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Freestyle libre 2 with-Optional-Real-Time-Alarms
- Thread starter O_DP_T1
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novorapidboi26
Well-Known Member
nice one
O_DP_T1
Well-Known Member
Sorry what does the blood calibration facility do?
Sometimes the sensor is a little bit out. The apps which work via miaomiao don't use Abbot's calibration algorithm, they've had to reverse engineer it, so they work against a blood calibration. This means if the sensor is slightly out, they cope, whereas the abbot app/device reads incorrectly.
To answer the question, I hope the enterprising folks behind Spike and XDrip+ will get hold of these once they're out, and work out the bluetooth comms required. At which point it Spike/XDrip+ would work in the same way as they do now, only without the miaomiao in between.
I do worry that the bluetooth may be encrypted a little hard though - if that's the case, using non-abbot apps might be harder. Unless Abbot release an API, but I don't see that happening. NFC doesn't need the same level as security as bluetooth, hence the comms side of miaomiao isn't insanely hard. I hope I'm wrong.
To answer the question, I hope the enterprising folks behind Spike and XDrip+ will get hold of these once they're out, and work out the bluetooth comms required. At which point it Spike/XDrip+ would work in the same way as they do now, only without the miaomiao in between.
I do worry that the bluetooth may be encrypted a little hard though - if that's the case, using non-abbot apps might be harder. Unless Abbot release an API, but I don't see that happening. NFC doesn't need the same level as security as bluetooth, hence the comms side of miaomiao isn't insanely hard. I hope I'm wrong.
mike@work
Well-Known Member
I have not yet had the time to read the link, but I saw your first sentence here, and had to react to it. I am of the opinion, that they lie a bit too much. The one I have right now is OK, the one before that showed erroneous values of up to 5.5 mmol/l - I got a new one. The two before that showed errors of about 2 mmol/l (constantly i.e.). Libre-sensors are not as good as they should be.
On the other hand, as you already have pointed out here - there are software and appliances you can use to correct those problems. With this I don't mean my Libre is useless - it is a wonderful tool to help you keep an eye on BS-trends.
With this rant above in mind, I would like to stress the obvious need of the "second edition" to have calibration possibilities!
Let's hope some Libre-bosses also read this...
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LooperCat
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This is the same 24 hour period, the official app had me as hypo for 90% of the time, but blood readings, which I used to calibrate Spike, showed I was happily within my 4-7 range.
mike@work
Well-Known Member
Same problem here - always shows too low values...
I just have to test one of those apps
becca59
Well-Known Member
All interesting, but absolutely useless until we all have the same access to it. Just the first generation would be good. They also need to sort out the allergy problem which effects many more than the 3000 that have signed up to the Facebook rash website.
It is very hard to come on this forum to hear people talking about how they are getting the Libre through the NHS. When there are still many of us scraping the money up to purchase it ourselves. Then there are the people for one reason or another who are not in a position to do that. Purchasing extra stuff to enhance it is a pipe dream. The disparity is mind boggling.
Rant over!
It is very hard to come on this forum to hear people talking about how they are getting the Libre through the NHS. When there are still many of us scraping the money up to purchase it ourselves. Then there are the people for one reason or another who are not in a position to do that. Purchasing extra stuff to enhance it is a pipe dream. The disparity is mind boggling.
Rant over!
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K
Knikki
Guest
Interesting and somthing that would be really useful, however, unless the can now make sensor that is accurate to within say 5% then it's useless, and I'll stick with the xDrip setup.
Imagine the alarm going off saying LO, some will panic, go deal with it then do a blood test and find your actually sitting at 5 mmol. Still, if I get the opportunity I'll give it a try.
Imagine the alarm going off saying LO, some will panic, go deal with it then do a blood test and find your actually sitting at 5 mmol. Still, if I get the opportunity I'll give it a try.
There's some discussion of it here:
https://mobile.twitter.com/drfrasergibb/status/1046743394247151623
From the presentation poster, it doesn't look like it's going to turn it into "proper" cgm where you're getting the 5min blue dots. Looks like it'll alarm, then you need to still do a scan with the reader to get the result. Don't know if that will be the same with the app.
It's interesting the poster says the sensor transmits every minute. That suggests there will be enough battery power in the sensor to work with xdrip etc if they can hack it.
Can't see any suggestion that it allows for calibration.
I reckon many of us will want to stick with xdrip /spike, so here's hoping it can be hacked for that purpose
https://mobile.twitter.com/drfrasergibb/status/1046743394247151623
From the presentation poster, it doesn't look like it's going to turn it into "proper" cgm where you're getting the 5min blue dots. Looks like it'll alarm, then you need to still do a scan with the reader to get the result. Don't know if that will be the same with the app.
It's interesting the poster says the sensor transmits every minute. That suggests there will be enough battery power in the sensor to work with xdrip etc if they can hack it.
Can't see any suggestion that it allows for calibration.
I reckon many of us will want to stick with xdrip /spike, so here's hoping it can be hacked for that purpose
I don't think so, as one of their selling points is not needing to calibrate.
LooperCat
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Sadly, the lack of calibration is one of the biggest problems with it.
Bluey1
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The problem is what is accurate. I tried 3 different strips vs Enlite vs Libre (with 15min delay) an they were all over the place frequently with over 2.5mmol/l. If it was that brand A was always high and brand D was always low, but it was a lottery which was high and low, the only consistent was that 2.5mmol/l it could get as bad as over 3mmol/l or as good as 2mmol/l. I can only imagine when the first strips came out, but they must have been amazing as the accuracy was way over a colour change. Unfortunately it seems companies aren't that interested in accuracy,
I am aware of the formula that they use which is appalling, I have found a number of different formulas just to make it more interesting. If you test 100 times a month 5 times the results are so bad ignore them. For the rest of the time 0.83mmol/l below 4.2 and +-20% above 4.2mmol/l.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose-meters/blood-glucose-meter-accuracy.html
And we wonder why D is difficult to manage...
We can't even get a consistent measurement for HbA1c NGSP% IFCC mol/mol or eAG mg/dl and they are all in Metric.
I'm certain give them long enough and they will start using hieroglyphs just to really confuse us. My last bgl was
what was yours?
I am aware of the formula that they use which is appalling, I have found a number of different formulas just to make it more interesting. If you test 100 times a month 5 times the results are so bad ignore them. For the rest of the time 0.83mmol/l below 4.2 and +-20% above 4.2mmol/l.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose-meters/blood-glucose-meter-accuracy.html
And we wonder why D is difficult to manage...
We can't even get a consistent measurement for HbA1c NGSP% IFCC mol/mol or eAG mg/dl and they are all in Metric.
I'm certain give them long enough and they will start using hieroglyphs just to really confuse us. My last bgl was
what was yours?
Did a bit of digging around on this. It does raise a lot of questions: https://www.diabettech.com/cgm/abbo...oday-at-easd2018-more-questions-than-answers/
I think concerns about accuracy are fair but very variable across systems and users. @Knikki - you can't guarantee that blood tests are within 5% accuracy, and CGM systems are some 20 years behind those. I don't see the Abbott team adding calibration any time soon.
They'd argue that the data doesn't support it. Studies like this http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/67/Supplement_1/14-OR show that the Libre and G5 in real world use showed MARD versus SMBG of 18% on the Libre Pro and 16.3% on the G5, with the G5 being calibrated 2x daily, neither of which can be considered accurate.
I think concerns about accuracy are fair but very variable across systems and users. @Knikki - you can't guarantee that blood tests are within 5% accuracy, and CGM systems are some 20 years behind those. I don't see the Abbott team adding calibration any time soon.
They'd argue that the data doesn't support it. Studies like this http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/67/Supplement_1/14-OR show that the Libre and G5 in real world use showed MARD versus SMBG of 18% on the Libre Pro and 16.3% on the G5, with the G5 being calibrated 2x daily, neither of which can be considered accurate.
mike@work
Well-Known Member
Hello!
I voted an agree for you, because I also fully think it is unfair if someone gets a Libre and someone doesn't - at least if you fulfill all qualification criterias. I do not on the other hand agree, that it's taboo to criticize a product, that does not stand for adequate quality.
But we are here to debate things, so I do fully respect your opinion...
slip
Well-Known Member
The question is if it transmits 'BGL' levels then why do you have to scan? I suspect the transmit every minute is just a signal test/high or low alarm signal not actual data.
What I'd like to know is the adhesive different from the current Libre?!
slip
Well-Known Member
Also I think Abbott have been very clever here, There aren't that many T1Ds that get a full blown CGM on the NHS for the reason of not having any hypo awareness, and there are plenty out that that do suffer from not having hypo awareness - having hi-lo alarms fits nicely into this scenario and at a cost already agreed by the NHS - this is a win win for Abbott, the NHS AND those with no hypo awareness surely?
Yup. They've just placed themselves squarely in front of Dexcom in commissioning terms. Dexcom apparently costs the NHS 25% more than Libre (Who knew?), and for those who are Hypo unaware, Libre2 now covers that off with alerts. The pressure goes back onto Dexcom.
I mentioned this in my post, and there's some further thought on it.
First up, Bigfoot mentioned they'd use the "Next generation Libre" with their device. Abbott have used the same wording with this announcement. Coincidence?
Second up, the way Libre has worked historically is that the app and the reader contain the algorithm that determines the glucose level from the raw data. It would be a significant change in the design and architecture of the device if they were to move that on to the sensor so that it could deliver hi/low/normal information. It would also require 2 way communication, as the alert levels are customisable, so you'd have to be able to tell the sensor to reset its thresholds for alerting. This seems a little unlikely given the hardware in the sensor, so lends the impression that it will provide a data stream.
Of course we won't know until we get hold of them and start looking.
