Have I got things wrong?

[Saramel]

I have been an avid supporter of Low Carb control of my Type 2 Diabetes but found it really difficult to stick to it so my weight and sugars just got bigger and bigger. After going to Slimming World where they run a low fat/low sugar programme I've lost a couple of stone, stopped taking Gliclazide and hope to reduce my Metformin to 1 twice a day from 2 twice a day.
I have recently attended attended a Carb Awareness course which raised some interesting questions.

Firstly, I accept that until there is a definitive research program into the LCHF diet, the NHS will still keep on educating the Healthy Plate/Balanced nutrition approach and I don't really want to get into a debate about which is best at this point but the following things were confusing to me:

1. One of the things we were told was that to forget the idea that fats slow down blood spikes which is what I learned at a DESMOND course. Is that right?
2. We were advised to eat hard to digest food like corn on the cob which I have always avoided as I thought they were quite "sugary". Your thoughts on this would be helpful.
3. We should be eating 60g of carbohydrate at each meal (3 per day) and not snack. Does that seem like a lot of carbs even when following the healthy plate plan.
4. Diabetes was described simplistically as the red blood cells having rusty locks with the insulin being unable to use it's key in those rusty locks which is what metformin helps with. However, we were then told that insulin was the best treatment available but patients are often scared of it when they shouldn't be. Everybody I know who have insulin are no longer prescribed metformin so if my insulin can't unlock the blood cells, why will injected insulin do the job? If I don't need metformin when I get to the point that I have to take insulin which is the gold standard treatment, why am I taking metformin now knowing it is likely to damage my kidneys in the way my Mum's have been damaged?

I am probably overthinking things but in order to feel that I am doing the best by my body, I need to understand the information I've been given. TIA

 

[Resurgam]

I think that they are spouting nonsense.
Corn on the cob is not hard to digest. It is very starchy.
I eat 60 gm of carbs a day as an absolute maximum, when I have been out all day or am going out with the morris side in the evening.
What have red blood cells got to do with absorbing glucose?
Insulin is normally over produced in type twos for some years - it is not an optional extra unless the pancreas fails in later life.
I don't seem to need Metformin - it made me so ill when I tried to take it, I really felt that life was not worth living. It seems to be regarded as a life saver - not for me.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have been an avid supporter of Low Carb control of my Type 2 Diabetes but found it really difficult to stick to it so my weight and sugars just got bigger and bigger. After going to Slimming World where they run a low fat/low sugar programme I've lost a couple of stone, stopped taking Gliclazide and hope to reduce my Metformin to 1 twice a day from 2 twice a day.
I have recently attended attended a Carb Awareness course which raised some interesting questions.

Firstly, I accept that until there is a definitive research program into the LCHF diet, the NHS will still keep on educating the Healthy Plate/Balanced nutrition approach and I don't really want to get into a debate about which is best at this point but the following things were confusing to me:

1. One of the things we were told was that to forget the idea that fats slow down blood spikes which is what I learned at a DESMOND course. Is that right?
2. We were advised to eat hard to digest food like corn on the cob which I have always avoided as I thought they were quite "sugary". Your thoughts on this would be helpful.
3. We should be eating 60g of carbohydrate at each meal (3 per day) and not snack. Does that seem like a lot of carbs even when following the healthy plate plan.
4. Diabetes was described simplistically as the red blood cells having rusty locks with the insulin being unable to use it's key in those rusty locks which is what metformin helps with. However, we were then told that insulin was the best treatment available but patients are often scared of it when they shouldn't be. Everybody I know who have insulin are no longer prescribed metformin so if my insulin can't unlock the blood cells, why will injected insulin do the job? If I don't need metformin when I get to the point that I have to take insulin which is the gold standard treatment, why am I taking metformin now knowing it is likely to damage my kidneys in the way my Mum's have been damaged?

I am probably overthinking things but in order to feel that I am doing the best by my body, I need to understand the information I've been given. TIA

Sounds like complete nonsense to me.

Fat does keep blood sugar spikes lower, although makes the rise a bit longer lasting.
Corn on the cob is carb heavy at about 12g per 100g and not much fibre.
60g carbs per meal, 3 times a day, is too much for anyone.
Not snacking, however, is a very good idea.
What they are saying about rusty cells is that type 2s are insulin resistant - our insulin has trouble pushing glucose inside the cells, so we end up with too much glucose and high levels of insulin in our blood, with the pancreas working overtime to keep producing more insulin to cope with the high glucose levels. High levels of insulin in the blood stream are just as dangerous as high levels of glucose. Giving extra insulin to people that produce enough natural insulin will only make the insulin resistance worse and will do their health no good at all. Injected insulin is only "better" when our pancreas is worn out and not producing enough natural insulin. In that event, we need injected insulin.

 

[wiflib]

What were you eating on your low carb diet?

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

So are you saying that the low carb approach didn't work for you because you couldn't adhere to it and started eating too many carbs?

I'm guessing that the slimming world approach involves restricting calories resulting in weight loss. Sounds like that has worked well for you. The trick is to figure out how to eat for long term health.

 

[kokhongw]

You may find it helpful to read Dr Roy Taylor's work
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609491/

Which has the following conclusion:-

Formal recommendations on how to reverse type 2 diabetes in clinical practice must await further studies. In the meantime, it will be helpful for all individuals with newly diagnosed type 2 diabetes to know that they have a metabolic syndrome that is reversible

And view his video

And Dr Joseph Kraft's alternative model/definition of Type 2 diabetes...
https://idmprogram.com/understanding-joseph-kraft-diabetes-in-situ-t2d-24/

You may then understand why many of us disagree with the NHS "Eatwell" approach...

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I accept that until there is a definitive research program into the LCHF diet, the NHS will still keep on educating the Healthy Plate/Balanced nutrition approach and I don't really want to get into a debate

Things are changing, I recently saw the diabetic specialist, a first for me, in 20 years. On her desk was a book on low carb diets which she was going to give me, I'd beaten her to it. The doctors and nurses at my surgery are all supporters of low carb but will not necessarily persuade all their patients to follow low carb principles because some patients find it difficult if not impossible to lower their carbs, so it's much better to prescribe medication and ask them to eat sensibly, whatever sensibly is.

We were advised to eat hard to digest food like corn on the cob

The inside of the kernel is starch and easily digested, the cellulose husk is not digested however you chew it.

We should be eating 60g of carbohydrate at each meal (3 per day) and not snack.

I've seen other advice, I think the "eatwell" advice says 1/3 of your calories should be carbs, for me that's 800 calories and at approximately 4 calories per gram that's 200 gms so pretty close. Although if I took into account the amount of exercise I do (I'm not sedentary) that would go higher. I personally eat about 40 gms of carb a day, and that's what helps me keep my BG under control. That will be different for different people and I always reckon a c-peptide test and an insulin resistance test would be good markers to see what we're working with, a starting point as it were. Most GPs are happy to guess how type IIs are doing, mine did anyway.

On the snacking front, I was initially told to eat little and often and that was so the carbs I was eating in the old days (I was told not to cut carbs and in no uncertain terms) were spread out over the day and less likely to cause spikes. Snacking is not such a great idea if you are having 3 square meals a day. I try to limit my snacks to celery and salsa.

However, we were then told that insulin was the best treatment available

Obviously the only treatment for type I, as for type II, interesting. The two people in my life with type II are my father and my cousin and are both taking insulin. They are not interested in eating less carbs and both have poor management of their BG levels. Proves nothing, just saying. I should add that whereas a type I will carb count (hope I have that right, I know my old uncle use to) my father and cousin are not carb counting.

Everybody I know who have insulin are no longer prescribed metformin

My father and cousin take both. Insulin and Metformin work differently. In theory Metformin should make the body better able to use the insulin it gets.

knowing it is likely to damage my kidneys

I've been taking Metformin for 20 years with a 3 year break. Obviously it will affect us all very differently but I hope my annual kidney function test will pick up anything untoward.

There's a lot to learn about diabetes and we will all have slightly different experiences. I listen to everyone and try different things and stay with the things that work. I initially reduced my carbs after consulting a nutritional therapist and ignored the advice given by my previous GP, even my current GP at that time was skeptical, but now a convert because she could see that I was able to stick to it. I threw away Gliclazide, Januvia and Atorvastatin very quickly after going the low carb route.

Presently trying a version of the Newcastle Diet which again my GP was a little concerned but said that she would trust me and hold back on changing medication for the time being. My BG isn't doing what it used to do, even with low carb, so it's work in progress.