
That's why I mentioned chia pudding, which is soaked. Mix some chia, berries and/or other bits of fruit into water, stir and then let sit in the fridge. Eventually the seeds will plump up and become encased in a soft jelly (Kinda look like frog spawn).

Unfortunately, certain (groups) of people have got it into their heads that the truth lies in the opposite of everything officially recommended. These ideas, although containing a kernel of truth, are borne of reductionist and conspiratorial thinking.

Thanks for the tips.

Regarding the conspiracy thinkers: yes, it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, if you'll pardon the pun!
 
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lovinglife

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Hi @Skyrider

You might find these two articles helpful from the DietDoctor website that talks about low carb/keto and fibre


https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/high-fiber-foods

Edited to add correct link
 

Skyrider

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Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
Hi @Skyrider

You might find these two articles helpful from the DietDoctor website that talks about low carb/keto and fibre


https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/high-fiber-foods

Edited to add correct link

Thanks for the links, very helpful. I already eat most of those but can add more to help me get there. Having viewed the videos mentioned above, I'm now uncertain as to how far I need to go with this. The '30 g' recommendation seems very generalised & controversial.
 

ajbod

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Messages
793
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I suffer from Diverticular disease, the official recommendation is to increase fibre to aid this. But the very definition of Diverticular disease, is having Diverticula, pockets of weakened stretched bowel. Bulking up the stools is the last thing i want to happen, as this is increasing the pressure on the weakened bowel walls. And having been blue lighted to hospital with a Diverticula blockage (how i came to be diagnosed) causing an infected inflamed bowel, Gall bladder and Appendix, which is very painful, to the point my wife said "if you'd given birth you'd know what pain is". The female paramedics reply was " I've had 3 kids, and this, and this is FAR more painful". Since going low carb, and not worrying about how much fibre i consume. Touch wood i haven't had a single problem. In fact eating more fat appears to be a good bowel lubricant.
 

Skyrider

Well-Known Member
Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I suffer from Diverticular disease, the official recommendation is to increase fibre to aid this. But the very definition of Diverticular disease, is having Diverticula, pockets of weakened stretched bowel. Bulking up the stools is the last thing i want to happen, as this is increasing the pressure on the weakened bowel walls. And having been blue lighted to hospital with a Diverticula blockage (how i came to be diagnosed) causing an infected inflamed bowel, Gall bladder and Appendix, which is very painful, to the point my wife said "if you'd given birth you'd know what pain is". The female paramedics reply was " I've had 3 kids, and this, and this is FAR more painful". Since going low carb, and not worrying about how much fibre i consume. Touch wood i haven't had a single problem. In fact eating more fat appears to be a good bowel lubricant.

Sorry to hear about your condition, it does sound painful! Glad to hear that you have it under control. I can understand that this is a special case & that you may need to deviate from standard advice. Having read various points of view, I think I can live with my present levels, but will monitor how things go...
 

ajbod

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Messages
793
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Apparently about 50% of over 50 s have Diverticula, but unless a problem arises, or they are diagnosed by accident via ct scans and mri s for other issues, then most are blissfully unaware.
 
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Skyrider

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Messages
49
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Apparently about 50% of over 50 s have Diverticula, but unless a problem arises, or they are diagnosed by accident via ct scans and mri s for other issues, then most are blissfully unaware.

That's somewhat disturbing: hope I am not one of them!
 

lovinglife

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Messages
4,866
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
I suffer from Diverticular disease, the official recommendation is to increase fibre to aid this. But the very definition of Diverticular disease, is having Diverticula, pockets of weakened stretched bowel. Bulking up the stools is the last thing i want to happen, as this is increasing the pressure on the weakened bowel walls. And having been blue lighted to hospital with a Diverticula blockage (how i came to be diagnosed) causing an infected inflamed bowel, Gall bladder and Appendix, which is very painful, to the point my wife said "if you'd given birth you'd know what pain is". The female paramedics reply was " I've had 3 kids, and this, and this is FAR more painful". Since going low carb, and not worrying about how much fibre i consume. Touch wood i haven't had a single problem. In fact eating more fat appears to be a good bowel lubricant.
My experience is very similar to yours @ajbod, it was actually whilst I was in hospital with a bad bout of diverticulitis that I was also diagnosed with T2, I eat keto and don’t add anything fibre wise to my diet and I’ve had tiny flare ups as in a slight twinge and it makes me realise I probably haven’t had enough fats rather than fibre, once I add a bit more fat usually oils or avocado then it rights itself pretty quickly
 
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