1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Has anyone tried the Wahls Protocol?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Cocosilk, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    103
    I've seen the carnivores who shun veggies because of the anti-nutrients in them causing them problems so I've heard those arguments from people like Amber O'Hearn and Georgia Ede, and they make sense.

    But I was just watching this last night and found her story rather compelling because it's not every day you hear about someone with multiple sclerosis getting up out of their wheelchair and riding a bike for 18 miles!

    So I was inspired to find and eat some organic vegetables today. I made the mistake of going from keto to too much vegetable fibre and I'm paying for it this evening... I also have my husband asking me whether I have googled "Dr Terry Wahl" and "fraud" since she is selling a book. I haven't yet - I thought I would come here first and hear your thoughts. (My husband is critical of everything and it took over a year and a half of him watching me drop weight on a low carb / keto diet to final join me.)



    If nothing else, I was inspired to eat a purple carrot for the first time today. And I've bought Jerusalem Artichoke for the first time ever and have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do with them... Lol


    P.S. This study has details of her diet https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6412750/
     
    #1 Cocosilk, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:50 AM
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  2. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,095
    Likes Received:
    7,887
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I grow Jerusalem artichokes and they are often called 'fartichokes' for good reason. They are delicious but don't eat too many in one meal. My favourite way of preparing them is scrubbed, part boiled then roasted.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Thanks for the warning! I've already got a bit of extra... ahem.. gas today after the other cruciferous vegetables I ate today.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  4. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    11,310
    Likes Received:
    22,359
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Wahls Elimination Diet Development and Research

    "The modified Paleolithic (Paleo) Wahls™ diet was originally developed in 2008 by Dr. Terry Wahls based on the tenets of a Paleo diet [69,70,71] and her review of the scientific literature [72,73]. Paleo diets which exclude grains, dairy and legumes and emphasize fruits and vegetables (F/V), meat and fish are nutritious [70,71] and have been associated with improved biomarkers associated with reduced risk for heart disease [74] such as reduced blood pressure, weight, waist: hip ratio, improved lipids, increased insulin sensitivity, decreased liver fat and increased satiety [75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82]. An observational survey of psoriasis patients following a Paleo diet reported an association with reduced skin symptoms and improved QOL [83].
    The modified Paleo diet (Wahls™) was first reported in a case report which documented significant regression of disability from wheelchair dependence to mild gait disability using a modified Paleolithic diet, exercise, electrical stimulation and supplements as part of a multimodal lifestyle intervention."


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6412750/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. ziggy_w

    ziggy_w Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,934
    Likes Received:
    8,468
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi @Cocosilk,

    As far as I know Terry Wahls is legit. I've been following her research off and on and I am really impressed by what she is doing to help people with MS.

    The diet she recommends seems imo to be similar to low carb or keto (which depending on your personal choices can also have a lot of fiber), just without the dairy. Reminds me also a lot of what Paleomedicina in Hungary is doing to combat autoimmune disease, just that Paleomedicina seems to have a higher proportion of meat to plants. Here is the link to the protocol https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/paleomedicina_hungary_ therapeutic_protocol.

    In summary, if you think you might be sensitive to dairy, it's worthwhile trying.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    103
    I have been eating a lot of eggs this past few years and I have always had a lot of milk until a year and a half ago, but still like some goat's milk in a cuppa, as well as cheese of all kinds! And cream. And a goat's milk yoghurt I make at home. I love dairy.
    But something on the low carb diet, could even been the odd slice of sourdough that I was sneaking in) is potentially making my knees ache. I'm hoping it's the occasional gluten but I seemed to notice my knees hurting after a warm milk with a square of dark chocolate (could be the bit of sugar or milk). But there are so many possible causes. I can see why people just go vegan or carnivore to rule most of everything out. But then I think reintroduction is wise to really know which foods might be causing problems.
    I do like the idea of more meat than vegetables too though. And it probably makes more sense for anyone with diabetes, doesn't it?
     
  7. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,826
    Likes Received:
    3,358
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I think
    "The modified Paleo diet (Wahls™) was first reported in a case report which documented significant regression of disability from wheelchair dependence to mild gait disability using a modified Paleolithic diet ,+
    exercise, electrical stimulation and supplements as part of a multimodal lifestyle intervention."
    indicates that the success was not necessarily due to the diet change as there were other interventions to an unspecified degree that are possibly fairly intense in themselves. That said, there are several followers of this forum who use a Paleo diet to control their diabetes, Not sure if many of them have claimed reversal success, but it seems to be viable for us to consider.
     
  8. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    11,310
    Likes Received:
    22,359
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Please see my post above.
     
  9. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,826
    Likes Received:
    3,358
    Trophy Points:
    198
    "The limitations of this pilot study were the lack of randomization, the multimodal nature of the intervention, variability in supplement intake, lack of blinded assessors and brain MRI data and small study size. Micronutrient intake from the FFQ and nutrient data from 24 h dietary recalls collected at end of study have not yet been reported."

    The sample size was only 20 participants,the data obtained was observational, and the food questionaires seem to be at start and then 12 months later, The trial is stated as being RCT but we do not know what was randomised so have no clue as to what it was used for or its validity. We do not know the entry or rejection criteria. We also do not know how many participants had normal progression of their condition

    I can well believe that this diet may improve QOL for this cohort, but this study is is only showing possible association. The OP mentions the wheelchair claim, but there was other intervention over the 12 months trial. Someone thinking of using this diet at home may not get that additional input.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    11,310
    Likes Received:
    22,359
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Implicit in the opening post was is Dr Terry Wahl a fraud and it seemed obvious from that study that though she maybe touting her book but so many do and some of aspects of the study may be to some contentious but she is no fraud or quack.
     
  11. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,826
    Likes Received:
    3,358
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Indeed her work is being taken seriously
    https://www.ms-uk.org/sites/default/files/choices_diet.pdf

    However, we must bear in mind that so far her books have been published on the results of one case study, singular. The subject of the recovery was none other than herself, the author. So the evidence base so far is extremely weak. Neither the UK nor the USA MS societies are offering to substantiate her claims with their own evidence.

    Terry Wahls has also recently undergone chemotherapy, and is also trialling s new drug for MS treatment. I think it wise to hold a certain amount of skepticism to these claims until there is supporting independent evidence, We do have evidence of people using this type of diet with success on this forum, but only for blood sugar control.

    Here is the preview of a prospect trial for this, but so far there is no evidence it has been taken any further other than the trial you posted, which is also from Terry, so is not independent.
    It is a 'call to papers'.
    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01915433

    Note that eggs are not part of her diet plan simply because she herself is allergic to eggs (apparently)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Wow, I should have reread your post before I prepared the Jerusalem artichokes... I forgot about the parboiling part and roasted them but not near as long as I should have. Boy, am I paying for it now! And I gave some to my 1 year son and 5 year old daughter as well... I thought I knew what it meant to have discomfort down there after a meal - my Serbian husband makes a white bean dish that would have us all running for cover for hours afterwards. But this is something else! And to make matters worse, I had all these other vegetables because I'd gone out and bought a bunch from an organic farm so they needed to be cooked. I made leek and bacon soup, and had some of that, and I also made a Mediterranean green bean dish with tonnes of onion and olive oil. And they also give me gas... Geez. What have I done to myself? Lol And then my 1 year old was already doing blow out nappies today probably from yesterday's new extra veggies, and I was left trying to get this wriggling and kicking one year old out of a leaking nappy while I was squatting down mind you! and fearing the worst with my own gas problem! HA HA!! These vegetables are hurting me after being on a more meat heavy low carb diet! Man O man... It's no joke!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,095
    Likes Received:
    7,887
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Oh dear, id
    Oh dear, very easily done. You need to introduce extra veg VERY slow and Jerusalem artichokes especially so. x
     
  14. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    103
    "Don't have too many" should really be "Just have one small one and wait till the next day to see what happens"... Ha ha One person's version of "many" is obviously a lot more than another's... he he
    They were yummy! It was hard to stop at one. I don't think I had that many but they were a little under-cooked.
    I'll know better next time. That's if I am game enough to try them again... ha ha :D I think I will be. They have quite a unique taste!
     
  15. Chook

    Chook Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,095
    Likes Received:
    7,887
    Trophy Points:
    198
    If you like them they are amazingly easy to grow. Just make a little hole, drop one in, fill the hole back in then forget about them. Mine get to about 8ft tall then after the sunflower like flowers go over is when you can start digging them up.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook