Horizon Thin Fat - what was your birth weight

[witan]

If you didn't see horizon last night try to see it on iPlayer.

As a slim Type 2 it was of great interest to me, showing that all type 2s are not the result of obesity or metabolic syndrome; but that it can be due to poor nutrition in the womb! With a significant proportion of underweight babies going on to develop Type 2 diabetes and related disorders. Although being thin these people always carry a disproportionate level of fat throughout their lives.

Unfortunately I don't know my birth weight, but it was likely to be low as my mother was in recovery from Polio at the time of my birth.

Are any of the other light weight Type 2s aware of their birth weight?
Might there also be some link to babies born in the war or during rationing when there would be more likelyhood of underweight births? Could this be a cause of diabetes epidemics?

It would be great to gather some feedback from the forum on whether this theory holds water.

But at least it highlights the many possible causes of diabetes and perhaps could lead to better support or a 'cure' for some and eventually all suferers.

 

[WhitbyJet]

witan - yes was in interesting programme.
My birthweight was 6lb 2oz, my siblings all weighed in a lot heavier, yet I am the only one that has developed type 2.
I already had symptoms of it in childhood and I grew into a rather chubby child from the age of 5 or so. Nobody took my symptoms seriously, unheard of in a young child, I was around 10 when symptoms started.
When I was 11, during a hike, I peed behind a bush and a whole load of ants rushed there straight to that spot, my friend noticed this and thought it was funny. I also had yeast infections but all was blamed on - oh it wont be long before she reaches puberty - until I was diagnosed 2 weeks before my 20th birthday. By that time I had already developed neuropathy and dropfoot, according to my consultant this would suggest that I have been diabetic well before the actual diagnosis was made.

 

[catherinecherub]

I found this a fascinating programme and well worth watching. It covered so much about life in the womb and how internal and external influences shape our futures health wise and personality wise.

The research in India about Type2 Diabetes was particularly brilliant. It showed that you do not have to be outwardly obese to display the symptoms and it all depends on how much fat your body carries.
Following underweight children from birth showed that they were insulin resistant at all the intervals that they were measured at up to the age of 21. It turned the stereotyping of Type2's on it's head.



For anyone wanting to watch it, here is a link.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b013ywz4

 

[Patch]

Thanks CC - I'll be watching that tonight.

 

[viviennem]

I watched it too, and found it very interesting. It could well be an explanation for at least some of the lean Type 2s.

I was born in 1949, so my mum was still on rationing before I was born. I weighed in at 8lb 8oz (4kg in new money) and am an obese Type 2 so no link there. However - it did make me wonder about all of us 'baby boomers' who were conceived and carried during rationing - were our mums getting all the correct micronutrients?

I know the rationing period diet has been held up as an excellent way to eat, but it was quite high carb, and it must have been quite difficult to keep up with eating lots of fruit and veg, particularly in towns - even despite 'Dig for Victory'. My mum kept a post office in Armley in Leeds - I know she was in a 'pig club' but I don't ever remember her mentioning growing veg.

Is there an easy way of finding out how many of us Type 2s were born between (say) 1938 and 1953? Could the Type 2 "epidemic" be somehow related to rationing? Simplistic, I know.

We need a geek here. With all this digitising of our NHS records, all it needs is the right bit of software to pull it all out.

I found the concept of 'thin fat' people mind-blowing. Shows how misleading BMI can be in some circumstances. I know people who are bigger than me (clothes size) who weigh less than I do :cry:

As for influences in the womb - I was born four days late. The night I should have been born my mum was at the opera in Leeds, watching a performance of 'Aida'. (Brave lady!) It could explain a lot :lol: .

Viv 8)

 

[catherinecherub]

I did find more information from the Scientist who is at the forefront of the research.
http://www.thebarkertheory.org/heart.php

If, as you suggest Viv, that Type2 could somehow be related to rationing for people born during that period, the question remains as to why all people subjected to rationing are not Type2's. The carb intake was high but there were plenty of ways to work it off as the lifestyle was far from sedentary.

I am of the opinion that one day there will be sub divisions within a Type2 diagnosis.

 

[viviennem]

If you add 'micronutrients' to 'gene switches' - as usual, we are all different! For once I am not 'blaming' high carb in this :lol: - I am suggesting that maybe some people got less fresh fruit & veg than others during rationing, which triggered (or not) different gene switches.

My brother, born 1947, was a 'skinned rabbit' at birth - a very long baby and now a tall man. He has the same weight problems that I have but manages his better, so has never been as obese. He's not diabetic - yet! though I did tell him to tell his GP that I am.

Sorry, CC, just musing! I agree with you about subdivisions in Type 2, though without your knowledge. Thanks very much for the link - I'd like to read more about the theory, and the man.

Viv 8)

 

[Unbeliever]

I have always suspected that the formula milk - high in sugar could have had a bearing. I don't think i was changed for years but certainly produced bonny bouncing babies. I also remeber sweet rationing..
This actually led to many young children eating more sweets than when raioning eneded as adults would allow children o have their sweet or sugar rations.
I am sure that I am a thin "fat person. Even when under seven stone I had a slight midriff bulge althugh I have always had slim around the hips stomach and bottom. I have lost a lot of weight this year but the slight spare tyre persists stubbornly. Probably full of toxins . Yuck!

 

[Sanober]

Thanks for this Witan

My (Pakistani) mum was a skinny 7 stone at 5ft 4 when she got pregnant with me. BUT I was an eight pounder baby :lol: , breast fed, had bronchial problems the first year of my life. I've had various odd health problems all my life (and continue to do so!) I was about 9 stone for most of my teen years, for 5ft 4 that's not too bad.

I was 10st 4lbs in Dec 2010 - always exercised but I less during winter months! I increased it on the back of my 'glucose intolerant' result in Dec 2010, I'm now 9st 6lb with a goal to get to 8.5stones.

My mum developed become overweight after she had her 6th child (due to various health issues and medications) and was DX T2 about 7 years ago - (3 years in she was on insulin).

Just about to watch this programme, sounds very interesting.

Funnily I went for my follow up with the Diabetologist today - MODY 1 and 3 tested and ruled out now and yet I continue to be 'an unsual case' i.e slim Diabetic.

He was murmuring about LADA and insulin rather than faffing about with pills first. But for now whatever it is, it is not progressing that quickly and I don't any real debilitating symptoms, so I will continue to be monitored and he is encouraging self testing and keeping a food diary for my next visit.

 

[pianoman]

Many thanks for posting this witan. I just watched the documentary -- highly recommended. The idea of optimal nutrition for Mothers even before they become pregnant, seems so obvious and yet this study sheds new light on how vitally important the quality of our food can be... even more so than the quantity. Early prevention taken to an whole new level.

 

[Cowboyjim]

Twas indeed a rivetting prog that was enervating and I will likely rewatch it unlike most Horizon progs. Last week's was dire in comparison.
I took away relief that it was not my fault - ****** lifestyle, which is untrue, plus it is likely not genetic, so I will hopefully not see this evil plague emerge in my two kids, phew.
Now I am going to ring my mum and see if she knows my birth weight and that of my sis who is not T2 and her husband who is... maybe soon we will generate out own stats table!
Altogether this was a documentary the Beeb can be proud of. It also impressed me that you do not have to be in "big science" (like last week's) to contribute to the development of good science that enriches us all.
IMHO everyone on this forum should make sure they see it. 8)

Update: I was 7 lbs 5 oz over half a century ago, my sis was around 9 lb 2 years younger than me and so far no DM thankfully. My kids were over 8 lbs so fingers crossed.

 

[Cowboyjim]

This prog is repeated Sunday.

 

[Unbeliever]

Must watch it. I think it is almost self-evident that the war and the deprivation stress ec surroundig it must have affected the generation born during and shorly after the war.
Whether the diet was good or bad I imagine that babies were affected by mothers who smoked as almost everyone did - and was encouraged to do o stave off hunger pangs and reduce stress.

 

[viviennem]

Smoking must be factored in there somewhere - though my mother never smoked, and my father got his tobacco fix by taking snuff! I don't think he smoked even in the trenches.

Sanober, I too had respiratory problems as a child, regular bronchitis, which I grew out of by about 6 but got whooping cough at 13 (despite childhood vaccines) which nearly killed me! Never underestimate these diseases!

Following whooping cough I had allergic hay fever/asthma during the hay season from being 14 to about 23. Okay since then.

Just goes to show what a complex subject this is!

Viv 8)

 

[Sanober]

Smoking must be factored in there somewhere - though my mother never smoked, and my father got his tobacco fix by taking snuff! I don't think he smoked even in the trenches.

Sanober, I too had respiratory problems as a child, regular bronchitis, which I grew out of by about 6 but got whooping cough at 13 (despite childhood vaccines) which nearly killed me! Never underestimate these diseases!

Following whooping cough I had allergic hay fever/asthma during the hay season from being 14 to about 23. Okay since then.

Just goes to show what a complex subject this is!

Viv 8)

HOW ODD - I suddenly developed hayfever at 18 and have never been able to wear contact lenses during the day since then (I wear them on a night out but always have eye drops). This year I binned all vit supplments and hayfever remedies and erm I don't have hayfever (dry throat and dry eyes persist though and dry skin). I wonder if those who develop Diabetes have had various other health problems and particularly auto-immune related problems.

 

[hallii]

I have a theory that if some people can be "fat thin" then I reckon I am "thin fat" at least in my head

H

 

[viviennem]

re contact lenses - I'm just the opposite, Sanober! I've worn hard lenses since I was 22 (still on gas permeables very nearly 40 years later) and I haven't had hay fever since I got them.

One optician suggested it might be because of the thin film of extra liquid they float on, washing the pollen out of my eyes. Still don't get it, despite living in hay country (you should just smell this dale at hay-time!).

The auto-immune connection seems definitely one to explore.

Viv 8)

 

[angieG]

Just watched the programme....certainly an interesting study.

Viv, regarding allergies etc, I have had two periods in my life about 20 years apart when for months I had bad uticaria (nettlerash) where no cause could be isolated despite tests, diaries and the like. In both cases antihistimines only reduced the irritation rather than controlled it and both times the problem went as fast as it had arrived eventually. Would be interesting to find out how many diabetics have had allergy problems in the past.
Regards
Angie

 

[Sanober]

I'm going to start a fresh thread to enquire if anyone's had auto-immune disorders in their lives, out of curiousity I want to see if anyone who's had auto-immune disorders is pre-disposed to developing Diabetes (I know T2 isn't auto-immune but something does trigger the insulin to become resistant and it's not an inevitable consquence of being overweight/having poor diet etc).

 

[ClaireG 06]

Allergy wise, i suffer from hayfever.

I'm very interested in any auto immune connection. I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and reynauds syndrome approx 5 years before getting my diabetes diagnoses. I have also been tested for other auto immune diseases eg lupus.