Help in dealing with neuropathy

I read and surveyed the Treatment of Prediabetes article. This is a bit concerning...

Conflict-of-interest statement: Ralph A DeFronzo is a member of the Bristol-Myers Squibb, Janssen, Amylin, Takeda, Novo Nordisk, and Lexicon advisory boards; has received grants from Takeda, Amylin, and Bristol-Myers Squibb; and is a member of the following speakers bureaus: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Novo Nordisk, Janssen, and Takeda. No other potential conflicts of interest relevant to this article were reported.

A concern I have about most diabetes studies and articles is that they're not using the low carbohydrate high fat diet (LCHF; up to 150 g carbs) or the low carbohydrate ketogenic diet (LCKD; up to 50 g carbs) because diets that are both high carb and high fat are unhealthy and disease promoting.

If you really want to dig into the science of the benefits of making lifestyle changes, both diet and exercise, I encourage you to read researchers Jeff Volek, Ph.D., R.D.'s and Stephen Phinney, M.D., Ph.D.'s two books, or listen to their presentations on YouTube. For dietary guidance and support, I encourage you to visit the Low-carb Diet Forum here... http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/low-carb-diet-forum.18/ If eating a vegetarian/vegan diet, additional guidance and support can be found on the Vegetarian Diet Forum here... http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/vegetarian-diet-forum.71/ The Diet Doctor website is gets into the "how to's" of the LCHF diet and LCKD here... https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb Membership is free for the first month and includes an impressive video library that includes presentations and interviews with leading diabetes experts from around the world.

I have a diabetes library of 50+ books. My favorite book that provides a good overview of the what's known from research about diabetes and it's treatment is the book Blood Sugar 101: What They Don't Tell You About Diabetes, 2nd Edition (2016). Here's the chapters and appendixes:

1. What is a normal blood sugar?
2. How diabetes develops
3. What really causes diabetes?
4. Blood sugar level and organ damage
5. Must you deteriorate?
6. How to lower blood sugar
7. Making your diet work
8. Generic Diabetes Drugs
9. Patented diabetes drugs
10. Insulin
11. Supplements and healing foods
12. Exercise
13. Is it really type 2?
14. Working with doctors and hospitals
A. Convert mg/dl to mmol/L
B. What can you eat when you are cutting the carbs?
C. Diabetes drug families

It's good that you're both reading research articles and studies. I did the same when I was rediagnosed two years ago with an A1c of 9.9%. All lab work is now within or just above the normal range thanks to the LCHF diet/LCKD, thoughtfully chosen nutritional supplements, and walking, despite the fact that I'm still 45 pounds overweight. If I can do it, anyone can.

The article was shared purely for the information about prevalence of neuropathy in people who are diagnosed as borderline/prediabetic.

I should have stated as I have elswhere, that I don't agree with the conclusions eg medicating prediabetes. This due to my own partial sucess and the excellent sucess stories of others on this forum in control though lowering carbs.

Alison, my success is best described as "partial" too. I didn't receive the guidance and support I needed when I became prediabetic in 2002 or 2003. Everything changed when I found this forum. There's still much to learn, to try. Glad you're here.

Omnipod said:

I just been through this and have done tons of research.
Neuropathy starts when your BS post prandial goes higher than 7.7.
My neuropathy was so bad that I could not wear shoes and I could not sleep. The dr's put me on Amytriptiline but then I could not wake up in the mornings. It left me too drowsy that I could not function 100%

I went back to the dr who sent me to a neurologist and podiatrist. They then prescribed Gabapentin. I went to collect the pills and when I got home, i started reading the leaflet. There was no way I would take take these pills. I googled them and read many reviews. I did not want to feel like my brain is numb, halucinate or appear slow.

I then was advised to read 'The antioxidant Miracle' by Lester Packer. I bought the kindle version and started reading. I read the book cover to cover in a single day and was so inspired by the stories and research that I was reading.
I went to Holland and Barret and bought Alpha Lipoic Acid and Vitamin B12, Vitamin C, D and E. Tripple Omega and Co Enzyme Q10.

I started low carbing and keeping my bloods as low as possible. I did everything to avoid a post prandial spike. Within 1 week, my neuropathy pain was gone.

I now find that if I have a bout of high blood sugar, even if it goes up to 12 after a meal, the tingling and burning comes back. The other day I had a blood sugar or 26 and the pain returned even worse.

The ONLY way to treat neuropathy is to keep you BS under 7.7 and to take alpha lipoic and vitamin B12.

In Germany all diabetic patients with neuropathy are prescribed alpha lipoic and Vit B12.

I have also been reading stories about men in particular with neuropathy. Most of them have a degree of erectile dysfunction. Some of these men started taking viagra / cialis which improved the flow of blood into the microvascular veins which inturn also seemed to improve neuropathy.

Neuropathy is a serious condition and will only get worse if you just take stuff like gabapentin and do not deal with the cause. You really have to stay below 7.7 at all times.

Hope that helps.

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thank you for these guidelines. I started b12 and q10 along with my "old" C and Dvit and lowered my BG and my neuropathy eased a bit. I keep on and hope it still will improve

Omnipod said:

I just been through this and have done tons of research.
Neuropathy starts when your BS post prandial goes higher than 7.7.
My neuropathy was so bad that I could not wear shoes and I could not sleep. The dr's put me on Amytriptiline but then I could not wake up in the mornings. It left me too drowsy that I could not function 100%

I went back to the dr who sent me to a neurologist and podiatrist. They then prescribed Gabapentin. I went to collect the pills and when I got home, i started reading the leaflet. There was no way I would take take these pills. I googled them and read many reviews. I did not want to feel like my brain is numb, halucinate or appear slow.

I then was advised to read 'The antioxidant Miracle' by Lester Packer. I bought the kindle version and started reading. I read the book cover to cover in a single day and was so inspired by the stories and research that I was reading.
I went to Holland and Barret and bought Alpha Lipoic Acid and Vitamin B12, Vitamin C, D and E. Tripple Omega and Co Enzyme Q10.

I started low carbing and keeping my bloods as low as possible. I did everything to avoid a post prandial spike. Within 1 week, my neuropathy pain was gone.

I now find that if I have a bout of high blood sugar, even if it goes up to 12 after a meal, the tingling and burning comes back. The other day I had a blood sugar or 26 and the pain returned even worse.

The ONLY way to treat neuropathy is to keep you BS under 7.7 and to take alpha lipoic and vitamin B12.

In Germany all diabetic patients with neuropathy are prescribed alpha lipoic and Vit B12.

I have also been reading stories about men in particular with neuropathy. Most of them have a degree of erectile dysfunction. Some of these men started taking viagra / cialis which improved the flow of blood into the microvascular veins which inturn also seemed to improve neuropathy.

Neuropathy is a serious condition and will only get worse if you just take stuff like gabapentin and do not deal with the cause. You really have to stay below 7.7 at all times.

Hope that helps.

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Can you tell me how much alpha lipoic acid is safe to take?

Spunter said:

Can you tell me how much alpha lipoic acid is safe to take?

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The ideal dosage for ALA is supposed to be around 600mg a day. I got some 300mg tables from Amazon because I didn't know if I was going to get side effects. The first time I took one I did feel very tired and got a headache, but it was on an empty stomach. After eating lunch I felt full of energy with no headache and I now take it after eating with no problems.

ALA can reduce blood sugars, so you need to be careful.

600mg a day is perfectly safe, as long as you have no side effects. If you're taking pure r-ala lower doses can be used due to the much greater bioavailability.
It has had no affect on my blood sugar.

The Diabetes Summit is starting soon! It's free. Register here if you haven't already... http://www.thediabetessummit.com/ It will run March 20th - 27th, 2017. On Day 7 Dr. John Hayes will be interviewed on treating peripheral neuropathy. I don't know anything about him but interested in hearing what he has to say.

Omnipod said:

I just been through this and have done tons of research.
Neuropathy starts when your BS post prandial goes higher than 7.7.
My neuropathy was so bad that I could not wear shoes and I could not sleep. The dr's put me on Amytriptiline but then I could not wake up in the mornings. It left me too drowsy that I could not function 100%

I went back to the dr who sent me to a neurologist and podiatrist. They then prescribed Gabapentin. I went to collect the pills and when I got home, i started reading the leaflet. There was no way I would take take these pills. I googled them and read many reviews. I did not want to feel like my brain is numb, halucinate or appear slow.

I then was advised to read 'The antioxidant Miracle' by Lester Packer. I bought the kindle version and started reading. I read the book cover to cover in a single day and was so inspired by the stories and research that I was reading.
I went to Holland and Barret and bought Alpha Lipoic Acid and Vitamin B12, Vitamin C, D and E. Tripple Omega and Co Enzyme Q10.

I started low carbing and keeping my bloods as low as possible. I did everything to avoid a post prandial spike. Within 1 week, my neuropathy pain was gone.

I now find that if I have a bout of high blood sugar, even if it goes up to 12 after a meal, the tingling and burning comes back. The other day I had a blood sugar or 26 and the pain returned even worse.

The ONLY way to treat neuropathy is to keep you BS under 7.7 and to take alpha lipoic and vitamin B12.

In Germany all diabetic patients with neuropathy are prescribed alpha lipoic and Vit B12.

I have also been reading stories about men in particular with neuropathy. Most of them have a degree of erectile dysfunction. Some of these men started taking viagra / cialis which improved the flow of blood into the microvascular veins which inturn also seemed to improve neuropathy.

Neuropathy is a serious condition and will only get worse if you just take stuff like gabapentin and do not deal with the cause. You really have to stay below 7.7 at all times.

Hope that helps.

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Dear Omnipod and everyone else on this post - this has been one of the most helpful and inspiring posts I have read in a long while. I can do much better with my glucose control and will most definitely read the antioxidant and other books mentioned. Sometimes I wonder if whether I don't control as well as I should because I assume what's the point - a very negative way of thinking and relates to my being avoidant regarding my diabetes (type 1 since April 2005). So - tomorrow is another day - which means check BG tonight take night time dose of insulin and tomorrow enjoy my scrambled eggs salmon and a small piece of bread - one step at a time.

Thanks to all those who replied and awarded me trophies. Have now got both books - The Diabetes Solution (Dr Bernstein) and Blood Sugar 101 (Jenny Ruhl) - money well spent. I am looking for book covers for the Bernstein book as I will be taking it with me on the train - any suggestions for where I could purchase book covers for it welcome.

Today also went to GP and had all bloods done including Iron, B12, Folate and Vitamin D - thought I would do this before starting supplements.

My strategy for the Bernstein book is to read it from the beginning to the end with notebook by my side.

Let's see how I get on,

Ps have registered for the summit

Winnie53 said:

The Diabetes Summit is starting soon! It's free. Register here if you haven't already... http://www.thediabetessummit.com/ It will run March 20th - 27th, 2017. On Day 7 John Hayes, M.D. will be interviewed on treating peripheral neuropathy. I don't know anything about him but interested in hearing what he has to say.

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For 24 hours, beginning on Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 2 p.m. in the UK, Dr. Brian Mowll's interview with Dr. John Hayes on treating peripheral neuropathy will be available for viewing, again, only for 24 hours. Additionally, all or some of the interviews will be available to view the following day on Encore Day.

You need to be registered to attend - (for link and how to register, refer to information in my signature line.

For those who don't want to register, try this link to today's interviews including the one on peripheral neuropathy... Access Today’s Talks by Clicking HERE! or here http://www.drmowll.com/ds17event

Day 7 of The Diabetes Summit with Brian Mowll starts today on the 26th at 2 p.m. in the UK; Day 8, Encore Day starts on the 27th at 2 p.m. in the UK. I think the second link will work for today, also tomorrow for Encore Day.

Listening to the peripheral neuropathy interview now.

At 27:07 minutes he states that they stopped using benfotiamine, a form of vitamin B1, the first year they used it with patients because it made some patient's symptoms worse. He also mentions vitamin B6 toxicity. (He attributes this to genetic differences that researchers are just beginning to understand).

One topic I'd hoped they'd discuss, but didn't was the importance of the "Association of MTHFR gene C677T mutation with diabetic peripheral neuropathy and diabetic retinopathy". Here's a link... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3724957/

I've been thinking for a couple of weeks now that I need to stop taking my B-complex in addition to my multi-vitamin and mineral supplement which likely contains all the B vitamins I need (which I did last week).

I've also been thinking that I need to have my homocysteine level checked - (high levels also contribute to cardiovascular disease).

The more I learn, the more I'm discovering that there are a lot of tests that I've not had done that are important for those of us wishing to avoid the complications of diabetes.

Not sure what to think about Dr. Hayes. His physical appearance and statement that diabetics need to eat every three hours to maintain stable blood sugar levels tells me he's understands some things, but not the low carb or low carb ketogenic diet piece. [Edit: I was wrong. He is using the low carb diet with patients... http://neuropathydr.com/neuropathy-treatment-diet-plan/ ]

I am impressed that he's licensing centers to use their evaluation and treatment methods which includes a nutritional supplement formula and specialized equipment that they had built for patients. He also wrote with the support of the American College of Physical Medicine Chicago a board certification program in neuropathy for licensed healthcare practitioners.

It's an important beginning.

Winnie53 said:

Listening to the peripheral neuropathy interview now.

At 27:07 minutes he states that they stopped using benfotiamine, a form of vitamin B1, the first year they used it with patients because it made some patient's symptoms worse. He also mentions vitamin B6 toxicity. (He attributes this to genetic differences that researchers are just beginning to understand).

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That is interesting, I might actually stop the benfotiamine for a while to see if it makes any difference, thanks

@Juicetin will be interested in hearing what happens.

I continued to add comments to my post after you quoted me - (apologies, I do that a lot, I know [embarrassed]) - so there's more to read now. Hope you're able to listen to the interview today. It will be available to view today through tomorrow morning in the UK. You may hear something else useful for you specifically that I didn't pick up on.

Edit: Something else Dr. Hayes said really got me thinking too. He said the first sign of peripheral neuropathy is cold feet or hands followed by the sweat glands no longer working. He also said it's important to keep the feet and I assume hands warm.

I'm curious as to whether or not my feet still sweat. In the winter I double up on socks.

Winnie53 said:

@Juicetin will be interested in hearing what happens.

I continued to add comments to my post after you quoted me - (apologies, I do that a lot, I know [embarrassed]) - so there's more to read now. Hope you're able to listen to the interview today. It will be available to view today through tomorrow morning in the UK. You may hear something else useful for you specifically that I didn't pick up on.

Edit: Something else Dr. Hayes said really got me thinking too. He said the first sign of peripheral neuropathy is cold feet or hands followed by the sweat glands no longer working. He also said it's important to keep the feet and I assume hands warm.

I'm curious as to whether or not my feet still sweat. In the winter I double up on socks.

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Interesting about sweating or none sweating feet. Sweaty feet as a teenager but one cold foot but no longer any numb baby toes.
Low bgs are helping me with a lot. Cold feet or hands are a side affect to some meds.

I listened to the interview with Dr. Hayes a second time and then decided to have a look at his website. These two areas had a lot of information... FAQ: http://neuropathydr.com/for-patients/ and Blog - (which has blog posts going as far back as 2010): http://neuropathydr.com/blog/

I was surprised to learn that he is using the low carb diet with neuropathy patients even though he didn't mention it during the interview.

Interestingly I'm taking almost everything in his nutritional supplement formulation for neuropathy, which is reassuring.

Well, sadly Dr. Haye's interview on peripheral neuropathy wasn't included for Encore Day. If anyone wants the transcript, PM me with your email address and I'll email you the file.

Here's the link for Encore Day which ends Tuesday at 2 p.m... https://vj173.infusionsoft.com/app/linkClick/37225/925ca8ad10f7a840/32936947/d91779e3a6c61dc3

Ten of the thirty interviews are available today. Of those, I really liked these so far and am going to show to our local diabetes group - (am listening to more today so may add to the list)...

Michael Murray, ND "The Four Types of Blood Sugar Problems in Diabetes" After listening to the four types, you can then go to his website, take a brief quiz, then find our what type you have. He then provides an overview of your type, then sends you links to additional videos about your type every three days or so. I participated in his research on this, and interestingly enough, I "typed" as expected due to high post prandial glucose levels.

Trudy Scott, CN "Understanding Anxiety: The Connection to Diabetes" This is only the second time I've listened to Trudy. This was an excellent interview. I came away from it with ideas that are immediately applicable for managing anxiety which affects many members of my family. She discusses GABA specifically and provides additional information on how to take it and adjust the dosage over time.

Joel Kahn, MD "A Plant-Based Approach To Blood Sugar Health" I really like Dr. Kahn and have surveyed his book. Need to go back and read it now. Dr. Kahn is a cardiologist and runs support groups that number in the thousands here in the US. He and his wife both eat vegan, he owns a vegan restaurant, yet one of his adult children eats Paleo which I find amusing. Of all the doctors promoting a whole foods, plant based diet, he's my favorite. He's fine with people eating a Paleo or low carb diet that includes lots of whole plant foods, but for patients who have established heart disease or cardiovascular disease, he argues that saturated fats and dairy are problematic. I've eaten low carb for two years with good results. Now that my diabetes is stable, I'm going to investigate my cardiovascular health with additional lab tests and imaging this year. I'm already eating a lot of plant foods but a question in my mind is whether or not dairy is healthy for me.

Going to listen to Dr. Tom O'Bryan now...

I found the transcript very interesting, a lot of emphasis on prediabetes and neuropathy, I suspect this is exactly what has happened with me, metabolic syndrome for a number of years

Omnipod said:

and I firmly believe that most of this damage caused by diabetes can be reversed. The body produces new cells all the time so I have no doubt that damage can be reversed.

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I have only just read this, Omnipod, and wish to ask ... Do you think this nerve damage reversal can apply to eye damage caused by diabetes? I was shocked to find nerve damage so soon into being diagnosed last year.