First blood glucose test

charon

Well-Known Member
Messages
201
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Hope people don't mind me posting what is in effect a diary but I find it helps and the advice is useful.

This evening before meal - weetabix for breakfast again came in at 7.6 which is the lowest yet.
After meal test (2 salmon etc. sandwiches, burgen bread - more than I needed) 2 hours later was 15.6. Highest reading yet but first after meal test.
Is this the sort of thing that would be expected with type 2?

Shows that my pancreas isn't keeping up with things I think and the glucose reduction is a very slow process.
 

Finzi

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Charon - I'm wondering why you have been eating so little? Is this because of the diabetes or because you generally have a very small appetite? What's the thing with only having two meals a day, one of which is two weetabix?

Just personally, I think you are going about it the wrong way (sorry, that sounds a bit harsh!). You don't need to semi-starve yourself (you're not even particularly overweight). But the things that you are eating are virtually guaranteed to cause your blood sugar to go up while not really providing you with much useful nutrition. Bread (white, brown, whole meal, whatever) and weetabix are both shockingly high in carbs. I wouldn't eat either of them, or only as a very special treat - certainly not every day, as pretty much my sole food intake.

Search on the forum for "Viv's modified Atkins diet" to see an alternative which means that you can eat normal amounts without (hopefully) causing your blood sugar to rise so much. 15.8, I'm afraid, is very high for two hours after a meal, but not surprising given that the meal consisted mostly of bread.

Some more general advice on blood testing (there's no point going more into diet, because it will be easier to learn from Viv's thread). I know you're slightly rationed on strips, but its good that your GP is prescribing them. I would focus as much as you can now on pre-meal plus 2 hour post meal tests. I think it's less helpful to think in terms of "15 hours since I ate xx" or "9 hours since I ate yy". No matter what it was you ate (even bread ;) ) the sugar level that long afterwards would be unrelated. Our livers produce sugar whenever needed (eg if we have not eaten for a while). You going for long periods without eating (by definition, if you are only eating one or two meals a day) just means your liver is pumping out sugar, which your pancreas is then not dealing well with, as a Type 2 diabetic. So knowing what your sugar is after a 15 hour fast is not actually very useful. You need to know what it is two hours after eating (this is generally accepted as the most useful time to test - much before that, *everybody's* sugar would be raised - that's normal) and much after that, it becomes unrelated to what you have eaten. And therefore isn't much help in deciding whether you can eat that thing again. Initially, it's useful to know what it is immediately before eating as well. This is to be able to compare - if you don't know what it was before, then you can't put the after figure into context.

You are aiming, at least initially, for a rise of no more than 2mmol between the two figures. You are also aiming for the second figure to be less than 7.8mmol. But again, in some ways the rise of less than 2mmol is *more* important. If your fasting is 10mmol, and you only rise to 11mmol, that was a good meal. You should eat that type of meal again. The fact that you rose to 11mmol is not really within your control, given where you started. But if you started at 6mmol, and rose to 10.5mmol, that was not a good meal, and should be avoided in future, even though the end result was lower.

If you follow a low carb diet like Viv's modified Atkins, then the pre and post meal levels should start coming down by themselves. If your doctor prescribes medication that may help somewhat as well (although diet is probably more important). Exercise can also help.

Lastly (I can't sleep lol) - I think all of us do this, I know I certainly do - try not to be over-focused on individual readings. I think in the thread above you've reached some conclusions ("this shows that I xyz..."). I think it's much too soon, on the minimal amount of data you have, to reach meaningful conclusions. Sugar readings are often very unpredictable, especially early on, and for some people, always. It's very natural to latch on to one particular reading and try to extrapolate all sorts of conclusions from it. For now, take a step back. Measure before and after each meal (if strips allow. If not then maybe concentrate on one meal in each day). Write down *exactly* what you ate and what the results were. If you can, try to also calculate the carbs you had in each meal (most products have the carbs on the nutritional info. NB it is total carbohydrate that you need to note down, not the "of which sugars ..." figure. ALL carbohydrates are turned into sugars by our body). Aim for a daily limit (I think Viv tries to stick to under 50g. I, at least initially, stuck to under 30g, but by doing that I have pretty much reversed/controlled my Type 2 diabetes in four months, and can now eat pretty much what I want, within reason, without it raising my blood sugar. I don't, though, because I am still trying to lose weight and low carbing has been the best way for me to do that. I am fairly sure that, even on the minimal amount you are eating, you are having over 100g of carbs a day. I definitely could not have eaten like that in the beginning without it having a bad effect on my levels.

Try (if you're not vegetarian) substituting your Weetabix breakfast for bacon and eggs tomorrow. Essentially a zero carb breakfast. I would be very surprised if you didn't see some improvement in your post-meal levels.


Type 2 on Metformin, diagnosed Jan 2013, ultra low carber, Hba1C at diagnosis 8% (11mmol), now between 4.5 and 5.5 mmol. 20kg lost so far :)
 

charon

Well-Known Member
Messages
201
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Thanks
Yes I realise what I am doing and this is meant to be short term and I do want to lose a little weight.
I have more test strips now - but not lancets unfortunately.

I was worried about the first couple of readings and wanted a bit more understanding of what happened - still not sure why they were so high unless it was a left over from what I was eating before.
The sandwiches yesterday were a test - surprised how high it went but guess I now know I can't do that.
I'll try a single sandwich sometime.

Just checked the weetabix packet and 25.7g carbs per serving which I guess is 2 weetabix.
I was going on the nurses recommendation but guess you need to check everything.

I'm going away this weekend and won't have so much control. Next week I'm planning to have more meals - maybe 4 small ones per day to try and level things out.

I'm going to test beef, cabbage, onion,mushrooms, broccoli, gravy today.

Good to hear about the bacon and eggs - I can do that. Shame about the toast though.
Can I have mushrooms with it?
 

Finzi

Well-Known Member
Messages
366
Oh definitely can have mushrooms. Re lancets, I don't know if you have the single use ones, or the pen where you load a needle/lancet into it and then fire it with a button. If they're the single use ones, not much you can do, but if its a pen, you can definitely reuse the needle (as long as you don't share it). I use each lancet about 15-20 times, basically until it feels blunt (you can tell because it starts to hurt a bit more).
 

charon

Well-Known Member
Messages
201
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Finzi, I have to agree with you - thanks.

After beef and vegetables this evening the reading went from 7.2 to 8.0
After sandwiches yesterday it went from 7.6 to 15.8.
I'm amazed at the difference.

The meal this evening was quite adequate too - I thought it was maybe too much while I was eating it.
I could happily survive on this sort of diet varying the meat - especially with egg and bacon for breakfast.
Shame about the bread - I liked the Burgen but can try that again later. Might use this loaf up with small portions as snacks.

Think I'll keep going with this for a week then experiment.
I have a pen so I'll try reusing the lancets to get me through until I resupply.
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
charon said:
I'm going to test beef, cabbage, onion,mushrooms, broccoli, gravy today.

Good to hear about the bacon and eggs - I can do that. Shame about the toast though.
Can I have mushrooms with it?

You can have all sorts of posh breakfasts, smoked haddock with poached egg, kippers etc, it's the quick and easy stuff, toast and marmelade which is off limits.

I get proper wholemeal breads with a high wholemeal rye content in and find that they are ok for me. Some of them are nice toasted too. It's worth the effort sourcing a real bread that you can eat because you can use it for so many quick and easy meals, with soups, toasted at breakfast, bruschettas or even plain old beans on toast.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yorksman said:
charon said:
I'm going to test beef, cabbage, onion,mushrooms, broccoli, gravy today.

Good to hear about the bacon and eggs - I can do that. Shame about the toast though.
Can I have mushrooms with it?

You can have all sorts of posh breakfasts, smoked haddock with poached egg, kippers etc, it's the quick and easy stuff, toast and marmelade which is off limits.

I get proper wholemeal breads with a high wholemeal rye content in and find that they are ok for me. Some of them are nice toasted too. It's worth the effort sourcing a real bread that you can eat because you can use it for so many quick and easy meals, with soups, toasted at breakfast, bruschettas or even plain old beans on toast.

I would disagree that toast and marmalade and loads of other things are off limits (except beans on wholewheat toast!). It's quantity and, perhaps, frequency & repition that matter more and, of course, bG level two hours later. Of course, if you pile on the preserve as as if you are laying bricks, then that is probably not very sensible. Nor would six slices of wholewheat bread be. Homemade wholemeal bread is better than bought, as you can control the ingredients (sugar not mandatory ... vitamin C can help rising). It also tends to come out rather more brick-like and fills you up quickly.
 
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Anonymous

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gezzathorpe said:
Yorksman said:
charon said:
I'm going to test beef, cabbage, onion,mushrooms, broccoli, gravy today.

Good to hear about the bacon and eggs - I can do that. Shame about the toast though.
Can I have mushrooms with it?

You can have all sorts of posh breakfasts, smoked haddock with poached egg, kippers etc, it's the quick and easy stuff, toast and marmelade which is off limits.

I get proper wholemeal breads with a high wholemeal rye content in and find that they are ok for me. Some of them are nice toasted too. It's worth the effort sourcing a real bread that you can eat because you can use it for so many quick and easy meals, with soups, toasted at breakfast, bruschettas or even plain old beans on toast.

I would disagree that toast and marmalade and loads of other things are off limits (except beans on wholewheat toast!). It's quantity and, perhaps, frequency & repetition that matter more and, of course, bG level two hours later. Of course, if you pile on the preserve as as if you are laying bricks, then that is probably not very sensible. Nor would six slices of wholewheat bread be. Homemade wholemeal bread is better than bought, as you can control the ingredients (sugar not mandatory ... vitamin C can help rising). It also tends to come out rather more brick-like and fills you up quickly.

Homemade muesli is also very satisfying as you can vary the quantity of nuts, dried fruit, oats (or crushed cereal) to your requirements.
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
gezzathorpe said:
Homemade wholemeal bread is better than bought, as you can control the ingredients (sugar not mandatory ... vitamin C can help rising). It also tends to come out rather more brick-like and fills you up quickly.

Sugar has no place in bread. I'm not even too keen on bakers' yeast. Slow, slow, slow is the motto, leavens and sourdough. Doesn't have to be too solid, I often allow a leaven 72 hours, refreshed every 24 hours and then mix the dough and then allow another 36 hours proving in a cool place. Bread needs time to develop the taste. Bakers' yeast, sugars, warm rooms and steam ovens are for speed. You're right though, two slices of a good quality wheat and rye wholemeal mixed bread fills you up.

Typically these are proved in bannetons which give it the typical shape as it flows and spreads sideways once removed from the form.

bio_helis_bauernbrot_thumb.jpg


If you want it to look more upright, you prove it in a bread tin and then bake it in the tin. That gives you the shape that you can use in a pop up toaster.

Actually the diabetic marmelade from Stute is not bad tasting, 2g carbs from sugar per 100g, the rest, 55g is from non digestible sorbitol.
 
A

Anonymous

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Yorksman said:
gezzathorpe said:
Homemade wholemeal bread is better than bought, as you can control the ingredients (sugar not mandatory ... vitamin C can help rising). It also tends to come out rather more brick-like and fills you up quickly.

Sugar has no place in bread. I'm not even too keen on bakers' yeast. Slow, slow, slow is the motto, leavens and sourdough. Doesn't have to be too solid, I often allow a leaven 72 hours, refreshed every 24 hours and then mix the dough and then allow another 36 hours proving in a cool place. Bread needs time to develop the taste. Bakers' yeast, sugars, warm rooms and steam ovens are for speed. You're right though, two slices of a good quality wheat and rye wholemeal mixed bread fills you up.

Typically these are proved in bannetons which give it the typical shape as it flows and spreads sideways once removed from the form.

bio_helis_bauernbrot_thumb.jpg


If you want it to look more upright, you prove it in a bread tin and then bake it in the tin. That gives you the shape that you can use in a pop up toaster.

Actually the diabetic marmelade from Stute is not bad tasting, 2g carbs from sugar per 100g, the rest, 55g is from non digestible sorbitol.

According to Paul 'blue eyes' Hollywood, cutting a few diagonal slits on the top of the bread before baking helps the bread to go 'up', according to his recipe on 'bloomers' (1st floor ... lingerie etc.). I think the last time I tried this, the bread sank!!

I now make everything myself, bread, pasta, mayo, peanut butter, mint sauce, chilli jam, horseradish, hummus, sausages, cheese (too impatient to wait for it to mature though!) ... just about everything that comes in a jar that I like. Except jam ... that, to me, is a good piece of fruit spoilt. Guess who's got time on his hands!
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
gezzathorpe said:
I now make everything myself, bread, pasta, mayo, peanut butter, mint sauce, chilli jam, horseradish, hummus, sausages, cheese (too impatient to wait for it to mature though!) ... just about everything that comes in a jar that I like. Except jam ... that, to me, is a good piece of fruit spoilt. Guess who's got time on his hands!

I think you're right. It's the only way to be sure plus it is enjoyable and you learn what is good for you. But, like you say, you need time. For many of us here, it was lack of time that caused us to eat too much junk in the first place. The food I ate didn't really satisfy so you had more or something else to go with it. And then you get half addicted to fat and sugar and start to crave it. Fortuntely, what has been learned can be unlearned but, you need time.
 
A

Anonymous

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Yorksman said:
gezzathorpe said:
I now make everything myself, bread, pasta, mayo, peanut butter, mint sauce, chilli jam, horseradish, hummus, sausages, cheese (too impatient to wait for it to mature though!) ... just about everything that comes in a jar that I like. Except jam ... that, to me, is a good piece of fruit spoilt. Guess who's got time on his hands!

I think you're right. It's the only way to be sure plus it is enjoyable and you learn what is good for you. But, like you say, you need time. For many of us here, it was lack of time that caused us to eat too much junk in the first place. The food I ate didn't really satisfy so you had more or something else to go with it. And then you get half addicted to fat and sugar and start to crave it. Fortuntely, what has been learned can be unlearned but, you need time.

Very well put. Unfortunately, willpower does not come ready-made. Also, and I am not having a 'dig', many people are traumatised when first diagnosed (not helped by their ignorant, non-diabetic peers!) and can become very 'tied' to the system of weighing food, weighing themselves, blood testing before and after just about everything and feeling dissatisfied with readings which are fine, but not good enough for them etc. I am fortunate, maybe because I am seem to be less 'diabetic' than others (if there is such a thing), and the condition now fits comfortably into my life rather than the other way round. My attitude is, if someone offers me something naughty to eat, I would accept at the expensive of a temporary spike, rather than saying 'sorry .. can't .. I'm a diabetic'.

I also think it is possible to knock up a decent meal (even in bulk) in not much more time that it takes to open tins or cook things in the microwave. To me, it's a bit like thinking '******! the lawn needs mowing again' then finding it only took 5 minutes in the end, or using the 'delayed play' on the TV so a favourite programme is not missed due to cooking duties ... it's a mindset thing as much as anything. We have no acreage or kids to worry about, of course.
 

Yorksman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,445
Type of diabetes
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gezzathorpe said:
To me, it's a bit like thinking '******! the lawn needs mowing again'

I wish you hadn't reminded me. Why do dandelions grow so quickly?
 
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Anonymous

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Yorksman said:
gezzathorpe said:
To me, it's a bit like thinking '******! the lawn needs mowing again'

I wish you hadn't reminded me. Why do dandelions grow so quickly?

Think I'll look for some concrete seeds and sow them!
 

Wiz0697

Newbie
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1
Check the sugars in the baked beans, I found them to be way to high because of the tomato sauce in them. Not been a diagnosed diabetic for long (6 weeks) but I have found keeping the sugars in foods to 1 or less per 100grams helps me keep my levels under control. Does not always work but in general it seems too.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Wiz0697 said:
Check the sugars in the baked beans, I found them to be way to high because of the tomato sauce in them. Not been a diagnosed diabetic for long (6 weeks) but I have found keeping the sugars in foods to 1 or less per 100grams helps me keep my levels under control. Does not always work but in general it seems too.

Maybe use haricot beans and homemade tomato sauce. Must give that a try sometime. I can add some naga chillies to it as well :oops: