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High cholesterol on a lchf

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by holmesi34, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    NuZest also have a clean protein drink and you could mix both to get the cals and all the healthy goodies. :)
     
  2. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Will have a look.. I can't have sweeteners or preservatives... My gastro chap ruled out NHS supplements because of this.

    I normally only eat at home due to probs and everything is homemade because of commercial rubbish.
     
  3. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I would be careful about this product. It has been very very heavily marketed on the internet, and smells of hype. I got to page 15 on google, and the hype was still continuous. The last time I saw something like this it was for a cancer treatment that was marketed through MLM. Turns out it included crushed apricot kernals as a main ingredient. In other words - cyanide.

    When I see such frenetic marketing, then I am immediately suspicious about the product. After all the basis is just peas. But we do not know how the other multitudinous (77+) ingredients are sourced, and this hidden magic worries me.

    I really had to dig deep to find the ingredients. Now Green Suff is marketed as low carb, no sugar, but it is actually 28.3% carb, and 10.4% sugars. It has 24.2% protein and 360 mg sodium per 100g. Sounds more like Pea and Ham Cuppa Soup to me.

    However, the alternative to this product is probably as bad or worse, and it does seem to be vegan GF etc as claimed.
    I just don't like the hype and price of it. Had similar experiences with Herbalife (which is still going!)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Check out the thread I've started under Food/ Nutrition for a fairly detailed analysis of the product. I'm personally happy with it having carried out several hours of research and started using it.


    Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app
     
  5. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    By the way practically no movement in my own BG whatsoever on Good Green Stuff :)


    Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app
     
  6. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    A proper place to discuss this product. Will pick up there instead..
     
  7. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks


    Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum mobile app
     
  8. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Just an addition to the original thread title, I've finally finished the 'Big Fat Surprise' by Nina Teicholz. I started it a few weeks ago, and because it is the sort of reading that you need to 'engage brain' for, I have only just finished it, for a good few weeks in the middle, life got in the way.

    I could not recommend it more highly to those of you concerned about LCHF and Cholesterol. The last couple of chapters, about 'Where are we now', with regard to the next raft of changes we have seen as a result of trains-fats being discredited are really insightful. I already knew a good bit about Omega 6 being a problem, but the worry is that the newer oils /shortenings (esterified I think) are just as untested as trans-fats were.

    It is just a huge pity that the 'powers that be' can't just put their hands up and admit the dietary recommendations that focussed on LDL and Total Cholesterol were probably misguided, and certainly the research on which they were based has been totally discredited. Their are other, more significant markers for concern, notably low HDL, high Triglycerides, CRP, that are much improved by restricting carbs and adding natural, principally saturated fats.

    I will probably regret it, I am one of those people whose total cholesterol and LDL goes up on LCHF, my last test, more than 4 years ago, it was than 8.1, LDL 5.1. But my HDL was high and Trigs very low, so I'm not at all concerned, but my new doctor (the old one who respected my perspective has retired) wants me to have a lipid panel as well as a whole other raft of blood tests - it's scheduled for Tuesday. I rather hope, although I think it's irrelevant, that the TC has come down, save me the trouble of trying to 'educate' a new doctor! On the positive side, I'll also be having my first HbA1c for 4 years too, I look forward to that being perfect!
     
  9. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting, but non saturated fats are principally the way to go.
    Unless, as you say, you are trying to drive cholesterol up.
     
  10. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to raise HDL and lower Trigs, because I believe those to be significant, and to realise those effects you need to restrict Omega6 and carbs and use Saturates / monosaturates. We will have to agree to differ on the importance of LDL and TC.
     
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  11. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I think I have similar problem. so far my TC and LDL are rising, my HDL fell slightly on my recent test.
    I consulted my GP about one of my meds in connection with a ketogenic diet. I was taking Ezetimibe which is a gentle med that reduces LDL, but does so in a different manner to a statin. As a ketogenic diet is fat burning, I queried whether I should be cutting down on fats in the blood (LDL), and if it was safe.
    My GP did some research into this, and has replied that it seems to be ok with ketosis. so I will continue with it and see if I can reduce my TC. Also I expect better lipids since previous I was not actually triggering ketosis, but now that I am it should raise HDL and drop Trigs.
    Might be worth considering Ezetimibe? It apparently also reduces the risk of gallstones, dissolves existing gallstones , protects against Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, and reduces artheriosclerosis. I need that I do!

    Good luck with your review.
     
  12. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    @Oldvatr I am entirely convinced, principally because of the Women's Health Initiative research, which demonstrated no correlation between raised LDL and heart disease or indeed premature death from all causes, that LDL levels are totally irrelevant for women. I really don't believe in 'polypharmacy' - there have never been any clinical trials on combinations or cocktails of drugs - so since I honestly believe that my LDL is irrelevant, I wouldn't take a drug to lower it.

    I would still prefer it to lower, a little, naturally, though.

    Thank you for your good wishes.
     
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  13. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    There is that recent study that shows a high TC has a higher risk of hemorragic stroke, but lower ischemic stroke especially in the elderly. I think it is the same trial you are referring to. LDL forms part of the TC calculation, so increase in LDL also raises TC. We cannot glibly ignore LDL completely yet, I'm afraid.

    The same study shows women have less risk due to LDL, but the risk is not zero. I think that if Ezetimibe lowers LDL without affecting HDL, then it could still be worth considering, especially since it does the other good stuff, and has virtually no reported side effects (unlike statins).
     
  14. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    As I'm on blood thinners for a clotting risk, the clotting / haemorrhage balance is a tricky one for me (as it is for all people on thinners, a bit like the balancing act required for insulin!) I used to be on multiple medications, and am very happy to be only on blood thinners. Ischaemic strokes are much more common than haemorrhagic, but usually have a better outcome.

    You can only make the choices that seem right for you as an individual at a point in time, weighing up all the risks and benefits. I honestly believe that the entire heart health / cholesterol hypothesis is an error, based on poor science and hasty decisions, but that's my take on it, I don't expect others to necessarily agree with me, only time will tell.
     
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  15. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I had a big argument about the science in another thread (or maybe this one) so I side with you on that one. Having had 2 ischemic strokes myself, I can vouch for life going on after. But I am happy to go with the latest research and run my engine on higher octane lipids. But I hope for them coming out not too extreme, and am taking steps to reduce my TC. I will not take any statins (poor science / faulty statistics again)
     
  16. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Thanks, I looked at the invredients and was like yourself totally shocked at them! No way would a drop of that go in my body.
     
  17. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    I think we have to realise that medicine as a whole is still in its infancy.... Trouble is the world and diets and lifestyles are changing so rapidly..
     
  18. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    If you have gained weight while on LCHF, then this is a sign that the HF bit could be reduced if you want. I find I only need to add cream to coffee and suck some Babybels to raise my weight. Not any major increase in fat intake does it for me. Mind you my lipids have not fallen yet, so I may need to investigate further myself.

    I am taking a pill called Ezetimibe, whichis not a statin, and it works in a very different way, but it acts to lower the LDLin the blood without touching the others. My GP says as far as his research has shown it is safe to take on a ketogenic diet. It has other benefits such as reducing the risk of gallstones and keeping the bile duct clear. I could not recommend it before he gave me the all clear. Check it out, and discuss with your GP if you want to try it. If nothing else, it adds amunition in the fight to avoid statins like what I does. It may stave off a gallstone, which is apparently a common side effect of a Low Fat diet.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hope you don't mind me jumping in, but my experience is a bit different.

    The way i look at it, the body cannot lay down fat without insulin (and cortisol, but lets not muddy the water :) )
    So, if you keep the carbs low enough, you cannot gain weight even while eating a lot of fat - because you keep your insulin so low that there isnt enough floating around to lay the fat down into the cells.

    I think of it as a seesaw. Get the carbs low enough and you can eat LOTS of fat, and not gain.

    I bet, @Oldvatr that your current carb intake is teetering on your personal carb tolerance, in a zone where you can gain on fat.
    However, if you dropped your carbs lower then you could eat more fat without weight gain, because your insulin would drop proportionate to the even-lower-carbs, and you would not be able to gain.
    (Not suggesting you do it, since you seem happy with your current situation, but just suggesting it as a possibility)

    This is a working theory that i have been applying to myself for a couple of years, and it REALLY works on my body.
    - have no references to support it, just 2 years of varying carbs by teensy amounts, and watching my 'immunity' to fat intake vary with it.

    Mind you, now i come to think about it, there was that guy who ate huge amounts of just meat and fat - and didnt gain. 5000 cals, i think per day. Then he repeated the experiment with 5000 carb calories and ballooned like a whale. All about the insulin, you see.

    Can anyone remember the guy's name?
     
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    #159 Brunneria, May 12, 2016 at 10:27 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2016
  20. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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    Sam Feltham, previously of Smash The Fat and now with the UK Public Health Collaboration: https://phcuk.org/
     
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