Hard to believe!!!!

Heretic1 said:

Thoughts?

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Frankly I am amazed that you know of so many forum members who apparently smoke, and I'm even more amazed you would care less.

Each to their own I guess.

I'm not sure you really "get" this forum, or come to think of it probably any forum on the Internet.

This forum is all about supporting each other through the difficult journey we have.

Most comments about HCP's are more tongue in cheek than anything else, and as presumably we have all been there most of us understand the frustration sometimes felt with the system.

I agree, that sometimes posters can go overboard pushing what they see as the way to live with the disease, but it should always be seen as what it always is. Support and guidance.

We are all fighting the same battle. We will all take a different path, but we will all be trying to reach the same goal.

Trying to accentuate the differences and trying to find things to argue over does not help anyone along the path.

I have a suggestion:
Why not post supportive comments that will help people? You could even start a thread to help people give up smoking.
- we have them regularly
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/stoptover-smoke-free-october.64712/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...l-me-so-i-will-say-goodby-forever-soon.60708/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/smoking.54579/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/smoking.98050/#post-1105080
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/off-the-rails.94727/

So many of your posts seem to look for confrontation. You announce a need to wear a Tin Hat nearly all the time, and now you are actively criticising people for something that does not affect you any more.

There are none so zealous as Born Again Non Smokers.

Do you think you would have been able to give up smoking and attempt to adjust your eating habits at the same time @Heretic1?

Imagine that you had been diagnosed with diabetes whilst you were still a smoker and then you might understand why some members find it hard to fight two battles at the same time.

I doubt that there is any smoker that does not know that it is bad for their health and one would hope, that in time, they will get some smoking cessation advice.

I don't think complaining about smokers is what support is all about.

@Heretic1. As someone who has never smoked and has been teetotal for the last 5yrs I think you have every right to voice your opinion and ask questions. I just don't see the point though. I think everyone on this forum offers something to all of us ( yourself included ). Ultimately at the end of the day I don't give a **** how any one decides to lead their lives.
Your post is interesting not for the smoking debate but for the label you've been given.
I think you may be creating your own labels.

People who smoke, do drugs and overdo alcohol have an addiction problem and need support, empathy and information about giving up (if they want to). Nagging and making people feel like lepers does no good on any forum. If you're a saint then good for you - I am not bothering you so maybe keep negative thoughts to oneself.

There are people who don't do diets and don't smoke etc I know who are not very nice people to know. Nuff said here.

Heretic1 said:

some people here I know continue to smoke!!!!

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TBH I've not seen many people mention that they smoke in their posts , but do concur with you about the health risks and implications for people with diabetes who are already at a heightened risk of complications, but at the same time @catherinecherub makes a good point that you can only fight one battle at a time, getting bg levels under control is paramount for anyone newly diagnosed, once that is achieved they can then look at other lifestyle habits such as reducing and eventually giving up smoking.

I also think it's important to remember that sometimes members have other things going on in their lives that we may not know about. Yes, it's wrong to,use smoking as a crutch, but I don't think it's right to judge people who do. I'm sure they know the health risks. Sometimes things aren't as simple as they seem.

I've never smoked so I've never had to give it up, but I can imagine it's not easy.

I read the post with interest. At first I wasdamnright enraged about people who smoke and are diabetic.
Then I re read the post, calmed down, and thought everyone has their own opinions.
I,m am a smoker, I say that because I have not managed to completely give up.
At the moment, I would rather concentrate on getting my weight down and trying my best to get my bs levels down to a normal level. At the moment I am doing well with losing weight slowly and my levels have come down greatly. I used to smoke 40 aday, tried to stop, but I found my weight going up, bs levels going up and for awhile, I fell of the wagon just to stop smoking. I would rather get my diabetes under control as I Don, t wasn't eye problems, heart problems, be at risk of strokes and even to have limbs amputated which can happen with ud bad diabetes. But I do ad it that I smoke around 5 aday which I am proud off considering I few months ago that I was smoking 40 aday. I found that I could, t deal with getting my diabetes under control and give up smoking at the same time.
I appreciate the help to get through encore mentioned from the members ger

Ooh where is this planet where we must choose between a baked potato and a fag?

@Heretic1 - Up front; I am a lifelong non-smoker. I never even tried it. I expressed my early rebellion phase in a different way. I really don't like smoking. That said, my mother smoked for all but the last year of her life, and to be blunt, only gave up when she was diagnosed with serious vascular disease, which was followed up by a diagnosis of terminal lung cancer.

However, I respect the life choices of everyone on here. Some may not be life choices I'd ever make for myself, or be life choices I would like to co-exist with on a 24/7 or even once in a while basis, but they aren't my choices, and I won't have to live with any unwanted consequences that those people experience at any stage.

When I hear of someone who declares themselves as trying to give up I want to celebrate with them, not be horrified they currently smoke.

When it comes to any sustained change, to give up something we like, each individual needs to understand their "what's in it for me?" question. That might be, I just can't afford it, and I'm heading for financial ruin, or in terms of diabetes it could be "I already have mild neuropathy", or "I'm terrified of ending up on injections" or a million and one other things. Similarly the time has to be right. The person concerned needs to want to change; now.

It's hard to believe there can be many smokers who don't know, deep down, they should be smoking. Similarly, for those of us who came to this diabetes arena sporting a nifty set of love handles, I doubt there are very few who, again, deep down, didn't realise that trimming up would be a great idea. But, did we do it? I know I didn't!

I was truly fortunate (although I didn't see it that way at the time) that at the time I was diagnosed I was literally about to embark on an overseas trip, scheduled to last several months. I couldn't bear to think having to use medication throughout it, and what would happen if I took something that didn't agree with me after a while? Would I be stranded thousands of miles from home not knowing what to do? That was my sharp motivation for getting with the plan immediately.

In support of @ally1 ; I take my hat off to her and her journey to joining the fully paid-up non-smoking club. Ally has had enormous challenges I wouldn't share with you along her diabetic journey. That in the face of all that she has fought hard to do the best for herself is incredibly impressive. That Ally's journey to a non-smoker hit a bump in the road for a short while is wholly understandable, in my view, and to say she has come back with vigour is to her credit, and I have never witnessed a bad mood or grumpiness from her, although I'm sure she has felt that way sometimes.

Sorry to pick you out Ally, but as you were brave enough to post, I knew I wanted your efforts to be recognised as successes, not anything to be criticised.

You can feel exactly as you do, but in return you should be prepared to accept that there are who feel a similar amount of indignation at your lifestyle choices in terms of your implied diet, and your decision not to test.

I'll step off my soapbox now.

@ally1 noticed your BGs recently and been really pleased to see how you've managed them.
Any reduction in the number of smokes is good, 40 to 5 is great.
One demon at a time is enough for me.
Good on you for your application and for posting in this thread.
Wish you well.

Heretic1 said:

OK folks. I appreciate this post may draw fire, and I may even get removed or banned, and have thought long and hard before posting it - bit feel I now need to.

I have frequented this forum for a little over 3 months and in that time have been quite amazed at some of the lengths folks will go to, and the results 'residents' achieve.I am not a committed 'LCHFer' nor a 'tester' but totally respect those that feel it right for them. I see many posters who are (possibly quite rightly) fixated on achieving the holy grail of the lowest possible hba1c and Daily BS levels, and making many ongoing and daily dietry sacrifices to achieve levels even 'normal' people would be very pleased with, and completely and utterly respect that stance ..... and before you all start throwing things at me for my flippacy, I FULLY understand that this does need to be taken seriously and of the possible complications quite rightly rammed into us!
However ..... What I find unbelievable is that that despite taking, monitoring, measuring, comparing and going to great lengths to get BS as lowwww as possible ....here goes ..... some people here I know continue to smoke!!!!
Now I declare my hand here in that I am an ex smoker of some 8 years standing (long before I was 'labelled') so yes I do know what it is like to stop and how hard that was, BUT I recognised the need to protect my health going forward before any of this (OMG if only I had changed other habits too!). I think we all fully understand the MASSIVE health risks of smoking even for 'normal' people and that the biggest single contribution ANYONE can make to their health is to stop smoking! ..... and that is before you add in the even BIGGER risks 'we' run. When I was 'labelled' the very first question I was asked was did I smoke!
Now I have seen posters talk about the need to test, the 'dangers of evil carbs etc etc ..... Yet they continue to smoke...
I have seen posters give up fruit because they are toooo carb heavy ..... Yet they continue to smoke
I have see posters clearly state the need to test because of the damage 'spiking' may cause ..... Yet they continue to smoke!
Again perhaps being a little flippant if you give me choice between a cigarette and a baked potato .... I think I know which one is the safest!
As outlined earlier, I gave up the weed over 8 years ago - and it was difficult, BUT I have found accepting 'it' and my new found fate and potential deprivations I must now make10 times worse than that was. So I do find it hard to believe that some people who take the management of their condition soooo seriously can continue to do this???
I end with perhaps another flippant remark - I understand in here there are many who deride / mistrust and ignore the guidance and advice of HCPs in the pursuit of lower BS levels - is the advice they give about smoking also wrong!!!!
Thoughts?

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would be interested to know how you thought this post would actually motivate anyone who was struggling with BD and was a smoker, trying to quit.

@hamkjam I hope that I am wrong but it appears to be a desperate attempt at attention seeking.

If you choose a username of Heretic and preface most of your posts with "I know I'm going to be slammed" or "I need to get my tin hat" you must have an agenda.

Such a shame.

I am not offended by any ones choice to smoke or not to smoke. What I do find offensive is some one who because they have made a particular choice for them selves then comes here to preach and lecture others on their choices and tell us all how we should live. We all have our priorities in life and I will choose my own if you don't mind in fact I will choose my own if you do mind. But please do feel free to air your views and I shall feel free to ignore them if I so wish.

Regards John

I have had a rough run over the last dozen years or so with autoimmune issues stacking up and diabetes thrown into the mix. Add into that drugs to suppress the immune system and the constant illnesses and infections that can cause. I have also lost my father and only brother. In the last 2 years I have become unable to work and had to deal with the financial implications of being chronically ill and in pain much of the time. In addition is the issue of "you look fine" which is one of the hardest things to deal with in a lot of chronic diseases. I was a life long smoker and when my doctor, who is very good, mentioned quitting, my response was that I couldn't eat what I wanted, couldn't drink alcohol, didn't do drugs, and could no longer do a lot of the activities I loved. I was barely managing to get through work every day at that point. I was not ready to give up what I saw as my one coping mechanism. I have now been cigarette free for one year. I chose to vape and have been weaning myself off nicotine and am at the point where I have almost no nicotine. This is an option that works for many. My healthcare team is clear that nicotine itself is not dangerous and that all the poisons that come with it in cigarettes are very dangerous and they are happy with my method. Having said that, I would never shame a smoker or try to tell them that my way is the right way. You never know what is going on with another person either in their life or in their head. Someone who smokes will quit or they will not. That choice does not define how good a person is or their level of intelligence or personal strength. And that is my opinion.

I am a non smoker and have a problem with second hand smoke as it affects my throat and eventually gives me a bad cough. Nothing against smokers as it is their choice and enjoyment. My only advice to smokers who are parents to please do not smoke in front of your children as it would encourage them to pick up the habit. Do not expose them to second hand smoke as it is unfair to them. Thank you.

Heretic1 said:

Now I have seen posters talk about the need to test, the 'dangers of evil carbs etc etc ..... Yet they continue to smoke...

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As a non-smoker please allow me to play devil's advocate.

There are smokers who live to a ripe old age and die of something unrelated to their smoking, probably not a lot, who knows.

On the other hand, a person who has been diagnosed with diabetes will unquestionably become more and more ill if they don't take steps to keep their BG in check. If they choose to use or have to use medication, that's fine. Personally I'm lucky to have a choice (I'm type II) and I love the control I have over my health and I'm one of those low carbers (well lower than the usual 250 -300 gms a day) who prefer altering my life style and avoiding meds where I can, which always seem to have side effects worse than the original condition.

Actually this topic, bad carbs good smoking, reminded me of a conversation I had with my wife a few weeks ago.

My FIL is Irish, and in many ways typical and in others atypical.

He drinks huge amounts, and now retired that is virtually his whole life, and smokes like the proverbial trooper.

But I can never recall him ever eating a Potato, or Bread. I remember going for a Curry on my BIL's stag night many years ago and passing him some rice and his retort, "I'm not eating that f@@@@@g stuff".

I remember saying to my wife that he can't be long for this World the way he drinks and smokes and she replied "he's been low carbing all his life, he'll probably outlive us all"