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Type 1 HF causes Insulin Resistance???

debbiiee

debbiiee

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While reading an article on metformin & mice, the mice were fed high fat diet to induce insulin resistance & then what metformin does in insulin resistant mice was studied. There is no strong evidence with humans although. I would like to know if anyone here have noticed insulin resistance after changing to a LCHF diet. And there is no doubt that LCHF is for better sugar control:)

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Yes, a high fat diet can cause insulin resistance as long as it is also high calorie. Similarly, a high carb diet can cause insulin resistance if it is high calorie.

To be frank, the researchers should indicate that it is a high calorie diet that induces insulin resistance.

Whether it's the carbohydrate, fat or both doesn't make that much difference as, if they're taking in excess calories, the mice will grow fat and many of them will develop insulin resistance.
 
Would it be possible to know? I'm not sure you could tell when I guess the LC will decrease need for, and therefore the circulating amount of, insulin in a person. Unless of course the HF was such that it caused greater resistance so the insulin levels went up again to counteract it. Perhaps the only way to know would be by measuring insulin levels before starting LCHF and after and if they increase that would mean increased insulin resistance, but I'm thinking on my feet upon very shaky ground here!
 
sunspots said:
Would it be possible to know? I'm not sure you could tell when I guess the LC will decrease need for, and therefore the circulating amount of, insulin in a person. Unless of course the HF was such that it caused greater resistance so the insulin levels went up again to counteract it. Perhaps the only way to know would be by measuring insulin levels before starting LCHF and after and if they increase that would mean increased insulin resistance, but I'm thinking on my feet upon very shaky ground here!
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Hi sunspots
Measuring insulin is not necessary. Those who take insulin shots for meals might have experienced rising insulin requirements with high fat diet if it has really induced insulin resistance... Dont know if i am right?:eek:
@alaska, If calories are the reason for insulin resistance, all those who do LCHF should also count their calories & keep it within limits, right???
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That makes much more sense. I did start to flounder half way through my thinking! Being T2 I also forgot that insulin requirements came into it :oops:.
 
I'm definitely needing more insulin having more fat intake. I was unwittingly on minimal fat though without realising it.... So perhaps needing more insulin at the moment is just because I had low fat previously, perhaps this is normal insulin for me having a better balance?


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One of the easiest ways of giving rodents the metabolic syndrome is to feed them a cafeteria diet ie allow them access to lots of human snack type foods. They eat far more calories.
It works with human lab rats too.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.fr/2011/09/humans-on-cafeteria-diet.html

DD, I personally don't think that extremely low fat diets are a good idea and nor do I think that the very high fat put another 'stick' of butter on it type diets are a good idea. Some people see differently (it's worth also reading some of the comments) http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/who-knew-eating-butter-would-be-so-controversial/22585
There are 2 essential fats and some vitamins are fat soluble but many fats are nutrient poor, if you are eating loads of fat then there isn't enough room left in your diet for more nutrient dense and perhaps protective foods.
 
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Phoenix

Today I've had no butter but a Philadelphia fish cake and salad for tea and bacon, tomatoes and poached eggs for lunch.. (Hate breakfast but pre work at 7am and during work at 10am had a 1/2 yummy each time) Would you count that as excessive fats? This is pretty much my type of food's I have. Tonight about 9am I will have a cube of cheddar, and I've just had equivalent of 5 full walnuts.

Tomorrow will be chicken with a salad, same snacks and probably a ( tinned)tuna lettuce wrap with a Philly sauce..honest opinion please Phoenix is this too much bad or unnecessary fats.

I never meant to eat minimal fat, just never realised I was so low in fat and now struggling to just get enough healthy fat without excess....


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@donnellysdogs When you were looking at your fat intake, did you count the fats from other sources than dairy such as in your meat, eggs and fish? Were you in fact as low as you thought? Just a thought.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
@donnellysdogs When you were looking at your fat intake, did you count the fats from other sources than dairy such as in your meat, eggs and fish? Were you in fact as low as you thought? Just a thought.
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Actually, no....I've only just forced myself to eat fish of some description...and only just started to eat poached eggs.. Before it would have been toast and butter. I do try to sort of vary eggs and fish now, but previously chicken.. But even small amounts of that... About 1/2 a chicken breast...

I don't eat much in total actually besides a lot of salads n veg..some days I add in lots of cucumber if I have loads of them in my greenhouse needing to be ate. So fish and eggs are added in more now as veg and salads my mainstay of eating beside a yum yum whilst working.. Or a toast when hubby off but now prefer to have cucumber in a lettuce wrap with some peanut butter..

I don't eat a lot unless it's my birthday or December when I eat Xmas pudds etc n roast potatoes n stick pump up running to 250% 24 hours a day,,,,

But no only really added fats from my milk in coffees... Cos my main fat before adding in cheese was a small portion of chicken or small amounts of 95% ham! or corned beef..


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debbiiee said:
While reading an article on metformin & mice, the mice were fed high fat diet to induce insulin resistance & then what metformin does in insulin resistant mice was studied. There is no strong evidence with humans although. I would like to know if anyone here have noticed insulin resistance after changing to a LCHF diet. And there is no doubt that LCHF is for better sugar control:)

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Click to expand...

We have had another thread earlier today discussing insulin resistance in type 1's due to a high-fat diet that you should find interesting:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/more-fat-the-better.59607/#post-565431
 
Oh and sometimes have tin of tomato soup or leek n Stilton soup... And just added eggs n may in to salads...


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Have strawberries or some fruit such as pears each day, but that's always been in my diet, so missed that out accidentally..


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(started to write this before your other reply)
Without quantities it's impossible to estimate amounts.
You could be eating a small fish cake with a bowl of salad with lots of varied veg, or a couple of large fishcakes with a couple of leaves and a slice of tomato.
Ok, in my opinion , I think that if you are looking to add calories then an extra egg is probably far more nutritious than a slice of toast and butter, especially if it's an industrial bread, 15g of butter probably has more fat than the egg

The fats in fish are mostly monounsaturated and seem to be protectective, the fats from the cheese are probably higher in saturated (that's where I personally would be careful of amount, and as I live in in a land of 365 cheeses go for small amounts [30-40g portions] with good flavour )
Eggs, are in spite of their bad reputation , over 50% unsaturated fat and they really aren't that big so not high in calories.(they do make my glucose levels rise though so I have to bolus for them)

As a gardener I should think that you have quite high calorie needs ;far more than I. My basal calorie needs are only 1400-1500 a day (I've checked using weight/age/heart rate through the day) . If can only go on my own figures . I think that a relatively high fat med type diet (say 40% fat) seems to be healthy, for me that is on a non active day, only 66.6g - not really a lot when you consider using some oil for cooking , have a salad dressing, milk in coffee plus fish/meat/cheese etc .
That is just within the French guidelines of 35-40% but only half of the 80% fat level that some people seem to be eating. (UK guideline is 70g for women and is based on 2000 cal so about 31%)
I actually have to do over 6 miles of hilly walking or running to get up to the gda of calories for women :(

Why don't you put a few sample days into one of the online calculators and see what your nutrient profile is like? It will give you both the macronutrient so you know what sort of amounts you are eating and the micronutrient amount which will show if you are missing anything.
The US Supertracker is a big pain to use because you have to input using cups and ounces but it is accurate and produces excellent reports. the others tend to have a mixture of official and crowd sourced data so don't always have full and accurate details)
 
If you want to get the most nutrients from all the veggies you are eating, you probably should add a good fat to them to increase absorption. I add a vinaigrette to all veg whether hot or cold. Plain veggies are pretty mundane without a good oil and lots of pepper and salt, IMO.
 
phoenix said:
(started to write this before your other reply)
Without quantities it's impossible to estimate amounts.
You could be eating a small fish cake with a bowl of salad with lots of varied veg, or a couple of large fishcakes with a couple of leaves and a slice of tomato.
Ok, in my opinion , I think that if you are looking to add calories then an extra egg is probably far more nutritious than a slice of toast and butter, especially if it's an industrial bread, 15g of butter probably has more fat than the egg

The fats in fish are mostly monounsaturated and seem to be protectective, the fats from the cheese are probably higher in saturated (that's where I personally would be careful of amount, and as I live in in a land of 365 cheeses go for small amounts [30-40g portions] with good flavour )
Eggs, are in spite of their bad reputation , over 50% unsaturated fat and they really aren't that big so not high in calories.(they do make my glucose levels rise though so I have to bolus for them)

As a gardener I should think that you have quite high calorie needs ;far more than I. My basal calorie needs are only 1400-1500 a day (I've checked using weight/age/heart rate through the day) . If can only go on my own figures . I think that a relatively high fat med type diet (say 40% fat) seems to be healthy, for me that is on a non active day, only 66.6g - not really a lot when you consider using some oil for cooking , have a salad dressing, milk in coffee plus fish/meat/cheese etc .
That is just within the French guidelines of 35-40% but only half of the 80% fat level that some people seem to be eating. (UK guideline is 70g for women and is based on 2000 cal so about 31%)
I actually have to do over 6 miles of hilly walking or running to get up to the gda of calories for women :(

Why don't you put a few sample days into one of the online calculators and see what your nutrient profile is like? It will give you both the macronutrient so you know what sort of amounts you are eating and the micronutrient amount which will show if you are missing anything.
The US Supertracker is a big pain to use because you have to input using cups and ounces but it is accurate and produces excellent reports. the others tend to have a mixture of official and crowd sourced data so don't always have full and accurate details)
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Thank you Phoenix... Your words are the most understandable that I have read! And the most useful I have read anywhere on internet!!

Thank you so much. I'm going to take some time sitting down in the sun at the weekend to really check that I am now balancing my fat needs etc. you have given me the plain speaking english info I needed. I very much appreciate your time and thoughts to help me.

With increased saturated and unsaturated fats is this likely to have an affect on my cholesterol? Got that being done in 2 weeks time.....





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Some time ago, Dillinger and someone else sent msgs to the forum about needing more insulin to deal with the resistance that their diet of low carb with more fat was causing them. Their bg levels were very good with very little swings and their appetite was satisfied but the weight loss stopped and either levelled out or increased a tiny bit. I suspect nuts and cheese to be culprits.

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Indy51 said:
If you want to get the most nutrients from all the veggies you are eating, you probably should add a good fat to them to increase absorption. I add a vinaigrette to all veg whether hot or cold. Plain veggies are pretty mundane without a good oil and lots of pepper and salt, IMO.
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That goes without saying here, you very rarely get presented with a plain boiled veg, the ubiquitous haricot vert normally comes tossed in oil and garlic, sometimes with a few strands of onion or with lardons.
When I was first in hospital at diagnosis, the dietitian came every morning . As well as instruction on meal planning and carb counting, she went through the 'order' for the next days meals. There was always an order for oil and garlic with the salad (always a raw salad as well as cooked veg) .

DD, I've just looked up my reports from the supertracker. The most useful one is the food details report, this can be in excel or pdf, It includes all the foods you have included and a complete breakdown of all the nutrients for each food and the total so you can see how much fat (subdivided into the different types) but also all the vitamins and minerals . The nutrient tracker is a summary of the results.

RE cholesterol. Sat fat does raise LDL in trials, monounsaturated and omega 3 fats raises HDL. (as does soluble fibre and exercise)
However, as you know some people on here say that they have increased intake and total levels have fallen, (could be to do with weight loss) Others find total levels rise both LDL and HDL have risen.
I once read a very good article about some people being hyperabsorbers/responders and these people may be much more prone to get higher LDL levels on very high fat diets. I can't find the original article now but was surprised to see this blog about it (surprised because I would certainly disagree with Kris Gunnars over many of his blog posts)
http://authoritynutrition.com/low-carb-diets-and-cholesterol/ The Dayspring article he mentions is actually available without signing up here: https://www.lecturepad.org/dayspring/lipidaholics/pdf/LipidaholicsCase291.pdf
 
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