How do you know when you are in Ketosis?

[ellagy]

Can anyone tell me please?

 

[GrantGam]

You'll only know for definite if you test for ketones with a BG meter that offers that facility, or with ketone urine test strips.

Other than the above methods, it would just be guess work.

Grant

 

[ellagy]

You'll only know for definite if you test for ketones with a BG meter that offers that facility, or with ketone urine test strips.

Other than the above methods, it would just be guess work.

Grant

Thank you Grant

 

[bulkbiker]

If you are eating very low carb (less than 20g per day) then its pretty likely you will be in ketosis.
I find that fasting helps improve my ketone levels too and is much easier once you are fat adapted.
I use a Glucomen LX plus meter which you can get ketone strips for but they are pricey..
Just did a 2 day food free fast and had ketone level of 2.5 mmol/l this morning.

 

[ellagy]

If you are eating very low carb (less than 20g per day) then its pretty likely you will be in ketosis.
I find that fasting helps improve my ketone levels too and is much easier once you are fat adapted.
I use a Glucomen LX plus meter which you can get ketone strips for but they are pricey..
Just did a 2 day food free fast and had ketone level of 2.5 mmol/l this morning.

OUCH couldn't do a 2day fast...well done you. Thank you for your response bulkbiker I am eating up to 50g a day but in truth am much lower probably about 20g

 

[GrantGam]

Thank you Grant

That's no problem

I just read your recent post in the "Type 2s: What was your fasting blood glucose in a morning" thread. Although I don't know much about dietary ketosis; I think that you'd be unlikely to be in ketosis if your fasting BG was as high as 15.1mmol/L. I may be wrong, but I'd imagine that if you were burning fat for energy then your BG would not be as high.

I really don't want to say too much because I'm not as clued up as others, but you'll only enter proper dietary ketosis when you have depleted all your glycogen stores in the liver. Until such stage, these reserves will be trickling into your blood stream causing you to still be burning glucose (converted from glycogen) for energy.

Grant

 

[ellagy]

That's no problem

I just read your recent post in the "Type 2s: What was your fasting blood glucose in a morning" thread. Although I don't know much about dietary ketosis; I think that you'd be unlikely to be in ketosis if your fasting BG was as high as 15.1mmol/L. I may be wrong, but I'd imagine that if you were burning fat for energy then your BG would not be as high.

I really don't want to say too much because I'm not as clued up as others, but you'll only enter proper dietary ketosis when you have depleted all your glycogen stores in the liver. Until such stage, these reserves will be trickling into your blood stream causing you to still be burning glucose (converted from glycogen) for energy.

Grant

Thanks Grant

 

[bulkbiker]

OUCH couldn't do a 2day fast...well done you. Thank you for your response bulkbiker I am eating up to 50g a day but in truth am much lower probably about 20g

Of course you could..it's not that difficult. My longest is 7 days. Once you are fat adapted it becomes much easier. Try skipping a meal occasionally and see how you go. I haven't had breakfast for 11 months so fast from dinner the night before to lunch the next day about 16-17 hours every day.

 

[AndBreathe]

To be honest @ellagy , I haven't ever wasted much head space working out whether my ketosis state is in, out or shaken all about. At diagnosis, I only had one single goal - to get my blood numbers down to a healtier (ideally healthy) place. On my way there, I found myself losing weight, and my BP falling into line. My lipids also improved a lot.

My numbers are in my signature, and by my first HbA1c had gone to non-diabetic levels, then got a bit better too.

Provided my numbers stay in the same ranges, I'm neither losing more nor gaining weight significantly and my BP and lipids are behaving themselves I'll continue to ignore whether I'm in ketosis or not. I don't believe it to be the holy grail, although I have no issue with others' great interest it.

Life's too short for me to worry whether x, y or z thing had moved me into or out of ketosis.

 

[ellagy]

To be honest @ellagy , I haven't ever wasted much head space working out whether my ketosis state is in, out or shaken all about. At diagnosis, I only had one single goal - to get my blood numbers down to a healtier (ideally healthy) place. On my way there, I found myself losing weight, and my BP falling into line. My lipids also improved a lot.

My numbers are in my signature, and by my first HbA1c had gone to non-diabetic levels, then got a bit better too.

Provided my numbers stay in the same ranges, I'm neither losing more nor gaining weight significantly and my BP and lipids are behaving themselves I'll continue to ignore whether I'm in ketosis or not. I don't believe it to be the holy grail, although I have no issue with others' great interest it.

Life's too short for me to worry whether x, y or z thing had moved me into or out of ketosis.

That settles it then. I am not going to worry about it either. Many thanks for your reply

 

[AndBreathe]

That settles it then. I am not going to worry about it either. Many thanks for your reply

You can always have a crack at it later on, if you decide to, but I would suggest, for now anyway, that you stick with goals you can easily track your progress in. It's easy with finger pricks to learn if your numers are coming down. If weight is your thing, the scales give you feedback.

Once you've got yourself some way along the road, you can always try new challenges. Maybe that could be the time to have a crack at ketosis. Just my views, obviously.

Good luck with it all.

 

[ellagy]

You can always have a crack at it later on, if you decide to, but I would suggest, for now anyway, that you stick with goals you can easily track your progress in. It's easy with finger pricks to learn if your numers are coming down. If weight is your thing, the scales give you feedback.

Once you've got yourself some way along the road, you can always try new challenges. Maybe that could be the time to have a crack at ketosis. Just my views, obviously.

Good luck with it all.

Thank you AndBreathe....wise words

 

[Indy51]

I'm also in the not measuring camp - as long as (1) my BG is under control; (2) I'm not craving carbs; (3) I'm not ravenously hungry between meals and (4) my weight is stable, then I'm happy to assume I'm fat adapted. Not really bothered whether I'm in ketosis or not.

 

[Robbity]

You don't need to actually be (or know!) if you're in ketosis to know if you're reducing your glucose levels or your weight - it's a sort of optional extra. So just rely on your glucose meter and scales to see how you're doing, and if you need to know more you can do some Googling for information.

I originally started low carbing with a sort of Atkins diet effort, and he used ketosis as a kick start to get people into a very strict weight loss mode. For me ketosis incidentally helped me greatly with long term brain fog, which is mainly why I keep going - particularly since both my mother and maternal aunt suffered from senile dementia. But my meter and my scales are still my main low carb guides and tools.

Robbity

 

[tinyfilosofer]

That's no problem

I just read your recent post in the "Type 2s: What was your fasting blood glucose in a morning" thread. Although I don't know much about dietary ketosis; I think that you'd be unlikely to be in ketosis if your fasting BG was as high as 15.1mmol/L. I may be wrong, but I'd imagine that if you were burning fat for energy then your BG would not be as high.

I really don't want to say too much because I'm not as clued up as others, but you'll only enter proper dietary ketosis when you have depleted all your glycogen stores in the liver. Until such stage, these reserves will be trickling into your blood stream causing you to still be burning glucose (converted from glycogen) for energy.

Grant

What if he has so little insulin that the bg is just hanging around without being used? Then ketosis kicks in anyway no?

That's how one gets dka isn't it?

 

[Indy51]

What if he has so little insulin that the bg is just hanging around without being used? Then ketosis kicks in anyway no?

That's how one gets dka isn't it?

There is a difference between ketosis caused by a low carb ketogenic diet and DKA which is a serious health condition affecting people with little/no endogenous insulin. Since the OP is a Type 2, I'm assuming she's referring to the dietary intervention.

 

[Indy51]

@ellagy - I've heard in interviews with low carb/keto experts, that it can take several weeks to make the transition to fat burning instead of carb burning. If you've been running very high BG for some time, it probably takes even longer as your cells have essentially being marinating in both glucose and insulin. Your body is probably as confused as h3ll right about now

 

[GrantGam]

What if he has so little insulin that the bg is just hanging around without being used? Then ketosis kicks in anyway no?

That's how one gets dka isn't it?

As @Indy51 has said, there are differences between diabetic ketoacidosis and dietary ketosis. One is life threatening and the other is believed to be perfectly safe.

DKA is typically associated with Type1 due to the pancreas producing very little or no insulin at all. As you said, not enough insulin results in high blood sugars, which results in excessive fat burning for fuel, which results in DKA. I'd think that @ellagy has enough IOB from pancreas production and basal injections to keep those bloods (normally) at a good level. I think the 15.1mmol/L was not a typical value.

DKA can happen in T2D's, but it's a lot less common. There seems to be generally enough insulin produced by a T2D's pancreas to keep DKA away. It can happen, but it depends very much to what degree the T2D's pancreas has been damaged to. If it's to the same degree as a T1D (when MDI is required for example) then sure, the risk is a good bit higher.

Grant

 

[ellagy]

As @Indy51 has said, there are differences between diabetic ketoacidosis and dietary ketosis. One is life threatening and the other is believed to be perfectly safe.

DKA is typically associated with Type1 due to the pancreas producing very little or no insulin at all. As you said, not enough insulin results in high blood sugars, which results in excessive fat burning for fuel, which results in DKA. I'd think that @ellagy has enough IOB from pancreas production and basal injections to keep those bloods (normally) at a good level. I think the 15.1mmol/L was not a typical value.

Grant

Unfortunately Grant it seems that it is the norm... It is 15.5 again this morning.

 

[AndBreathe]

Unfortunately Grant it seems that it is the norm... It is 15.5 again this morning.

@ellagy - Forgive me if I missed somewhere, but what, if any medication are you taking for your diabetes at the moment? Your profile page doesn't give any clues.