High cholesterol and statins

[Dollylolly]

My cholesterol has come back a tad high at 6.7% same as it was at dx to be honest. I did get it down and went on a lchf diet to control the blood sugars.
I was looking to see what was the good one and the bad one so I can be armed at the GP with the usual take this which I will be refusing.
There is no heart conditions in the family history either which will be part of my argument for not taking the statin plus the tablets made me forget along with the joint and muscle pain which was horrendous.

 

[bulkbiker]

My last one was 6.0 but with HDL at 1.72 and trigs at 0.6 I don't really care.
Do you have a breakdown of your numbers?

 

[bulkbiker]

I used this
http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php

 

[Art Of Flowers]

Unfortunately Statins raise blood sugar, so are not good for people with type 2 diabetes. People in the UK and USA who have heart attacks have lower cholesterol than average, so lowering cholesterol via statins does not always help. There is evidence that higher cholesterol levels for women actually protects against CVD.

A lot of people on here have found bad side effects from statins. In a poll 64% had negative experiences including memory loss, and severe muscle pain. See http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/poll-side-effects-from-statins.58409/

So, in summary the benefits of statins are negligible and the side effects can be severe and because they raise blood sugars they are not a good idea if you already have high blood sugars as this can lead to diabetic complications.

 

[Guzzler]

I'm having the same problem, HCPs on my back to lower cholesterol to 'acceptable' levels. I am tired of hearing it and because I refused the statins it is flagging up on their system every time I go to the surgery.
I have never refused a 'medicine' in my life but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I am not going to try to cheat and accept the script but not take the tablets, the cost to the NHS is vast and I refuse to burden it further with wastage. I shall just keep refusing.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I'm having the same problem, HCPs on my back to lower cholesterol to 'acceptable' levels. I am tired of hearing it and because I refused the statins it is flagging up on their system every time I go to the surgery.
I have never refused a 'medicine' in my life but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I am not going to try to cheat and accept the script but not take the tablets, the cost to the NHS is vast and I refuse to burden it further with wastage. I shall just keep refusing.

I am flagged up for no more statin discussions after discussing this with a nurse on the telephone (not my normal one) after my last lot of blood tests when my total had gone up. She fully agreed with my sentiments, knew and understood exactly why I refuse them, and agreed to put that note on my records. That hopefully will stop further interference.

 

[Bluetit1802]

My cholesterol has come back a tad high at 6.7% same as it was at dx to be honest. I did get it down and went on a lchf diet to control the blood sugars.
I was looking to see what was the good one and the bad one so I can be armed at the GP with the usual take this which I will be refusing.
There is no heart conditions in the family history either which will be part of my argument for not taking the statin plus the tablets made me forget along with the joint and muscle pain which was horrendous.

You ask which are the good ones and which the bad.

The good ones are the HDL (high density lipoprotein)
The bad ones are the Triglycerides.

 

[Guzzler]

I am flagged up for no more statin discussions after discussing this with a nurse on the telephone (not my normal one) after my last lot of blood tests when my total had gone up. She fully agreed with my sentiments, knew and understood exactly why I refuse them, and agreed to put that note on my records. That hopefully will stop further interference.

Hopefully that will happen to me once my levels start to come down.
It is my understanding that the fall in levels takes a lot longer than when working to lower glucose levels, is that right?

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hopefully that will happen to me once my levels start to come down.
It is my understanding that the fall in levels takes a lot longer than when working to lower glucose levels, is that right?

I think people have different experiences. Some say they see increases at first, and then drops. Others, like me, see immediate improvements. Some say they see higher levels initially when losing weight. I didn't.

My cholesterol and breakdown were never particularly bad. For my diagnostic test my trigs were the highest they had ever been (1.25). Previously always under 1. They dropped back to under 1 within 5 months (0.6) and are still 0.6 over 3 years later. My HDL has shown significant improvement, and is currently 2.51. (was 1.56 at diagnosis). My LDL fluctuates between high 2s and low 3s

The thread started by @CherryAA tries to show a correlation between trigs and FBG as a marker for insulin resistance using a specific formula.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/you-can-measure-your-own-insulin-resistance.126095/

 

[Guzzler]

I think people have different experiences. Some say they see increases at first, and then drops. Others, like me, see immediate improvements. Some say they see higher levels initially when losing weight. I didn't.

My cholesterol and breakdown were never particularly bad. For my diagnostic test my trigs were the highest they had ever been (1.25). Previously always under 1. They dropped back to under 1 within 5 months (0.6) and are still 0.6 over 3 years later. My HDL has shown significant improvement, and is currently 2.51. (was 1.56 at diagnosis). My LDL fluctuates between high 2s and low 3s

The thread started by @CherryAA tries to show a correlation between trigs and FBG as a marker for insulin resistance using a specific formula.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/you-can-measure-your-own-insulin-resistance.126095/

Thanks, lass.

 

[Dollylolly]

LDL 4.3
HDL 1 56
Trigs 1.9
Total cholesterol 6.7
The link says high risk but when all in its normal go figure eh

 

[fletchweb]

I'm having the same problem, HCPs on my back to lower cholesterol to 'acceptable' levels. I am tired of hearing it and because I refused the statins it is flagging up on their system every time I go to the surgery.
I have never refused a 'medicine' in my life but I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I am not going to try to cheat and accept the script but not take the tablets, the cost to the NHS is vast and I refuse to burden it further with wastage. I shall just keep refusing.

Same issue with me and my cholesterol was at 4.7 - I was prescribed statins and then I was prescribed BP meds to protect my kidneys from the Statins. So I took my prescriptions, thanked the Doctor but never bothered to take them or fill them. I often feel that when I visit my doctor it's like I'm visiting a drug dealer - eager to prescribe whatever the pharma trend happens to be at any given moment of time.
Back in the old radio days - radio announcers were being investigated for taking bribes to play certain songs/music by the radio companies. I'd love to know if the same thing is happening with the Global Healthcare system and if so is it legal - probably is in most places.

 

[Dollylolly]

It's the **** metiformin they want me on and I refuse every time and I get it'll help yeah by 1 but I'd like to do it by diet and exercise and got the, it'll help with that errr no it won't plus all the side effects.

Now what to say to the GP Whom I don't see for another fortnight. Muscle and joint pain, my heart is a muscle. I'd like to keeep it thanks. No heart disease in family history no heart attacks in family either. There is no collaration (sp) of high cholesterol and high fats leading to heart disease.
Just for the cheap seats I'm asking to be referred as my own diabetic doc isn't back till next year to the hospital. I'm awaiting refusal and want to know why. That should be interesting.

 

[noblehead]

LDL 4.3
HDL 1 56
Trigs 1.9
Total cholesterol 6.7
The link says high risk but when all in its normal go figure eh

Have a read of the following @Dollylolly :

Blood fats (lipids)
Lipids are the cholesterol and triglycerides in your blood. Cholesterol is a type of fat found in all of us. You may be familiar with the term blood cholesterol, but what you may not know is that not all cholesterol is bad. Some of it, HDL (high density lipoprotein), can actually protect against heart disease. Low levels of this protective HDL cholesterol increase your risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). However, LDL (low density lipoprotein) cholesterol is the bad form of cholesterol in the blood. Triglycerides are another type of fat in the blood. If you have raised cholesterol and raised triglycerides you have an increased risk of CVD.

• Your total cholesterol level should be below 4.0mmol/l.
• LDL levels should be less than 2.0mmol/l.
• HDL levels should be 1.0mmol/l or above in men and 1.2mmol/l or above in women.
• Triglyceride levels should be 1.7mmol/l or less.

If you do not know your lipid levels, ask your healthcare team to arrange a simple blood test for you.

The current NICE guidelines for lipid modification have recommended that a full lipid profile should include measurement of total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, non-HDL cholesterol, and triglyceride concentrations. So healthcare professionals are to use non-HDL cholesterol instead LDL-cholesterol. Non-HDL cholesterol is total cholesterol minus HDL cholesterol, but the guidelines do not contain absolute targets for total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, non-HDL cholesterol or triglycerides.

However, Diabetes UK Council of Healthcare Professionals (CHP) has advised that the general targets used previously should be maintained as a guide, and healthcare professionals should be encouraged to use their clinical judgement in discussing individual targets. Made up of healthcare professionals across the board, theCouncil of Healthcare Professionals (CHP)is an advisory body, whose members inform the work of Diabetes UK.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/managing-your-diabetes/testing

 

[bulkbiker]

Have a read of the following @Dollylolly :

Blood fats (lipids)
Lipids are the cholesterol and triglycerides in your blood. Cholesterol is a type of fat found in all of us. You may be familiar with the term blood cholesterol, but what you may not know is that not all cholesterol is bad. Some of it, HDL (high density lipoprotein), can actually protect against heart disease. Low levels of this protective HDL cholesterol increase your risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). However, LDL (low density lipoprotein) cholesterol is the bad form of cholesterol in the blood. Triglycerides are another type of fat in the blood. If you have raised cholesterol and raised triglycerides you have an increased risk of CVD.

• Your total cholesterol level should be below 4.0mmol/l.
• LDL levels should be less than 2.0mmol/l.
• HDL levels should be 1.0mmol/l or above in men and 1.2mmol/l or above in women.
• Triglyceride levels should be 1.7mmol/l or less.

If you do not know your lipid levels, ask your healthcare team to arrange a simple blood test for you.

The current NICE guidelines for lipid modification have recommended that a full lipid profile should include measurement of total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, non-HDL cholesterol, and triglyceride concentrations. So healthcare professionals are to use non-HDL cholesterol instead LDL-cholesterol. Non-HDL cholesterol is total cholesterol minus HDL cholesterol, but the guidelines do not contain absolute targets for total cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, non-HDL cholesterol or triglycerides.

However, Diabetes UK Council of Healthcare Professionals (CHP) has advised that the general targets used previously should be maintained as a guide, and healthcare professionals should be encouraged to use their clinical judgement in discussing individual targets. Made up of healthcare professionals across the board, theCouncil of Healthcare Professionals (CHP)is an advisory body, whose members inform the work of Diabetes UK.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/managing-your-diabetes/testing

As is so often the case with NICE based on old science.. maybe even "bad" science?
Little evidence that cholesterol is linked to heart disease and possibly more evidence that for women higher cholesterol is better. Dave Feldman's cholesterol protocol shows that it is possible to change your cholesterol readings by fasting then eating high calories. Also there is some evidence that cholesterol levels can vary quite a bit during the day. All in all I would say the average GP knows little about how cholesterol works in the body and is probably in no way qualified to prescribe an artificial means of lowering the levels of something that is so essential for life.

 

[Dollylolly]

Lipid tests yeah I can see them going for that not. It's takes them all their time to do the routine ones sadly.

Plus NICE guidelines are not in place to help more hinder as I've been quoted them for meter and strips and a refusal. My letter of complaint is in over it too.

My refusal will be noted and I no doubt will be phoned to be bullied into taking them and I won't because of past experiences of them which was glossed over too. I.e. I was lying and making up my pain.

I might site that link of Norwegians and ask the doc to have a read politely as usual.
I always ask why over any medication I take and if they say because of age I again ask why. This is usually met with the NICE guidelines see my point.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

the tablets made me forget along with the joint and muscle pain which was horrendous.

That alone is all you need to tell a GP why you don't like them. They would make you too ill to hold down a job, is he going to pay you? Is your sleep pattern OK? At least you've tried them and they don't agree with you. Merck pharmaceutical knew in 1990 that statins prevented the uptake of CoQ10 and that's what causes the muscle pain. Ask if you can take a lawyer in with you. If I had money to burn I'd be my lawyers right now. I personally would not even enter into a discussion, they always seem to have a smart answer for everything. I actually know someone who was told he had two choices, take them or die, which is totally immoral and also incorrect. there's enough evidence out there to show how statistics are misrepresented to make it look good and the problem is that the media pick it up, dumb it down and recycle absolute garbage.

I started taking them in 1997, I was 45, I suffered from leg muscle pain for years, and a lot of p1$$ taking from so called colleagues who thought my aches and pains were funny for some reason. Then I discovered that Merck Pharmaceutical were well aware of the problems since 1990 (you can Google the patent where they talk about impending muscle pain) and had to put up with a load of BS from my GP at the time, which is basically why I wouldn't be able to believe a GP now.

There's also a good chart of CardioVascularDisease against cholesterol levels from the British Heart Foundation. Doesn't support the idea that cholesterol should be as low as possible in the slightest.

If you don't want them, don't take them.

BTW, for some reason I watched Statin Nation just before I read this thread, see if you can get to watch a version online.

 

[Art Of Flowers]

There are some excepts from the Film Statin Nation ...

The first 13 mins

Side Effects of Statins

The chelesterol myth

People with high cholesterol live longer

 

[Daibell]

Lipid tests yeah I can see them going for that not. It's takes them all their time to do the routine ones sadly.

Plus NICE guidelines are not in place to help more hinder as I've been quoted them for meter and strips and a refusal. My letter of complaint is in over it too.

My refusal will be noted and I no doubt will be phoned to be bullied into taking them and I won't because of past experiences of them which was glossed over too. I.e. I was lying and making up my pain.

I might site that link of Norwegians and ask the doc to have a read politely as usual.
I always ask why over any medication I take and if they say because of age I again ask why. This is usually met with the NICE guidelines see my point.

Hi. Just ask the nurse to add lipids to your next HBa1C test as mine does.

 

[Daphne917]

I have the 'statin discussion' with my DN every year despite me telling her I won't take them after they increased my hba1c from 48 to 54, gave me dizzy spells and caused me sleep problems. She suggests that I try a different one but I rather take the risk with high cholesterol than having a dizzy spell whilst driving or my BS going back to diabetic levels again.