High Fasting/Low Post Meal

[Kittylitter]

Anyone else get this? Night time fasting is always 5.5 to 6.2, but post meal after 2 hours never gets above the 6's - I assumed it was the other way around for most people.

 

[chalup]

My fasting glucose in the morning is almost always the highest reading of the day and that includes 1 and 2 hours post meal. I think this is true for a lot of folks on the forum.

 

[kokhongw]

That would be rather typical of being in a pre-diabetes state where we have elevated fasting level > 5.0 mmol. And yet there may still be adequate insulin response to handle moderate post meal glucose except for occasional high carbs meal.

We may want to keep in mind that chronically elevated glucose implies elevated insulin levels. So some of us explore intermittent fasting or multi-day fasting to further improve the fasting glucose levels to < 5mmol.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Could it be that when you fast your bg levels drop so your liver and muscles help out and release glycogen into your blood which in turn raises your bg levels?

 

[Kittylitter]

My fasting glucose in the morning is almost always the highest reading of the day and that includes 1 and 2 hours post meal. I think this is true for a lot of folks on the forum.

Thats good in a way that I am not so abnormal lol

 

[Kittylitter]

Could it be that when you fast your bg levels drop so your liver and muscles help out and release glycogen into your blood which in turn raises your bg levels?

Yes it could be a bit of this also, thank you.

 

[Kittylitter]

That would be rather typical of being in a pre-diabetes state where we have elevated fasting level > 5.0 mmol. And yet there may still be adequate insulin response to handle moderate post meal glucose except for occasional high carbs meal.

We may want to keep in mind that chronically elevated glucose implies elevated insulin levels. So some of us explore intermittent fasting or multi-day fasting to further improve the fasting glucose levels to < 5mmol.

Think this sounds about right, my GP says my numbers are not high, so wont test me, for pre-diabetes, so I shall just cut down on carbs and sugar, and carry on testing.

 

[Bluetit1802]

That would be rather typical of being in a pre-diabetes state where we have elevated fasting level > 5.0 mmol. And yet there may still be adequate insulin response to handle moderate post meal glucose except for occasional high carbs meal.

We may want to keep in mind that chronically elevated glucose implies elevated insulin levels. So some of us explore intermittent fasting or multi-day fasting to further improve the fasting glucose levels to < 5mmol.

Can you explain why a FBG of more than 5mmol/l is regarded as elevated and why we should strive to get it less than 5 when anything up to 5.9 is regarded as a perfectly normal level for non-diabetics?

 

[Freema]

my morning numbers are the highest of the day as well , I think that is quite normal to low carbing type 2 diabetics

 

[Freema]

Can you explain why a FBG of more than 5mmol/l is regarded as elevated and why we should strive to get it less than 5 when anything up to 5.9 is regarded as a perfectly normal level for non-diabetics?

I guess it is because that is about the level of non-diabetics morning glucose or even lower, non-diabetics have effective insuline that do keep the morning numbers low..
http://www.livestrong.com/article/402873-normal-blood-glucose-range-for-non-diabetics/

 

[Bluetit1802]

I guess it is because that is about the level of non-diabetics morning glucose or even lower, non-diabetics have effective insuline that do keep the morning numbers low..
http://www.livestrong.com/article/402873-normal-blood-glucose-range-for-non-diabetics/

I looked at the details on this website, which says,

For the majority of healthy individuals, normal blood sugar levels are as follows:

• Between 4.0 to 6.0 mmol/L (72 to 108 mg/dL) when fasting
• Up to 7.8 mmol/L (140 mg/dL) 2 hours after eating

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html

 

[Brunneria]

Different countries have different cut off points for pre-d and D.

I believe America classes a fasting reading of over 5.5mmol/l as being pre-D, while here in the UK is it 6.0mmol/l or above.
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/diagnosis/?referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

So really, it all depends on a set of arbitrary decisions by medical advisory panels, who can (and do) change their minds if the cost of dealing with those pre-ds gets too much!

 

[Freema]

Different countries have different cut off points for pre-d and D.

I believe America classes a fasting reading of over 5.5mmol/l as being pre-D, while here in the UK is it 6.0mmol/l or above.
http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/diagnosis/?referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/

So really, it all depends on a set of arbitrary decisions by medical advisory panels, who can (and do) change their minds if the cost of dealing with those pre-ds gets too much!

'
I agree... I have read some diabetes scientists WHO do think the level of 6 mmol it set far too high, and that true non diabetics are under 4.7 most of the time

http://universityhealthnews.com/daily/diabetes/the-normal-blood-sugar-range-may-be-misleading-you/

 

[kokhongw]

Can you explain why a FBG of more than 5mmol/l is regarded as elevated and why we should strive to get it less than 5 when anything up to 5.9 is regarded as a perfectly normal level for non-diabetics?

The suggestion of FBG < 5.0 mmol came from mainly the following sources.
1) my endocrinologist mentioned that in passing, When my fasting level was significantly reduced from over 10 mmol to < 6 mmol within 1 month of diagnosis. He wasn't impressed...he says I need to go lower...
2) Dr Bernstein had observed the seemingly magical 83mg/dl (4.6 mmol) in normal healthy people for years. more recent CGM studies are showing the same...and I observe this (80-85mg/dl) on my last 3 day fast. RD Dikeman (Typeonegrit) blog mention the target in passing...
https://myglu.org/articles/our-journey-with-the-low-carb-diet-and-the-manual-artificial-pancreas
3) Jenny Rhul - What is normal blood sugar?
4) Chris Kresser - Why your normal blood sugar isn't normal

So basically, like our body temperature, blood glucose may also have a preferred/optimal very tight set point ( 4.6 mmol?) and the body tries hard to maintain that.

 

[MaxineKL]

The suggestion of FBG < 5.0 mmol came from mainly the following sources.
1) my endocrinologist mentioned that in passing, When my fasting level was significantly reduced from over 10 mmol to < 6 mmol within 1 month of diagnosis. He wasn't impressed...he says I need to go lower...
2) Dr Bernstein had observed the seemingly magical 83mg/dl (4.6 mmol) in normal healthy people for years. more recent CGM studies are showing the same...and I observe this (80-85mg/dl) on my last 3 day fast. RD Dikeman (Typeonegrit) blog mention the target in passing...
https://myglu.org/articles/our-journey-with-the-low-carb-diet-and-the-manual-artificial-pancreas
3) Jenny Rhul - What is normal blood sugar?
4) Chris Kresser - Why your normal blood sugar isn't normal

So basically, like our body temperature, blood glucose may also have a preferred/optimal very tight set point ( 4.6 mmol?) and the body tries hard to maintain that.

I really appreciate this information, kokhongw. I've been living in a bit of a fool's paradise recently, pleased that I could keep my FBS in the fives (with occasional dips into the 4's) most of the time by moderate Low-carbing and (crucially) a minimum of 10,000 brisk steps of on top of incidental around-the-house walking. Now I see that's not that great. I haven't had an "official" (i.e. medical lab) FBS below 5 for over 20 years and had clear signs of insulin resistance (verified by a self-administered 5-hour glucose tolerance test in university as a 33-year-old 'mature student'). I'm now a 75-year-old 'pre-diabetic' determined to stave off type two by diet and exercise alone. I hope it's not too late to do that!

 

[kokhongw]

. I haven't had an "official" (i.e. medical lab) FBS below 5 for over 20 years and had clear signs of insulin resistance (verified by a self-administered 5-hour glucose tolerance test in university as a 33-year-old 'mature student'). I'm now a 75-year-old 'pre-diabetic' determined to stave off type two by diet and exercise alone. I hope it's not too late to do that!

Glad that you found it useful.

While it is good to strive for lower blood glucose, it may come with much greater risks of hypoglycemia as we age. Because prolong insulin resistance in our brain makes sudden glucose dips so much more dangerous. Loss of consciousness or balance can cause life threatening injuries.

So I would caution against any extra-ordinary efforts to get to the "ideal" level.

To have been able to maintain "pre-diabetic" status for 20 years is truly remarkable given the amount of misinformation that has been going around. I hope I will be able to write that twenty years on .