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[dawnmc]

Just got my newsletter from this site. And there is a video of the diet recommendations, yep starchy carbs with every meal.
What is going on! They say that the diet we should be on is what they advise for a healthy diet for everyone. If thats the case the UK is going to be really really overloaded with diabetics.
I ate a healthy diet before I got diabetes.
I've said this before but if we eat what we ate before and got diabetic how is what they advise going to lower our BS.

 

[noblehead]

You have to remember Dawn that the main DCUK site is separate to that of the forum, some members eat carbs with every meal on here and others don't.......there's no right or wrong in how people manage their diabetes.

 

[dawnmc]

Looking at the responses to the advice they all seem to be appalled at the advice.

 

[sallylondon]

Newsletter???

 

[dawnmc]

lol, yes I signed up for it when I signed on this forum, every now and again they send me a newsletter via email.

 

[xyzzy]

You have to remember Dawn that the main DCUK site is separate to that of the forum, some members eat carbs with every meal on here and others don't.......there's no right or wrong in how people manage their diabetes.

Quite correct but as desidiabulum said the other day

They [DCUK] have a big profile and organization – shouldn’t they be playing a more active role on committees of enquiry etc, as an alternative voice to DUK? The DCUK homepage explains that ‘our primary goal is to reduce suffering in the diabetes community’ and stresses the desire to offer ‘an alternative ... experience’, and ‘alternative content and resources’.

What is the point if when push comes to shove they simply kowtow to the DUK line?

Stating a starchy carb with every meal message may well be fine and dandy for some diabetics but if that is the only message that is officially pushed by DCUK I fail to see how that meets their professed aims of 'reduce suffering in the diabetes' or to deliver ‘an alternative ... experience’ If you don't deliver those alternatives then they are just paying lip service to their aims. As far as I'm aware DCUK is not as legally obliged to push the official UK / NHS line like DUK is and is therefore not as constrained in publishing alternative viewpoints that would have their official backing. It would be interesting to hear how DCUK reconcile their laudable aims with what they do in practice.

 

[dawnmc]

I agree, well we are all individuals after all , there is no one size fits all. And if its not working for some diabetics, why arn't they looking at alternatives. It just seems like the easy option, and after all we have a NHS to pick up the pieces for when it doesn't work.

 

[Robinredbreast]

You have to remember Dawn that the main DCUK site is separate to that of the forum, some members eat carbs with every meal on here and others don't.......there's no right or wrong in how people manage their diabetes.

Quite correct but as desidiabulum said the other day

They [DCUK] have a big profile and organization – shouldn’t they be playing a more active role on committees of enquiry etc, as an alternative voice to DUK? The DCUK homepage explains that ‘our primary goal is to reduce suffering in the diabetes community’ and stresses the desire to offer ‘an alternative ... experience’, and ‘alternative content and resources’.

What is the point if when push comes to shove they simply kowtow to the DUK line?

Stating a starchy carb with every meal message may well be fine and dandy for some diabetics but if that is the only message that is officially pushed by DCUK I fail to see how that meets their professed aims of 'reduce suffering in the diabetes' or to deliver ‘an alternative ... experience’ If you don't deliver those alternatives then they are just paying lip service to their aims. As far as I'm aware DCUK is not as legally obliged to push the official UK / NHS line like DUK is and is therefore not as constrained in publishing an alternative viewpoints that would have their official backing. It would be interesting to hear how DCUK reconcile their laudable aims with what they do in practice.

Maybe a sensible thing to do is to word it as " Type 1 has no pancreass function as it has ceased to function, therefore with carb counting and Insulin dosage required to right amount of carbs ( obviously not newly diagnosed diabetics) "Type 2 have some function of the pancreass and they may need to reduce the amount of their carb intake with meals" something on those lines possibly, it could be great help to all A shake up is definately needed. Best wishes RRB

 

[phoenix]

Have you looked ?
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet-basics.html
Lot of info on the pros and cons of different diets
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet-for-type2-diabetes.html
an article describing some peoples disageement with NHS dietary advice plus info on low carbing.

As the site is a commercial site I'm not sure why you consider that they should be adopting any particular stance.

 

[IanD]

I agree, Dawn, it's the usual discredited advice that contributors to this forum have been fighting against for many years. (4 years in my case.)

If, as she says, "The advice has caused some controversy over people with diabetes" then surely the NHS must be aware that their advice is questionable. Even DUK have very slightly modified their carb advice in their most recent on-line pages. The changes are so guarded that you have to be looking for them, & of course their publications are as yet unchanged.

The situation is VERY unsatisfactory, & dangerous to our health, & much more expensive to pick up the pieces from complications than simply giving tried & tested advice from the experience of diabetics.
As Pete Seeger said, "When will they ever learn?"

Many of us have gained control of our health, & reversed the developing complications, simply by a drastic carb reduction.

 

[xyzzy]

Maybe a sensible thing to do is to word it as " Type 1 has no pancreass function as it has ceased to function, therefore with carb counting and Insulin dosage required to right amount of carbs ( obviously not newly diagnosed diabetics) "Type 2 have some function of the pancreass and they may need to reduce the amount of their carb intake with meals" something on those lines possibly, it could be great help to all A shake up is definately needed. Best wishes RRB

Yes I agree. If you put aside the fully legitimate debate as to why low carb may well be beneficial to Type 1's as well (for different but just as important reasons to T2's) then what it seems to reduce to is the inability, reluctance, corruptness, stubbornness, childishness (call it what you want) of stating the simple fact that a different dietary regime maybe preferable for T2's than the one advocated to the population as a whole.

This is the madness that is never addressed i.e. the ridiculous belief that a one size fits all diet is generally applicable to the entire population and that if you are T2 that you should still follow that one size only diet because the problems it could cause you are perfectly solvable by taking a load of strong medication and when that fails and kills your pancreas you can join the ranks of the T1's and inject insulin. Total madness :crazy:

 

[IanD]

Yes I agree. If you put aside the fully legitimate debate as to why low carb may well be beneficial to Type 1's as well (for different but just as important reasons to T2's) then what it seems to reduce to is the inability, reluctance, corruptness, stubbornness, childishness (call it what you want) of stating the simple fact that a different dietary regime maybe preferable for T2's than the one advocated to the population as a whole.

This is the madness that is never addressed i.e. the ridiculous belief that a one size fits all diet is generally applicable to the entire population and that if you are T2 that you should still follow that one size only diet because the problems it could cause you are perfectly solvable by taking a load of strong medication and when that fails and kills your pancreas you can join the ranks of the T1's and inject insulin. Total madness :crazy:

Yet whenever we inform the DUKs & dietitians of the benefits of rejecting their advice & going low carb, they are very quick to say "everybody is different, so do what works for you, but we will not change our general advice."

There is an impasse.

 

[xyzzy]

Yes I agree. If you put aside the fully legitimate debate as to why low carb may well be beneficial to Type 1's as well (for different but just as important reasons to T2's) then what it seems to reduce to is the inability, reluctance, corruptness, stubbornness, childishness (call it what you want) of stating the simple fact that a different dietary regime maybe preferable for T2's than the one advocated to the population as a whole.

This is the madness that is never addressed i.e. the ridiculous belief that a one size fits all diet is generally applicable to the entire population and that if you are T2 that you should still follow that one size only diet because the problems it could cause you are perfectly solvable by taking a load of strong medication and when that fails and kills your pancreas you can join the ranks of the T1's and inject insulin. Total madness :crazy:

Yet whenever we inform the DUKs & dietitians of the benefits of rejecting their advice & going low carb, they are very quick to say "everybody is different, so do what works for you, but we will not change our general advice."

There is an impasse.

Ian, relating it back to the OP. A good attempt at breaking that impasse would be for DCUK to take the lead but as others point out they are a commercial operation and I would guess (perhaps entirely wrongly) they feel they would risk advertising revenue if they were to do such a thing as officially adopt a position different to that of the UK as a whole. Unlike DUK I've never been particularly clear what the official DCUK policy statement is. Do they just inherit it from DUK or do they have a stand alone position? Maybe we should be told

My standpoint has always been to point out that the same impasse has been broken in other countries who now readily accept the concept of different dietary regimes for different needs. Secondary to that is for everyone who has been successful using "the alternative approach" to ensure they ram home what they do to their gp's and practice dsn's. T2 is a condition that for the majority of patients is and will be increasingly handled by their local gp practice. Persuading gp's that the alternative works (and will save them money) seems a good way forward as it entirely bypasses and would marginalise DUK.

 

[dawnmc]

Its just that there is a film of a woman advocating starchy carbs, its one of the first things she says. As for Gp's and 'diabetic' nurses I have tried to speak to mine. Actually I've never even seen the GP at all, the dietician I've seen twice both stating the same carb advice. One even said that my BG at 14 after eating All Bran was a blip and couldn't understand it, even said was I sure it was All Bran that I ate.
One of the dieticians even said I was damaging my health by not eating carbs. When i said there were carbs in the veg I ate she looked at me 'gone out'.
My problem is that when they advocate their diet, most people will look at it and think they know best, and leave it at that. I just think its a travesty.
My Gp took one look at my BS level at over 7 and said thats fine we don't treat anyone over 7.
Back at the nurse in the morning for another H1b thing, so this week will find out yet again what it is.

 

[phoenix]

This one?
She also says This advice has caused some controversy among people with T2. She then mentions testing to find out.
[youtube]XGG2OnrOaCA[/youtube]

 

[noblehead]

I think DCUK cover the subject of diet rather well and give the reader a wide selection of diets to choose from or to mix & match, this from the community pages of DCUK:

Diet Guides

A healthy diet is crucial to good diabetes management
Effective management of diabetes cannot be achieved without an appropriate diet.

People with diabetes represent a large subsection of society and there will be range of variety in terms of dietary requirements from person to person.

As a result, there is no one diabetic diet that will work for everyone and people should pick a diet that matches their individual needs.

Ideally, patients with newly diagnosed diabetes should receive advice from a dietitian soon after diagnosis.
Which diet is right for me?
There are a wealth of diets that have proved to be either popular with or of interest for people with diabetes.

We’ve compiled some of the more prominent of these diets, looking at both the benefits and disadvantages of each diet.

Diet for Type 1 Diabetes
Diet for Type 2 Diabetes
Atkins Diet
DASH Diet
Dextox Diet
Dukan Diet
Gluten Free Diet
Glycaemic Index Diet (GI Diet)
Ketogenic Diet
Low Carb Diet
Low Carb High Fat Diet
Low Fat Diet
Mediterranean Diet
Newcastle Study Diet
NHS Diabetes Diet Advice
Paleolithic Diet
Raw Food Diet
South Beach Diet
Vegan Diet
Vegetarian Diet
Very Low Calorie Diet
Zone Diet


Quite a comprehensive list don't you agree!!!!

This thread taken from another diabetes forum does show that most members include some starchy carbs with their meals, the carb value does vary from person to person and indeed from day to day, as you can see very few follow a very restrictive or near-zero carbohydrate diet:

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards ... hp?t=30349

Just because an article or video doesn't say what a person wants to hear doesn't make it wrong, as I said earlier there are no rights and wrongs when it comes to controlling your diabetes.......it is up to the individual to decide which is the best dietary path to choose.

 

[dawnmc]

Thats the one, bit of a joke too as how are we meant to test if we can't afford strips. My partner buys mine as I'm on negligable income, but if he didn't I'd be snookered. Esp, as I'm on diet only.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Have you looked ?
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet-basics.html
Lot of info on the pros and cons of different diets
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet-for-type2-diabetes.html
an article describing some peoples disageement with NHS dietary advice plus info on low carbing.

As the site is a commercial site I'm not sure why you consider that they should be adopting any particular stance.

Nail on head phoenix :thumbup:

Anyone who thinks DCUK is advocating one particular diet clearly hasnt looked at the facts.

We’ve compiled some of the more prominent of these diets, looking at both the benefits and disadvantages of each diet.

Diet for Type 1 Diabetes
Diet for Type 2 Diabetes
Atkins Diet
DASH Diet
Dextox Diet
Dukan Diet
Gluten Free Diet
Glycaemic Index Diet (GI Diet)
Ketogenic Diet
Low Carb Diet
Low Carb High Fat Diet
Low Fat Diet
Mediterranean Diet
Newcastle Study Diet
NHS Diabetes Diet Advice
Paleolithic Diet
Raw Food Diet
South Beach Diet
Vegan Diet
Vegetarian Diet
Very Low Calorie Diet
Zone Diet

It seems that some members here seem to think it should all be done their way despite saying "we are all different" they still want to dictate the way this site promotes which diet to eat.


Edit: Sorry Nigel I must have been typing as you were posting, I wouldnt have bothered posting the quote had I known :crazy:

 

[xyzzy]

When I receive an email video from DCUK that states the case for a lchf diet or a Mediterranean diet and making it clear that in many countries these are an equally valid alternatives to treat diet only T2's as the official "starchy carb" view then I will begin to believe things are changing. Saying starchy carb advise is controversial is by no means the same as actively and equally promoting an alternative.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Thats the one, bit of a joke too as how are we meant to test if we can't afford strips. My partner buys mine as I'm on negligable income, but if he didn't I'd be snookered. Esp, as I'm on diet only.

Sorry Dawn but whilst I understand your frustration over test strip prescriptions that has got nothing to do with the dietary advice given out by the NHS or DCUK.

I too am on a very limited income and although I tested six to eight times a day for the first six months to a year, on prescription I freely admit, but I rarely test now I have it all nailed down and my bg levels are stable, and I am lucky to get one pot every three months now.

Paid for or not its a choice we all have to make but IMO it is the only way to get to know about and understand your own diet.