How can I control this?

[Miss Piggywig]

Hi, I am struggling to control numbers. I had good control until put on prednisolone. Now off it and can't get a handle on things.
Fasting was 5.2 this morning had 1 slice of bread, bacon and egg. (20g of carbs) and its gone up to 11.8. Even if I don't eat the bread it still goes up by about the same. I've cut the grass and been physically active for the last hour and a half. I won't get it back down today. Ideas welcome. Can't get an appointment with my diabetic nurse. ( should say I am on meds).

 

[ianf0ster]

Was that spike to 11.8 measured at 2 hrs after first bite? If not it could be a red herring.

One of the longer term side effects of Prednisolone is poorly controlled Diabetes. Steroids and stains are amongst the most common medications which raise Blood Glucose, but I have not previously heard about any of them increasing Insulin Resistance, which appears to be your situation since your fasting BG level was good.

Of course your liver may be more active in dumping glucose into your blood stream is you are suffering from injury, illness, stress or lack of sleep. Though none of these would seem so account for your BG going much higher after food and regardless of carbs (i.e. high spike at 2hr mark even on a zero carb meal).

 

[Angela64]

I don’t fast, I eat low carb high protein. There is a dietician called Marilyn Glenville, over 35yrs experience and she doesn’t advocate fasting for diabetics ‍

 

[ianf0ster]

I don’t fast, I eat low carb high protein. There is a dietician called Marilyn Glenville, over 35yrs experience and she doesn’t advocate fasting for diabetics ‍

Interesting that you and I interpreted the Op's statement in completely opposite ways.
I thought by a fasting level they meant before breakfast. You interpreted it as being the reading after a longer planned fast.

In either case, my comments still apply.

I find your opinion of fasting for a T2D unusual to say the least. Many T2D's cut down to 1 or 2 meals per day, others use Michael Moseley's 5:2 and still others (with a lot of weight to lose) do the longer fasts advocated by Dr Jason Fung.

I hadn't heard of Marilyn Glenville before you mentioned her name, but a quick google revealed that she specialises in women's hormone problems and sells supplements. Neither of which impress me of her suitability for advice on Type 2 Diabetes.

 

[Miss Piggywig]

Thanks for your replies
My fasting reading was on waking but with it been the weekend it was about 15 hours after I last ate. I have to take meds with food on waking so during the week I can't do the 16/8 intermittent fasting. I do take a meditation to help stop my liver dumping glucose into my system which has helped bring my morning measures down. Yes the figure was 2 hours after the meal. I have remained at between 11 and 12 all day. So I guess a positive day as it didn't raise to much after lunch or Dinner. But still frustrated
Thought-out the day my meals have contained about 20 g of carbs each, I do eat root veg which I can see me having to cut out.

 

[zand]

I don’t fast, I eat low carb high protein. There is a dietician called Marilyn Glenville, over 35yrs experience and she doesn’t advocate fasting for diabetics ‍

Is she Type 2 diabetic herself? I have been T2 for 12 years and my lived experience is that fasting is a great help in controlling my blood glucose levels.

 

[Grazer]

I was on Prednisolone for about 3 weeks trying to get rid of a chest infection with my COPD. Blood sugar levels were high no matter what I did. It took a week or two after stopping the pred but eventually they came back down under control so maybe don't worry too much yet.
Regarding diet, everyone to their own. Personally, I eat a moderate carb diet (about half the reccomended daily level for a man, 150 grams per day) spread over 3 meals.
I also ensure all food is low GI, and I use targeted exercise.
I've been diabetic for over 20 years and still only take half rate metformin, nothing else, and only take that for the cardio vascular benefits it purports to provide; it doesn't do much to BGs at the rate I take it if your BGs are already well controlled. So, it's what works for you that counts - rely on the meter.

 

[MissMuffett]

Hi the exercise (mowing the lawn etc) could have something to do with the rise. What would it be if you ate the same and tested 2 hours after the first bite but without mowing the lawn?

For the past 4 years I‘ve finished eating around 7:30pm and don’t eat again until lunch time the next day at 12:30pm. Apart from coffee with almond milk and double cream (which I class as breakfast but it doesn’t spike my BG) I suppose you could call that IF

 

[theoldfunker]

Hi, I am struggling to control numbers. I had good control until put on prednisolone. Now off it and can't get a handle on things.
Fasting was 5.2 this morning had 1 slice of bread, bacon and egg. (20g of carbs) and its gone up to 11.8. Even if I don't eat the bread it still goes up by about the same. I've cut the grass and been physically active for the last hour and a half. I won't get it back down today. Ideas welcome. Can't get an appointment with my diabetic nurse. ( should say I am on meds).

Well I've been there and it's taken a long time to understand food. I guess you have been diagnosed recently so there is much to learn about the body, the weather food and moods.
We all have unknown BG up and down. Myself gardening raises my BG to silly numbers at times and gardening in the sun even more so.
Choose bacon carefully as it has Sugar, white bread has sugar and ketcup will catch you out and when you panic 'cos your BG has gone up that does't help.
If you are concerned about a sudden rise in BG take your self to A&E I did in 2017 and glad I did you may think it a time waster but thay will give you a better check over. P,S, they told me I had a virus.

 

[Martin153]

I had bad chest trouble in 2016. Put me on those prednisolone things. Doctor never said a thing even though he knew I was type 1.
I googled it & it says these disgusting steroids can induce diabetes in people who aren't diabetic. I was living on cheese for a week.
Chest trouble, get to a salt cave, Himalayan salt lights, salt inhalers. Accepted treatment in many countries but it seems in the Uk doctors spend years training so they can dish out more & more steroids & antibiotics.

 

[Grazer]

Not sure why mowing the lawn would raise your BGs? Unless you're eating a bacon butty as you do it!
Maybe your blood sugar levels went a bit low and you had a quick liver dump? In which case the resulting rise in BG should only be for a while.

 

[Nicholas - T]

Well I've been there and it's taken a long time to understand food. I guess you have been diagnosed recently so there is much to learn about the body, the weather food and moods.
We all have unknown BG up and down. Myself gardening raises my BG to silly numbers at times and gardening in the sun even more so.
Choose bacon carefully as it has Sugar, white bread has sugar and ketcup will catch you out and when you panic 'cos your BG has gone up that does't help.
If you are concerned about a sudden rise in BG take your self to A&E I did in 2017 and glad I did you may think it a time waster but thay will give you a better check over. P,S, they told me I had a virus.

Breakfast is a nightmare I am normally up towards 8 when i get up in the morning i find my level slowly rises during sleeping, problem is I hate eggs avacardo and similar foods and end up eating chicken breast wrapped in lettice leaves for breakfast this does not take my levels up and generally after a walk before dinner I can eat a good low carb dinner.
Question is has anyone got some good breakfast food suggestions I am tired of most normal published ideas as they are normally egg, riced cauliflower etc.

 

[jomar_uk]

Hi, I am struggling to control numbers. I had good control until put on prednisolone. Now off it and can't get a handle on things.
Fasting was 5.2 this morning had 1 slice of bread, bacon and egg. (20g of carbs) and its gone up to 11.8. Even if I don't eat the bread it still goes up by about the same. I've cut the grass and been physically active for the last hour and a half. I won't get it back down today. Ideas welcome. Can't get an appointment with my diabetic nurse. ( should say I am on meds).

I truly feel for you. I was on preds till I was switched to a 3 monthly reducing course of Entecort (steroid specifically devoted for Crohns in small bowel as well as other areas).

The steroid caused me to have “steroid induced diabetes T2”. Whilst an in patient was put on met Forman and cliciacide? As my BG went really height.

Even in hospital whatever I ate seemed to spike them. The meds kicked in and I still have to be extra careful.

I am very much a beginner but I do know steroids can create havoc with BG readings.

Update, today is my last steroid so have to stay on metfirmin only and check my BG a lot daily especially next few days & weeks as my body withdraws from the steroid.

Someone wisely also advised me on here if your BG seems higher than expected to take a second BG test in case the test strip is “faulty”

You have my admiration getting this far.

Kind regards, JoMar

Ps can you not phone your hospital dietician or even your community diabetes team (in UK operates in conjunction with GP and where neccessary the hospital?)

 

[Zaphod]

Hi, I am struggling to control numbers. I had good control until put on prednisolone. Now off it and can't get a handle on things.
Fasting was 5.2 this morning had 1 slice of bread, bacon and egg. (20g of carbs) and its gone up to 11.8. Even if I don't eat the bread it still goes up by about the same. I've cut the grass and been physically active for the last hour and a half. I won't get it back down today. Ideas welcome. Can't get an appointment with my diabetic nurse. ( should say I am on meds).

I have given up worrying about fasting levels. I've been measuring BG for 25 years my readings rarely change, they do vary between 6.8 and 7.8 except when i got covid and it rocketed to 12 for 2 days. My hba1c in 1998 was 7.3 and last week was 53 ( about the same in new money).

 

[Angela64]

Is she Type 2 diabetic herself? I have been T2 for 12 years and my lived experience is that fasting is a great help in controlling my blood glucose levels.

Not sure fasting would be good for me. I went on a residential course that provided mainly very high carb food. I’d taken a few bits with me, cheese and Greek yogurts and fruit, mixed nuts. Main meals were impossible as lot of cheap high carb foods, yes I had told them in advance and no help. My levels were going down over the week, not too dire but I worry about overnight levels and this was the more concerning. I had no car with me so couldn’t drive out to a shop and walking was too far. Just survived as it was only a week. Different methods work for different people.

 

[Angela64]

Interesting that you and I interpreted the Op's statement in completely opposite ways.
I thought by a fasting level they meant before breakfast. You interpreted it as being the reading after a longer planned fast.

In either case, my comments still apply.

I find your opinion of fasting for a T2D unusual to say the least. Many T2D's cut down to 1 or 2 meals per day, others use Michael Moseley's 5:2 and still others (with a lot of weight to lose) do the longer fasts advocated by Dr Jason Fung.

I hadn't heard of Marilyn Glenville before you mentioned her name, but a quick google revealed that she specialises in women's hormone problems and sells supplements. Neither of which impress me of her suitability for advice on Type 2 Diabetes.

Thats fine, what ever, but she has been a professional for 35yrs, often quoted in the press. So a quick look wouldn’t really give good impression. And Michael Mosley is selling his books etc ‍ Her supplements will be good quality.

 

[Angela64]

Interesting that you and I interpreted the Op's statement in completely opposite ways.
I thought by a fasting level they meant before breakfast. You interpreted it as being the reading after a longer planned fast.

In either case, my comments still apply.

I find your opinion of fasting for a T2D unusual to say the least. Many T2D's cut down to 1 or 2 meals per day, others use Michael Moseley's 5:2 and still others (with a lot of weight to lose) do the longer fasts advocated by Dr Jason Fung.

I hadn't heard of Marilyn Glenville before you mentioned her name, but a quick google revealed that she specialises in women's hormone problems and sells supplements. Neither of which impress me of her suitability for advice on Type 2 Diabetes.

Just looked Michael Mosely up and was a Dr but worked for bbc since 1985, best known as a presenter

 

[ianf0ster]

Michael Mosely is/was a TOFI (like me) and has written many books on diets plus exercise to reduce obesity and put T2 Diabetes into remission, though he doesn't have the successful patient base (just ones in the various BBC series) and general low carb community estime held by for example Dr David Unwin or Dr Jasun Fung.
Mosely started out echoing the Direct study and Prof Taylor (of ultra low calorie diet fame), but as a TOFI himself has migrated more to Low Carb over the years.

 

[Grazer]

Personally, I'm not keen on ideas people like Moseley and others refer to as "putting diabetes into remission", or "reversing diabetes".
I think it gives people the idea of a "cure" - these people aren't cured, but like me and many others on here they are managing their BGs down to almost normal levels. Eat a mars bar and test your BG half an hour later and people would see that nothing has been "cured", simply managed to near non-diabetic levels.
Years ago there was a channel 4 program looking at people on the 800 calories diet, and at the end they joyously pronounced that most of the people had reversed their diabetes, and even used the word "cured". How many of those people thought "that's ok then, back to the pie and mash"

 

[Deleted member 475901]

Personally, I'm not keen on ideas people like Moseley and others refer to as "putting diabetes into remission", or "reversing diabetes".
I think it gives people the idea of a "cure" - these people aren't cured, but like me and many others on here they are managing their BGs down to almost normal levels. Eat a mars bar and test your BG half an hour later and people would see that nothing has been "cured", simply managed to near non-diabetic levels.
Years ago there was a channel 4 program looking at people on the 800 calories diet, and at the end they joyously pronounced that most of the people had reversed their diabetes, and even used the word "cured". How many of those people thought "that's ok then, back to the pie and mash"

I'm in remission - no diabetic drugs, And after being in remission for over 5 years I have the occasional day of eating more carbs.

After being in remission for about 6 months I upped my carb limit with no impact.
I try not to eat more than the new limit because of 'carb creep' and the fact that I still occasionally yearn for a jam doughnut or a chip buttie, but I do have days when I eat a lot more carbs than when I went into remission with no impact.
Yesterday was a difficult day due to a medical procedure, I was advised to eat toast with marmalade but no fats and black tea or coffee, then fast for a few hours. When I got home my throat was sore so I mostly ate carbs. Last night I was at 5.0, and this morning 4.6.

So if I went back to my old way of eating my numbers could go up eventually, but not after a single day of extra carbs.