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How do you fast if you're supposed to have breakfast?!

S

Sal87

Active Member
Messages
29
Location
Toronto, Canada
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Because I get an acute and long lasting dawn effect, with my BG numbers doubling between 5 a.m. and 2 p.m. while intermittent fasting, it has reasonably been suggested that I have a fatty, low carb breakfast upon arising. But does this not rule out intermittent fasting for me? I was doing an 18/6 most days but these high and long running dawn effect numbers are disturbing. In fact, only breaking the fast starts bringing them down.
 
bulkbiker said:
Break the fast. have some lunch then stop eating?
18-6 where the 6 starts at 8 am and finished by 2 pm?
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Yes, I'm hearing that. Skipping supper is going to be considerably harder than skipping breakfast, which Dr. Fung points out most of us don't want to eat anyway, but your suggestion makes sense.
 
Sal87 said:
Yes, I'm hearing that. Skipping supper is going to be considerably harder than skipping breakfast, which Dr. Fung points out most of us don't want to eat anyway, but your suggestion makes sense.
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Dr Fung suggests that early in the day eating followed by fasting may be "better" although as it doesn't suit our lifestyles it becomes harder. You could always just try one meal a day breakfast or maybe some extended fasting to see if you can "cure" the DP .. it took ages for mine to normalise even skipping breakfast every day. It may just take a while.
 
There are a few of us who try to eat a low to no carb breakfast early and then skip lunch and eat dinner. So not as good as an 18/6 but two 12hr slots (almost) give a significant proportion of the day not being bombarded with insulin. A short while of this might get the dawn phenomenon under control a bit and enable you to switch back to 18/6.

I switch between no breakfast and no lunch depending on how my day looks and what will work and how hungry I feel and what that mornings figures look like. I don’t seem to skip dinner much as it’s family time for us and it’s hard not eating then.
 
Coffee+cream+butter first thing in the morning (whenever that is for you) and then a meal at around 15:00 or later?
You might not quite get to 16/8 but then again 08:00 coffee +8 = 16:00 for OMAD then nothing to eat from then.
Hard to do if you are working, but you might slip the coffee+ to 10:00 and eat at 18:00?
 
I eat in the morning and then again in the evening - that gives me normal glucose levels day to day - as far as I know as I stopped testing some time ago, and my Hba1cs were at the top end of normal.
Being of a somewhat indolent and laid back nature I have wandered along eating a low carb diet and feeling fine for some years now.
I have never eaten very much compared to normal consumption, just been advised to eat the wrong foods and encouraged to eat three times a day have caused me the most problems over the years, but the lack of low carb foods out in the real world guided me to the eat well at home and take a flask of coffee with you option.
 
Sal87 said:
Yes, I'm hearing that. Skipping supper is going to be considerably harder than skipping breakfast, which Dr. Fung points out most of us don't want to eat anyway, but your suggestion makes sense.
Click to expand...

I do find skipping dinner harder than skipping breakfast, but if you need to eat early on, it’s your best option.
 
A coffee with a good amount of double cream worked for me, as soon as I got up and before getting washed and dressed etc. My body does not like any carbs in the mornings other that the few in cream. As it was a liquid breakfast I didn't count it as breaking the fast. I now just nhave one soft boiled egg.
 
I have found that keeping to the 'normal' meal times are an unnecessary evil.
If you regularly fast or doing a concerted effort to lower your carbs intake by skipping meals, then if you want to, you can eat when it suits you to eat as little as you want or as a fasting period. It does not mean that you need to eat more of certain foods either, because of nutrition. As we eat far too much anyway!

The important thing is to find your own personal balance of protein, fats and whatever carbs you allow yourself, to maintain regular blood sugar levels.

Best wishes
 
Friends, I have something quite useful from a Jason Fung article on the dawn effect. People without diabetes can let the liver shed its glucose without moderation. We all WANT that fatty liver to shed its glucose. But people with diabetes have to moderate the process. Dr. Fung on how they handle this in his Intensive Dietary Management program:

"In the IDM program, we typically use medications to keep blood sugars in a reasonable, but not low range during fasting. Insulin keeps all the sugar bottled up inside the body. If we stop insulin, there is a risk that it comes out much too quickly (like the overinflated ballon releasing all at once). So we want to use less insulin, but enough to release the stored sugars at a reasonable measured pace. A physician needs to adjust the medications to properly control the flow of sugar out of the liver."
 
I find to combat the dawn effect if you get up, give a small amount of insulin and go for a walk blood sugar will come down quickly.
 

The only person that told us we have to eat breakfast is Mr Kellog, the Quaker who also encouraged routine circumcision on baby boys at birth to prevent unpure activities. That nasty bit of advice still lingers too.
 
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