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Good and Bad Cholesterol and Fats

lucylocket61

lucylocket61

Expert
I saw a link to a BHF article on eggs no longer being bad for making cholesterol. I cant find the link now, but it went on to say that butter, cheese, lard, in fact all animal fats are bad. But it also seemed to say that the fat we eat has little effect on our cholesterol levels anyway :crazy:

Now, I am having lots more protein nowadays, and have stopped all non-animal fats, especially transfats/hydrogenated one. I use a bit of lard or olive oil, full fat mayonaise and cheeses, and have butter instead of spreads/marg

But the British Heart Foundation and my nurse are saying that I should be eating the manufactured fats, and avoiding the natural fats. I think only olive oil is OK?

So has anyone got any links and advice on this please?
 
Lots of recent, well respected meta-studies have failed to demonstrate a link between fat intake and mortality, the most prominent being the Cochrane Review who concluded that eating a reduced-fat diet might reduce the risk of a heart attack, but it probably won't influence your mortality:
http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD002137/ ... rt-disease

I'd also note that there has been very little work done on people increasing their fat intake on a very-low-carb diet (high-fat high-carb is almost certainly a bad idea). Where work has been done it generally finds that blood-lipid profiles significantly improve on a low-carb/high-fat diet compared with a low-fat diet:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37202414/Volek_ ... s_2008.pdf

Most of the sensible advice I listen to involves replacing artificial trans-fats with "healthy" natural fats such as animal fats or coconut fat. I steer away from grain based vegetable oils too.
 
has anyone got any links and advice on this please?
Click to expand...

Two videos worth a look :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCk-nU-b ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32N ... re=related

HCPs can only tell you what they've been told/taught.
Saturated fats have been demonised now for decades.
By the same people who recommended a diet that may have given us diabetes :cry:

For anyone who doesn't know how the story behind how saturated fat came to be the bad guy, and a carbohydrate-based diet the good guy, Gary Taubes' book The Diet Delusion (=same book as Good Calories, Bad Calories) is very illuminating.
This link reviews a key part of that story :

http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/12/22/the-tr ... -it-wrong/

and this link is a quick review of the whole story :

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller38.1.html

That should be enough to keep you going :D

In short - there are NO definitive studies showing saturated fat is bad for you.
There are NO definitive studies showing your HCP's recommendations are heathy.

It's simply up to you to learn enough to make a decision.
Sweden appeared to have a craze for low carb high fat (LCHF)
They might be on to something :D

Geoff
 
Thanks Noblehead and librarising and borofergie. Just the sort of info I needed :D

I still struggle to get my head round the concept that the health professionals who are supposed to be looking out for me are actually giving harmful advice, and have been doing so for years, and nothing seems to be able to be done about stopping them :crazy:

I am trying to avoid statins and cholesterol problems, and the standard NHS advice appears to be guaranteed to cause me to need meds.
 
I have got to be honest, this is one area that I find very difficult..sounds like you are the same Lucy!

I haven't got high cholesterol (at least I don't think I have :think: ) but after hearing the saturated fat mantra for so long, I find it hard to believe anything different. I have also got a strong history of heart disease in the family and the whole thing makes me very nervous.

I don't like the idea of speads instead of butter but have lowered my intake as I really love it too much! I cut fat off my meat because I have a pathological loathing of fat and I find cream very rich.

Unless I have got it wrong, the "low carb/high fat" isn't really adding fat, it's just not avoiding naturally found fats? Put that way it doesn't seem quite so scary. :)
 
Lucy,
I'll give you another link. This isn't to a paper. It is a source that I would say is moderate and takes into account recent research. It doesn't say eat a low fat diet but it does say to choose fats sensibly including smaller portions of those that may be less healthy for us.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... olesterol/
I agree about preferring butter to spreads. I just don't spread very often... when I do then it's butter.


Different people, different opinions You will find advocates of all sorts of views on the internet and sorting out the wheat from the chaff is difficult for any of us. Libra has given some articles to read ;inevitably you can find opposing views.Therein lies the problem. These 2 for example are highly critical of the last source she cites.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... -get-thin/
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... er-review/

edit typos
 
I think that the point is that a "low-carb/high-fat diet" is significantly different from a "high-fat/high-carb" diet. Fat is much worse for you in the presence of high insulin levels (due to carbohydrate injestion) than it is if your insulin levels are low.

Richard Feinman said:
Dietary carbohydrate restriction is the single most effective method (except for total starvation) of reducing triglycerides, and is as effective as any intervention, including most drugs, at increasing HDL and reducing the number of small-dense LDL particles. Beyond lipid markers, carbohydrate restriction improves all of the features of metabolic syndrome.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you Noblehead and librarising, phoenix and borofergie. Lots of links for me to digest and ponder upon.

I have been VLCarbing and like Lucy and ladybird have been reluctant to take the final leap of faith to increase my fat intake. I love butter, cream etc and that's one or the reasons I now have so much weight to loose. :( My blood sugar figures are improving and I am loosing weight but abandoning my low fat regime is difficult.
 
But if you aren't eating many carbs, then you are getting energy from oxidised body fat, instead of fat in your diet. This is a good thing if you're trying to lose weight, but one way or another, the fat is still going to get sloshed around your blood plasma. The good news is, that on a low-carb diet, your metabolism becomes more tuned to burning fat, leading to lower levels of blood triglycerides, even though they are now your major source of energy.
 
Oh borofergie my head hurts!!! Anything with more than 3 syllables seems beyond me to-night, :D

I am going to give it a break for the evening and come back refreshed in the morning to read everything with a clearer mind. My main consolation is that I have time to get everything sorted in my mind. I realise I am in this for the long haul and my test results so far allow my continuing weight loss to be my main consideration at the moment.
 
Since I last posted it came to me that the perfect book for you might be

The Great Cholesterol Con by Dr Malcolm Kendrick

It also covers saturated fat and its benefits.

I haven't read it yet myself, but just reserved online at the library.

Geoff
 
catza said:
I have been VLCarbing and like Lucy and ladybird have been reluctant to take the final leap of faith to increase my fat intake. I love butter, cream etc and that's one or the reasons I now have so much weight to loose. :( My blood sugar figures are improving and I am loosing weight but abandoning my low fat regime is difficult.
Click to expand...

Yep with you there catza. I have recently been very brave and swapped from margarine back to good old fashioned butter! My wife and my own attitude is "low carb high fat but watch the calories" so I have no problem doing a few more carbs than an ultra tight VLC regime by say eating more veg rather than more fat or more white meat rather than more fat or use soya milk in cooking rather than cream etc. What I would say is the "watch the calories" bit is progressively more down to us wanting to lose weight than any real worry that cream or whatever is harmful especially now I've seen that my Cholesterol levels are the best they've been in years. In fact when I reach my target weight and want to stabilise then using cream in cooking rather than soya milk and similar high calorie things sounds like a good option.
 
now I've seen that my Cholesterol levels are the best they've been in years.
Click to expand...

Can I ask if you have been prescribed statins since your diagnosis too and they have helped, or have your cholesterol levels come down as a result of your changes in diet?
 
xyzzy said:
Yep with you there catza. I have recently been very brave and swapped from margarine back to good old fashioned butter! My wife and my own attitude is "low carb high fat but watch the calories" so I have no problem doing a few more carbs than an ultra tight VLC regime by say eating more veg rather than more fat or more white meat rather than more fat or use soya milk in cooking rather than cream etc. What I would say is the "watch the calories" bit is progressively more down to us wanting to lose weight than any real worry that cream or whatever is harmful especially now I've seen that my Cholesterol levels are the best they've been in years. In fact when I reach my target weight and want to stabilise then using cream in cooking rather than soya milk and similar high calorie things sounds like a good option.
Click to expand...

You see, I think one of the least advertised benefits of the low-carb diet is that you don't have to watch your calories - not because calories don't count, but because if you include enough fat and protein in your diet, then you satiety is increased to the extent that you eat less calories than on a conventional diet.

I eat huge meals at lunch and dinner, but I hardly ever snack, and I manage to consistently lose about 3lbs a month.
 
borofergie said:
xyzzy said:
Yep with you there catza. I have recently been very brave and swapped from margarine back to good old fashioned butter! My wife and my own attitude is "low carb high fat but watch the calories" so I have no problem doing a few more carbs than an ultra tight VLC regime by say eating more veg rather than more fat or more white meat rather than more fat or use soya milk in cooking rather than cream etc. What I would say is the "watch the calories" bit is progressively more down to us wanting to lose weight than any real worry that cream or whatever is harmful especially now I've seen that my Cholesterol levels are the best they've been in years. In fact when I reach my target weight and want to stabilise then using cream in cooking rather than soya milk and similar high calorie things sounds like a good option.
Click to expand...

You see, I think one of the least advertised benefits of the low-carb diet is that you don't have to watch your calories - not because calories don't count, but because if you include enough fat and protein in your diet, then you satiety is increased to the extent that you eat less calories than on a conventional diet.

I eat huge meals at lunch and dinner, but I hardly ever snack, and I manage to consistently lose about 3lbs a month.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. I never eat breakfast so only had lunch and dinner. The only time I really snacked was what would have been supper time. I would have some ham and Philly wraps or a sugar free jelly. My weight slid off.
 
I'm one of those people for whom the first time I very low carbed was a 'once in a lifetime shot'. :(

I just tried Atkins out of curiosity a few years ago and I was losing over a pound a day.
Not fully understanding the implications then, I eventually drifted off course and began to eat carby stuff again and eventually the weight came back on.

I've tried really, really hard to very low carb again a couple of times since then (and again now), but once I've lost the predictable 'water weight', I plateau and that's it. Despite being an avid reader of Atkins, Taubes, Eades et al I find that it just doesn't work for me any more. However I do find that I feel a lot better inside when I'm low carbing. The bloating disappears, the aches and pains go away and the snoring stops.

So it's mainly for that reason that my chosen diet (as in eating regime, not weight-loss program) is low carb.

I'd love to hear of someone who had the same problem and then it suddenly started working again! :cry:
 
lucylocket61 said:
now I've seen that my Cholesterol levels are the best they've been in years.
Click to expand...

Can I ask if you have been prescribed statins since your diagnosis too and they have helped, or have your cholesterol levels come down as a result of your changes in diet?
Click to expand...

In my case the answer would be Yes and Yes.

I have been on statins since diagnosis but I have noted that my Cholesterol levels have improved as my BG control has improved and both have got better year on year.

I am on a reduced/low carb increased protein diet which includes a lot of eggs.
I also eat quite a lot of bacon and sausages (which have potetial issues with being processed meats).
When I have butter it is spreadable butter (butter let down with a little vegetable oil).
I have cream with puddings (when I have them) and cook mainly with olive oil.

I avoid spreads because each time I read the ingredients list I fall asleep before the end and decided that I'll stick with something a little less chemical.
I also try and avoid trans fats where possible - apart from occasional supermarked curries I cook most meals from scratch and (obviously?) don't eat most of the sources of processed trans fats such as cakes, pastries.

I checked http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2145.aspx?CategoryID=51&SubCategoryID=167 to see what the NHS said about trans fats and was then confused :-)

Trans fats can be found naturally at low levels in some foods, such as those from animals, including meat and dairy products.
Click to expand...
and
If you want to reduce your intake of trans fats you should:

avoid products that list hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated fat or oil on the label
include lots of fruit and vegetables in your diet
:?: use fat-free or low-fat dairy products :?:
when eating out try to eat less fried foods
try to eat fewer biscuits, cakes and pastries
use liquid vegetable oil for frying
Click to expand...
I'm O.K. with everything on the list apart from using dairy products that have been mucked about with.
If the natural trans fats are at a low level, then why eat mucked about with dairy products?
IMHO low/no fat dairy products have other stuff (including bulking and sweetening) added to try and maintain flavour and consistency. So natural is best.

Up to know, I have thought of myself as being on a Low Carb High Fat diet but reviewing what I eat for this thread I am thinking that I'm not really slamming in the fats - it might be more correct to describe it as a Low Carb High Protein diet which is also less likely to scare the HCPs who always twitch when you use the term 'High Fat'.
I assume that 'High Fat' was chosen for impact and to emphasise the opposite approach to High Carb Low Fat diets.
Snappier than 'avoid carbs, not natural fats' or similar.

Oops!
A short response on statins has turned into a long ramble. :oops:

Anyway, most of it is on topic.

Cheers

LGC
 
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