grains and carbs harmed me

coleyd · Feb 21, 2017

Hiya

I was vegetarian and vegan for a good few years on and off but mostly on and to be honest I'm shocked my body hasn't responded better . My mum who is heavier and ate worse than me had lower cholesterol and no blood sugar issues and I was the one who always watched my diet and my sugar intake . So could my diet of carbs and grains and natural sugars of helped this all escalate when I think I was doing good !

Squire Fulwood · Feb 21, 2017

coleyd said:
Hiya

I was vegetarian and vegan for a good few years on and off but mostly on and to be honest I'm shocked my body hasn't responded better . My mum who is heavier and ate worse than me had lower cholesterol and no blood sugar issues and I was the one who always watched my diet and my sugar intake . So could my diet of carbs and grains and natural sugars of helped this all escalate when I think I was doing good !

I suppose it could have. You are now intolerant of some of those foods so I suppose you might have always been creeping up to the point you are now.

azure · Feb 21, 2017

There's no way to know @coleyd You can't go back in time and eat a different way, and if you did maybe that would have caused other issues.

Focus on the future and don't blame yourself. X

ickihun · Feb 21, 2017

coleyd said:
Hiya

I was vegetarian and vegan for a good few years on and off but mostly on and to be honest I'm shocked my body hasn't responded better . My mum who is heavier and ate worse than me had lower cholesterol and no blood sugar issues and I was the one who always watched my diet and my sugar intake . So could my diet of carbs and grains and natural sugars of helped this all escalate when I think I was doing good !

Just remember we are all different. She can get awaywith her diet, for now. Me and you cannot tolerate porridge or seeded bread without a large bg rise.
We have to just deal with what our body gives us. Manage its weaknesses and support a healthy diet for our own individual needs.
It can be done. I know seems unfair. Ive been conscious of what i eat, most of mylife. Sisters and mum eat anything.

Art Of Flowers · Feb 21, 2017

I am a vegetarian and have reduced quite a few foods to have a low carb diet including: bread, rice, pasta, potatoes and drinking orange juice.

Many fruits are high in carbs, especially bananas. Berries such as blueberries and strawberries are low carb.

bulkbiker · Feb 21, 2017

phonic2k said:
I used to be a strict vegetarian, and eat too much of the veg products on the market not understanding the high carb and high sugar and high everything these are, and end up so obese, and messed up my poor pancreas too. They are no better than junk food. I now eat fish and chicken and better for it.

Correct me if I'm wrong Squire Fulwood but: I don't understand the use of the word 'intolerant' when referring to type 2 diabetes, is it's not a food allergy, but years of insulin resistance building up in the background to a point the pancreas can't keep up, or gets blocked up with too much fat. Some foods are higher GI than others, making them spike blood faster, while low GI releases carbs more slowly into the blood thus avoiding the spike you would get with higher GI foods like white flour products.

I would say my body is carbohydrate intolerant as my blood sugar goes up if I eat them. They don't do me any good.. much as if I were gluten intolerant and ate gluten. Personally I think a carb is a carb whatever its GI and avoid them all.. Brown or white they don't agree with me.

Bluetit1802 · Feb 21, 2017

phonic2k said:
Some foods are higher GI than others, making them spike blood faster, while low GI releases carbs more slowly into the blood thus avoiding the spike you would get with higher GI foods like white flour products.

A few non-insulin/Gliclazide users can tolerate a few low GI carbs, but the majority of us cannot. They may be slower in releasing the glucose, but they still release it, albeit a bit later. A slice of heavily seeded low GI bread has an equal amount of carbs (and therefore glucose) as a piece of white bread. It will all end up in the blood stream. I agree you may not spike so high at, for example 2 hours, but you will rise and your rise will last a lot longer. Brown or white, low GI or high GI makes nil difference to me, having no meds to help me.

coleyd · Feb 21, 2017

I made the diet doctor blueberries smoothie and had 1 slice burgen fir lunch with butter and philadephia and I shot from 5.3 to 9.2 within 3 hours that's all I had smoothie had water full fat Greek yogurt maybe 1/3 rd cup blueberries and 7 tbsp coconut / rice milk could it he thr rice milk or small amount bread who knows

Bluetit1802 · Feb 21, 2017

coleyd said:
I made the diet doctor blueberries smoothie and had 1 slice burgen fir lunch with butter and philadephia and I shot from 5.3 to 9.2 within 3 hours that's all I had smoothie had water full fat Greek yogurt maybe 1/3 rd cup blueberries and 7 tbsp coconut / rice milk could it he thr rice milk or small amount bread who knows

I would suggest the smoothie as a whole. Squashed fruit is not a wise idea to be honest, and blueberries are already quite sugary, so by smoothing them you released the sugar very quickly. This is why all fruit juices are danger foods for us. The other carbs from the yogurt, bread and rice milk will not have helped. Did you count up the carbs?

Avocado Sevenfold · Feb 21, 2017

coleyd said:
Hiya

I was vegetarian and vegan for a good few years on and off but mostly on and to be honest I'm shocked my body hasn't responded better . My mum who is heavier and ate worse than me had lower cholesterol and no blood sugar issues and I was the one who always watched my diet and my sugar intake . So could my diet of carbs and grains and natural sugars of helped this all escalate when I think I was doing good !

There are many vegetarians and vegans in my family, but I am the only one with diabetes. I suspect that having elevated cortisol levels for decades may have caused mine. I see a lot of diabetic people with anxiety disorders on the internet. Makes me wonder.

Bluetit1802 · Feb 21, 2017

phonic2k said:
Hi @Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker

I used to spike to 11mmol/l with only one slice of Burgen bread(11g), but with exercise and weight loss it got better, and better and these days I can eat 5 slices+ and still would not hit above 5s like this morning I had 3x slices Burgen, 100g of blueberries, 2 tomatoes, cheese, and only hit 5.1mmol/l. From what I've researched last year I do strongly feel that the problem has to do with insulin resistance, than an intolerance to food, as the more insulin resistant the body becomes the more insulin it needs and if it can't cope with it, you go up and up until it can make enough insulin to overcome the resistance and bring your blood sugar level down. I've also read that eating little carbs, and higher fat can make it worse, and the reason I never went down the ultra low carb route.

I can also eat foods now that used to take me to high levels. Now they don't. I agree it is insulin resistance, so the less carbs you eat the less insulin is needed and the IR disappears, albeit slowly in some people. I am low carb high fat. It shows how we all have different metabolisms.

BrianTheElder · Feb 21, 2017

phonic2k said:
Hi @Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker

I've also read that eating little carbs, and higher fat can make it worse, and the reason I never went down the ultra low carb route.

Hi that's interesting. Can you tell me where you read that, please? I have a suspicion that getting your body used to extremely low carbs may actually make it more sensitive to them.. Although what that would mean in practise, I'm not sure, perhaps it may cause a large insulin response, which could be a problem.

Bluetit1802 · Feb 21, 2017

BrianTheElder said:
Hi that's interesting. Can you tell me where you read that, please? I have a suspicion that getting your body used to extremely low carbs may actually make it more sensitive to them.. Although what that would mean in practise, I'm not sure, perhaps it may cause a large insulin response, which could be a problem.

I think maybe she is referring to Physiological Insulin Resistance (as opposed to diabetic insulin resistance). They are not the same thing. You can Google PIR for more details. It can happen on a very low carb diet, but is easily remedied. It happened to me 12 months ago when my base levels suddenly notched up noticeably without any change to routine, yet the actual rises from before meals to after meals dropped a tad, and stayed that way for a few weeks until I was advised of a remedy. Just a couple of days with extra carbs sorted it, then back to low carb again. It hasn't happened again.

bulkbiker · Feb 21, 2017

phonic2k said:
Hi @Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker

I used to spike to 11mmol/l with only one slice of Burgen bread(11g), but with exercise and weight loss it got better, and better and these days I can eat 5 slices+ and still would not hit above 5s like this morning I had 3x slices Burgen, 100g of blueberries, 2 tomatoes, cheese, and only hit 5.1mmol/l. From what I've researched last year I do strongly feel that the problem has to do with insulin resistance, than an intolerance to food, as the more insulin resistant the body becomes the more insulin it needs and if it can't cope with it, you go up and up until it can make enough insulin to overcome the resistance and bring your blood sugar level down. I've also read that eating little carbs, and higher fat can make it worse, and the reason I never went down the ultra low carb route.

what kind of weight loss did you experience to achieve that?

Brunneria · Feb 21, 2017

I'm perfectly happy with people referring to my t2 as carb intolerance.

Is it technically accurate? Possibly not. And we have had mind bogglingly boring threads debating the subject, with posters letting their inner pedants have FULL reign!

But carb intolerance is an easily understood concept for non diabetics. The root cause of my T2 may be insulin resistance, but the effect is clear: my body is unable to tolerate carbohydrate foods. The result is that my blood glucose rises with unfortunate consequences. And one of those consequences is a further rise in insulin resistance.

'Intolerance' describes it very clearly.

Bluetit1802 · Feb 21, 2017

Brunneria said:
I'm perfectly happy with people referring to my t2 as carb intolerance.

Is it technically accurate? Possibly not. And we have had mind bogglingly boring threads debating the subject, with posters letting their inner pedants have FULL reign!

But carb intolerance is an easily understood concept for non diabetics. The root cause of my T2 may be insulin resistance, but the effect is clear: my body is unable to tolerate carbohydrate foods. The result is that my blood glucose rises with unfortunate consequences. And one of those consequences is a further rise in insulin resistance.

'Intolerance' describes it very clearly.

I agree. It is far easier to explain to people that I am carb intolerant (when they think I'm being picky with my food) than go in to great detail about insulin resistance and all that entails. I have tried that and it falls on deaf ears. I'll take the easy way any time.

bulkbiker · Feb 22, 2017

phonic2k said:
I lost over 40kg in 4-5 months, most rapid part was in the first months... some say too fast, but I was very focus and determined.
My BMI was well over the 30s last year, and looking at my logs and BMI chart, the biggest change happened when my BMI dropped below 27, then happened again when I hit 25. I cut all junk food and white flour products, and then went on an intense exercise workout every day without fail. Interestingly my rating heart rate is much lower these days in the low 50s, used to be much much higher embarrassingly higher, my heart was not working efficiently at all.

Interesting and that was all on V low cal? I have lost a similar amount circa 45kg but BMI still at 30 (I was obviously heavier than you) but still can't eat as you do.. My aim is to get to BMI of about 27. Will have to see what happens then but I can;t imagine going back to eating carbs anyway. I rather enjoy this new way of eating..

Sid Bonkers · Feb 22, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
There are many vegetarians and vegans in my family, but I am the only one with diabetes. I suspect that having elevated cortisol levels for decades may have caused mine. I see a lot of diabetic people with anxiety disorders on the internet. Makes me wonder.

I know that raised cortisol levels caused my T2 diabetes as I was a long term user of the corticosteroid 'Prednisolone' so you might just be on to something here as Steroid Induced Diabetes (SID - no relation) is well known and documented, I suppose it could be likely that anything else that causes a continued raise in cortisol levels might also be a factor.

Ive never considered that before, interesting.........

zand · Feb 22, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
There are many vegetarians and vegans in my family, but I am the only one with diabetes. I suspect that having elevated cortisol levels for decades may have caused mine. I see a lot of diabetic people with anxiety disorders on the internet. Makes me wonder.

Yes I am convinced that this is what happened in my case too. It makes sense that mental health and physical health are linked and is yet anohter reason why mental health issues should be taken more seriously.

ickihun · Feb 22, 2017

Avocado Sevenfold said:
There are many vegetarians and vegans in my family, but I am the only one with diabetes. I suspect that having elevated cortisol levels for decades may have caused mine. I see a lot of diabetic people with anxiety disorders on the internet. Makes me wonder.

I think so too. My partner is vocally anxious. I bottle it up as enough around already. Very dangerous stress!

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