Had my first appointment with the Diabetic Dietician today!

katherine

I

Okay, Ally this is my proposal.

What I suggest is that you analyse the diet of one subject at a time. This subject will be a conglomeration of a typical days diet for a specific spectrum of total daily carb intake. Instead of a 4 day menu of a single person's meals I will ask that four posters contribute one days meal plan that is typical for them. If you need their genders/weights or anything else please just ask what you need to know from them. We should simply ask and wait for volunteers to respond. You can then use the mean weight/gender etc to do your sums.

You are therefore NOT analysing any particular persons diet, just the range presented.
Forum members can then compare the analysed diet to what they eat themselves.
You can make whatever recommendation you like. It is up to individual members to decide whether or not they change their diet/supplements accordingly.

There is quite a lot of information, particularly in Gary Taubes book about how eg vitamin c requirements or calcium absorption for example can be very different in mainly meat eating people compared to those who eat a mainly refined carb diet. Those people who think that they have information that could modify your recommendations should have a place to say so. But they should reference their information so as to keep matters as scientifically based and as objective as possible.

Win - win?

Katharine.

ok get the info for me but give me a few days - I have a mega few weeks coming up with a desmond course , teaching on a sports science degree , clinics and alot of athlete development squad days
ally

ps - when you keep a food diary it needs to very specific - every thing you eat and drink - include all veggies and amounts. Don't forget any milk, cream etc . Also i like one of the days on the weekend as they will often be different . And any alcohol.

You can count me in, ladies.

I can give you accurate menus including all weights and volumes. I can give you my pre-low carb and post low-carb daily intakes and even throw in full lipid panels for each if you ask me nicely.

If you can promise no water boarding or unneccesary application of elecrodes to genitalia, then I'm a volunteer lab rat.

fergus

Trinkwasser said:

graham64 said:

[
Hi Trink,
I can give you the results of my last Chol check, seeing I was on simvastatin (had to come off due to severe side effects) that played a part in the results.
Total Chol 4.0
Trigs 0.79
HDL 1.65
LDL 1.99
Ratio 2.4

Regards Graham

Click to expand...

.snip.........

The important ratio is trigs/HDL which should be below 1.2 or 1.3 (I forget, I'm so used to dealing with Yanks and their different numbers) anyway yours is below 0.5 so I predict you will live forever

Can you have negative insulin resistance? <G>

Click to expand...

Just a point about the appropriate ratio.

The only figures I've been able to find are in the gram scale
the triglyceride/HDL ratio:
2 or less is considered ideal
4 - high
6 - much too high
I tried (not very hard )to find a table in mmol. ( I suppose you could work it out)


Grahams results are very similar to mine but I have mine in both mmol and g/l
my results:
In mmol/l trigs 0.73 HDl 1.59 ratio = 0.46
In g/l trigs 0.64, HDL 0.62 ratio 1.03

We're both below 2 so apparently ideal..
Incidently I'm fairly insulin sensitive, but the use of the ratio to predict insulin resistance is disputed in recent research. eg http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Starting today:
0030 - water
0500 - water
0830 - water - BS 5.3
0930 - water
1015 - water - BS 6.1
1100 - blood test
1120- TEA

This post is back on page 8 & may have been missed.

What I would like to see is Ally's professional approach used to create a reduced carb diet, taking into account the caveats she regular uses to discourage low carbing.

IanD said:

Ally,

What that study shows is that carb reduction benefits T2s at least for the duration of the study. Most of us who have reduced carb would agree with that conclusion, & you have repeatedly advised carb control.

Presumably NONE of the subjects suffered adversely, or that would have been stated.

It is well known that higher BGs are the cause of all the health hazards for diabetics.

The report caveat is simply that they do have have data for long term carb reduction.

If short term data indicates benefits, surely they should pursue long term data.

Rather than therefore put the report in the back of the filing cabinet, "they" should set about gathering long term data to see if there are any long term negatives.

An alternative diabetic diet should be drawn up based around restricted carbs, taking into account the possible restriction of vitamins & minerals, & excess protein & fat, so that diabetics have a professionally guided option for BS control.

Such a diet should indicate side effects & counter indications that should be reported to the HPs.

If vitamin/mineral deficits are expected, there are enough diabetics for the manufacturers to justify a diabetic multi v/m supplement. I take the standard supplement anyway.

For me, the short term effect has been restoration of my active life. That has wonderfully corrected the long term effect of the NHS diabetes diet that was leading to neuropathy & disablement. i.e. the end of my active life.

Click to expand...

Hi -

That's fine Ally,

I'll be off to have my roast beef and russet apple/gorgonzola pretty soon too.

Would you like to start a new thread so that the data and analysis can be entered there?I can see that the info could be very useful for future members of this forum, not just for existing members.

"Could I be missing something from my diet?" Would be a suggestion for the title.

What would be helpful is if you could formulate a table with the information each person would fill in for their "day".

I would think it is best to start with the low range of carbing and increase upwards. Given that refined carbs are the least nutrient dense foods I can see that the high range of carb intake could be even more problematic than the very low range. This is just an expectation of course and we will have to run the data to see.

So, lets see what needs to go into the table. It would be a pity to miss important stuff and have to redo things due to insufficient planning. Of course, it is very important that you take as much time as you need and get things as accurate as possible. It will also be much easier for our dietary guinea pigs ( oops, subjects )to do the food weighing and so forth in detail for one day each rather than four in a row.


Calling anyone who eats 20 g of carb a day or less.


user name
gender
height
weight
age
usual activity level: total slob/sedentary/active/very active/athletic

meal plan

breakfast

lunch

dinner

bedtime snack

other snacks

Include:

What you ate, how much you ate, carb count if you know it, what you drank, how much you drank, carb/alcohol content if you know it.

Does this sound right to you?

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve the methodology of this investigation?

Speak up, good planning makes a hell of a difference to getting investigations/research to run smoothly.

This is a research project even if on a small scale.

Thank you,


Katharine.

This is exciting!

I've been rocking the under 20g carbs thing and I'm feeling great for it! I will keep detailed notes over the next few days and get posting with my meals

Katie (type 1, low-carb and intrigued)

ally5555 said:

Please - the ADA rec is not used here so please dont quote it!

Click to expand...

This is a pity since they have actually *lowered* their carb recommendations from 250 - 300g/day to 135g/day and are recommending substituting mono and polyunsaturated fats and high fibre vegetables - I suspect John Buse has actually been listening to what diabetics actually do and the research they use

DUK might get around to doing this in another ten years

phoenix said:

Trinkwasser said:

The important ratio is trigs/HDL which should be below 1.2 or 1.3 (I forget, I'm so used to dealing with Yanks and their different numbers) anyway yours is below 0.5 so I predict you will live forever

Can you have negative insulin resistance? <G>

Click to expand...

Just a point about the appropriate ratio.

The only figures I've been able to find are in the gram scale
the triglyceride/HDL ratio:
2 or less is considered ideal
4 - high
6 - much too high
I tried (not very hard )to find a table in mmol. ( I suppose you could work it out)

Click to expand...

The numbers my Yank colleagues go by is a ratio of 3. That translates to 1.3 in UK numbers

On that scale my ratio went from over 15 to around unity through diet alone.

Hiya Eddie,

II eat a moderate amount of protein and enough fats to keep me satiated. I can't handle any carbs in the morning so that really brings the values down (so it's eggs or a tofu shake). Lunch is always a big salad and protein and dinner usually a lot of cooked veg (and meat/fish/tofu) maybe followed by s/f jelly and cream or a bit of cheese (and wine!). I don't generally snack and if I do it's maybe celery and cheese or some seaweed sheets (don't laugh!). Since my last post I've been having a wee think and I may have underestimated carb values slightly (forgot about the small amounts of milk in tea and the small amounts in miso soup that I have almost every day) but it's definately under 30 (I'm trying very hard for the moment to stick to the amounts Bernstein recommends at lunch and dinner). But I guess this is why a research project such as is being proposed is a great idea - it forces one to have a really good look at one's diet in detail and get a true picture of what's going on.

Katie

t

No offence taken at all Eddie! In fact it's good that you're forcing me to critically interogate my diet!
I take carb values mostly from packets and from the collins carb counter and I have been weighing everything using electronic scales.

Let's see, today I've had:

B/fast:
2 eggs scrambled with big pat of butter
2 thin slices smoked salmon
Cup of tea with splash of full fat milk.
Carbs: O (except milk)

Lunch
Miso soup with wakame (4g)
1/2 bag mixed lettuce (1.1g)
1/4 red pepper (1.5)
1 Celery stick (1)
2 spring onions (1)
2 slices turkey (0)
Olive oil/white wine vinegar/garlic dressing (0)
Redbush tea (0)

So I think that's under 9g carb so far today (not inc. milk in one cup of tea). But let me know if you think I'm wrong - I'm still learning!

Dinner tonight will be haddock with butter, broccoli and cali followed maybe by some stinky blue cheese and a glass of red wine. Will let you know!

Katie.

We need to take this very seriously.

I have just ordered a "Salter 1450 Nutri-Weigh" as recommended on p. 42 of Sweet.

Hopefully ALL the antagonism will stop, as we work together for the benefit of diabetics everywhere. This site may not have a "low carb philosophy" but what I learned here about reduced carb has restored my active life.

I would not like to see a separate low carb forum, as the ordinary diabetic won't get there.

Eddie,

It always surprises me just how few carbs I am actually consuming - I'm never hungry and eat quite large portions! Before this my bfast was a big bowl of salty porridge - I sometimes think I miss it but the results on my meter are a constant reminder that this is the way forward

Do let me know your carb values - it's very interesting to hear what others are eating/doing.

Katie :wink:

I've had a good low carb day.
B/fast I microwave scrambled egg
cup of tea
morning coffee
lunch
Green salad
pastrami
afternoon
Macanuts
dinner Will be fried cod( without batter homemade)
green peas and beans( fresh)