Great Desmond Course and Coping

Listlad

BANNED
Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
........my diabetes was diagnosed shortly after those problems surfaced...the difference in the level of care & support (minimal & indifferent) I received for my diabetes fell far below the standard of the other departments...it does seem like we're pretty much left on our own to figure out how best to deal with it
It wasn’t great for me either, in many ways. It was only coincidences and some luck that led to my reversal. I am now trying to change things at surgery level. I thought it might be possible and I am beginning to believe it is possible. In fact right now it is looking quite likely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HarryBeau

New Haven Neil

Well-Known Member
Messages
126
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Arrogance, awkward people
@bulkbiker - can't copy your post yet as I haven't made enough posts.

Thanks for that. I'm a biker too - that's why I live on the Isle of Man.

I have been cutting back on carbs, eating a healthier diet and have lost 4 pounds this last 2 weeks. I could lose, say, another two stone....oops. I'm 13.10 now and 5'10' and a bit, so BMI isn't great. I have been walking as much as my mashed foot will allow, I managed 4 miles today. I'm learning a little now about what is causing my high BG, bread and white rice/pasta and bananas are now banned!
 

jjraak

Expert
Messages
7,489
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I would agree that doctors who have not embraced change or who are not prepared to refer patients where their knowledge is deficient could be accused of negligence

While I don't think @Bubbsie , or anyone was honestly saying it was MEANT to be harmful.
KNOWING a treatment exist that for many has offered great benefit, and yet still being determined to send patients down another path that offers dubious benefits over LC/LCHF and increased risks of complications, is a little bit more then negligent, imho.

That's a sector blinding itself to any other way DESPITE the harm it can / could do to the patient.

I'm not surprised many. are cynical, @Mr_Pot,

After all medicine has progressed tremendously over the years.


Treatments, equipment evolves, so WHY aren't we at least seeing real life trials of the effictiveness of THIS way of eating, rather then the same old "eat more carbs, take more meds" mantra....?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: HSSS

Listlad

BANNED
Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
While I don't think @Bubbsie , or anyone was honestly saying it was MEANT to be harmful.
KNOWING a treatment exist that fur many had offered great benefit, and still being determined to send patients down another path that offers dubious benefits over LC/LCHF and increased risks of complications, is a little bit more then negligent, imho
That's a sector blinding itself to any other way DESPITE the harm it can could the patient.

Im not surprised many. are cynical, @Mr_Pot,

After all medicine has progressed tremendously over the years.


Treatments, equipment evolves, so WHY aren't we at least seeing real life trials of the effictiveness of THIS way of eating, rather then the same old "eat more carbs, take more meds" mantra....?
Well said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjraak

Listlad

BANNED
Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
@bulkbiker - can't copy your post yet as I haven't made enough posts.

Thanks for that. I'm a biker too - that's why I live on the Isle of Man.

I have been cutting back on carbs, eating a healthier diet and have lost 4 pounds this last 2 weeks. I could lose, say, another two stone....oops. I'm 13.10 now and 5'10' and a bit, so BMI isn't great. I have been walking as much as my mashed foot will allow, I managed 4 miles today. I'm learning a little now about what is causing my high BG, bread and white rice/pasta and bananas are now banned!
I lived there a few years back. My first high reading was acquired there. Promenade. They then “prescribed” an Eatwell type diet which helped but didn’t completely get me to levels well outside of the Prediabetes range.
 

jjraak

Expert
Messages
7,489
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Our NHS relies on private practice far too much so it's often about ticking those contractual boxes...meeting those contractual obligations...as GP' surgeries are essentially private practices with the NHS as their biggest contractor I feel there is little room for deviation from standard NHS advice which in respect of my diabetes doesn't work for me & many others here...there are also the local CCGs who dictate how surgeries will spend their budgets although not a statutory body I often wonder what would/could they do if GP practices didn't tow their line...there are a few surgeries who are more enlightened and embrace alternative ways to manage T2 those are few & far between...for me there no doubt T2's are not given the best when it comes to managing their diabetes...the courses are often unfit for purpose...the advice is out dated & archaic the disinterest shown when you hear 'well you might as well take the medication as it will progress irrespective' is not the best care considering this condition can lead to horrifying long term consequences if not addressed...GP's/DSN's need to make more effort and offer more effective care to T2's.

Couldn't agree more...Bravo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HarryBeau

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,471
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Welcome @New Haven Neil

I'm learning a little now about what is causing my high BG, bread and white rice/pasta and bananas are now banned!
. It’s a really good idea to keep testing as the proof is right there in front of you. It identifies just what each food does to you personally. If you do you’ll almost certainly find rice /pasta and probably potatoes of all colours not just white will be causing high numbers. They may rise a little tiny bit slower but still contain as many carbs.
 

HarryBeau

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,815
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
oh another overweight bloke with T2' (14st 5'10'). We'll see how things develop, I'm hopeful we can have a better relationship than the first appointment felt.

Doesn't feel too good does it, at first!
Neil you can do your own research...there is so much information available so when you attend your course & your next appointment with the DSN you be well informed.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I'm learning a little now about what is causing my high BG, bread and white rice/pasta and bananas are now banned!
I'm afraid whatever the colour bread, rice and pasta will likely have a deleterious effect on your blood sugars as will most fruit aside from raspberries and strawberries in limited quantities. I just fill up on meat, fish, eggs etc most of the time and leave the rest out, Green veg can be included if desired (although these days they are rare if ever for me).
 

jjraak

Expert
Messages
7,489
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
A similar note here for my Desmond course.
I was totally naive carbs etc..
But day one of DX, I was on it with Dr Google.
I found so much information, that by the time I got to course I had already rejected the eat well plate advice AND after some searching lucked upon the forum.

Desmond course was ok in that it was nice to be with others on same boat, but most seemed to be resigned to their fate, and seemed happy to go down the meds avenue route.

I seemed the only one asking questions that challenged the assertion that we could eat so many carbs..( but if I'm honest I wasn't that confident to really argue any real points.)

Day was of interest but I probably knew more then most there...
rather depressing to see so many seemed indifferent to their own health, or so it seemed.

Trainers pleasant, and are end of second course quite curious about what route the forum offered.
 

New Haven Neil

Well-Known Member
Messages
126
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Arrogance, awkward people
Bulkbiker, I find that bread, bananas and potatoes are doing the most damage after three weeks close monitoring. I don't need to bring things down a lot as HBA1C was 6.8%, my BG through the day is often around 5. The odd thing is waking levels, always higher than the lunchtime and evening tests, and averages 6.3 currently, but falling as I learn my intolerances.

I have a DESMOND appointment for....October. No hurry there then! By then I expect to make a nuisance of myself with lots of questions. Did I mention I used to manage a Podiatry department....LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dr Snoddy

HarryBeau

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,815
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
By then I expect to make a nuisance of myself with lots of questions.
Most likely they will tell you there's no time...or they aret he experts...or there are no proven results of the benefit of a LCHF diet...and that scientific studies indicate T2's do not need to test based on the Farmer et al report which monitored a group of T2's for three months without testing...then monitored the same groups for another three months with testing there was no significant improvement for those that monitored their BG...it's not surprising the group were not allowed to alter their diets when they began to test their BG...so of course the results would be the same...it was a study that was set up to fail from the onset...good luck with DESMOND you'll need it.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Bulkbiker, I find that bread, bananas and potatoes are doing the most damage after three weeks close monitoring. I don't need to bring things down a lot as HBA1C was 6.8%, my BG through the day is often around 5. The odd thing is waking levels, always higher than the lunchtime and evening tests, and averages 6.3 currently, but falling as I learn my intolerances.

I have a DESMOND appointment for....October. No hurry there then! By then I expect to make a nuisance of myself with lots of questions. Did I mention I used to manage a Podiatry department....LOL
I'm not in the slightest bit surprised by that.... but 6.8% is still in the T2 range I prefer to have a bit of wiggle room.
My last one was 4.6% which is where I've been for the past few years.
Never been on a Desmond although the surgery was muttering something about a group of us doing one so we could assess where current information is before starting a low carb group. If you stick with us you'll probably be in remission by thenyway so you won't need to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DawnOfTheZed

HSSS

Expert
Messages
7,471
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Bulkbiker, I find that bread, bananas and potatoes are doing the most damage after three weeks close monitoring. I don't need to bring things down a lot as HBA1C was 6.8%, my BG through the day is often around 5. The odd thing is waking levels, always higher than the lunchtime and evening tests, and averages 6.3 currently, but falling as I learn my intolerances.

I have a DESMOND appointment for....October. No hurry there then! By then I expect to make a nuisance of myself with lots of questions. Did I mention I used to manage a Podiatry department....LOL

Mine wasn’t a huge amount higher (7.2 or 55mmol) and I went straight down to keto and have only just got to normal levels. Others much much higher starting out got lower in the same or less time. There’s more in it than just the starting point for some of us. I’ve always been a little stubborn though so not surprised this is no different . Morning levels are often the highest and the last to come into line. Do a search on dawn phenomenon. Fundamentally the liver feeds us all a glucose breakfast before we wake/on rising to get us up and going. Some of us fail to say thank you nicely enough , ie respond properly, and it keeps on chucking the glucose out beyond what we need.

My course was 3 months after diagnosis and I’d just had confirmation of the fall in my levels to prediabetic levels via keto. It was “interesting “
 
  • Like
Reactions: DawnOfTheZed

Listlad

BANNED
Messages
3,971
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Did I mention I used to manage a Podiatry department....LOL
I used a podiatrist in IOM. One in Douglas. He was okay, fairly basic. I had been recommended the new place down by the quay near Tesco but it was awfully expensive. By sheer coincidence my next door neighbour is from the Isle of Man and a podiatrist with his own practice here on the mainland. :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: DawnOfTheZed

moori

Member
Messages
15
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi,
Welcome to Diabetes! :)
I would just like to share my experience, at the age of 19, I was diagnosed with T2. 6 month later, i was T1!
Good luck for your journey...
 
  • Like
Reactions: New Haven Neil

New Haven Neil

Well-Known Member
Messages
126
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Arrogance, awkward people
I used a podiatrist in IOM. One in Douglas. He was okay, fairly basic. I had been recommended the new place down by the quay near Tesco but it was awfully expensive. By sheer coincidence my next door neighbour is from the Isle of Man and a podiatrist with his own practice here on the mainland. :D

Sorry I missed your reply. Diabetes obsessed.....trawling around the interweb too much.

I was admin manager for Podiatry for Newcastle City Health before I came to the island in 2002. We were doing 50,000 appointments a year, I was 'a touch' stressed! That was why I left before it killed me. I also have had a really nasty foot injury 2 years ago (Lisfranc fracture) in which I almost lost half my left foot, so it is closely monitored anyway by the orthopaedic team. My awareness is heightened due to all that so if I had a foot issue I would be aware of it so I won't bother paying for private.
 

JenniferW

Well-Known Member
Messages
561
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi

... wouldn't it be great if all Dr's & Diabetic Nurses were uptodate and gave out CORRECT medical advice re diabetes and how to manage it! Instead you get a mish -mash of outdated rubbish....

In my recent T2 annual review, because my HbA1c has gone up now to 52, the nurse started talking about going onto Metformin. I was diagnosed in 2015 and kept at 46-47-48 until the last 6 months (and I have some understanding of why). So I said, could I have 3 months to change my diet and have a re-test before anything else. The diabetic nurse agreed, didn't ask me anything about what I'd tried so far, how I'd got on (or not), and rushed off to get me a photocopy of a 4-year old article, 'Dr Unwin's patient diet sheet: ignore the box of chocolates they got as a prize!'

I walked out so angry! And I'm still exploding, so apologies if I've wandered off-topic! My GP's lack of intelligent and up-to-date support drives me crazy.