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How highly would you recommend eating low carb?

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by Cookiebell, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. Charles Robin

    Charles Robin Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    There is always a huge amount of debate regarding this on the forums. I eat low carb myself, and it really helps me. However, I am not anyone else. Anyone with diabetes has to decide what information they choose to believe. What I would suggest though, is to properly investigate the claims. If there is a way of eating that a lot of people recommend, is it not worth at least finding out why. Look for claims for and against. Try to keep an open mind. If you google 'low carb bad killed my cat because of it and then my house burned down', you will probably find someone making a negative claim. If you're going to do that, also Google 'Low carb best thing ever, made my cat come back from the dead', and you'll probably find an equally positive claim.

    Anyone interested in low carbohydrate, go to YouTube and search for Dr Troy Stapleton. Get hold of a copy of Diabetes 101 by Jenny Ruhl. Check out Dr Richard Bernstein, and his book 'Dr Bernstein's complete diabetic solution.' And then, if you want a definitive answer to low carbohydrate, try it out. Again, give it a proper try, for a couple of weeks. Worst case scenario, it does nothing to help and you move on to something else.
     
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  2. Scandichic

    Scandichic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Carbs = sugar
    Carb is turned into sugar in your stomach then released into your blood stream. So eating carbs raises your bs. As bs is already too high if you are diabetic then eating 150g of carbs a day is utter madness. You just have to read the number of people who have managed to reduce their meds and insulin by switching to low carb. I think that this is the point Zand is trying to make. I have avoided insulin and reduced my meds by a two thirds by low carbing. HCP are obliged to support the healthy plate thinking so don't generally recommend low carbing because it does against the current thinking. So unless people stumble accross low carbing then they follow the healthy plate. There are pages and pages on this forum about the negative effect that this has had.
     
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  3. Scandichic

    Scandichic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I remember this lecture from the one time I saw my DNS who then ever red me to the hospital as a trouble maker for refusing to stop low carbing. Every time I see her in passing at the surgery she glares at me. I smile sweetly and very smugly. I guess it must be hard to face the fact that she was wrong about lchf. :hilarious:
     
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  4. Scandichic

    Scandichic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  5. Heathenlass

    Heathenlass Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I low carb, around 30 - 40g per day have done for many years, and almost never hypo . My last HbA1c was 42 and tends to be around that figure, with one exception. My figures doubled and I gained so much weight when as an experiment I adopted the NHS diabetic dietary advice, on the whole my diabetes control became uncontrolled , using way more insulin then I ever had. My current doses of Levemir are 10 am, 1.5 pm, and Novorapid around 10 units per day . More or less the same as pre NHS experiment.

    I believe the reason that I rarely hypo is mostly due to finally coming off Lantus, which was totally wrong for me, and the fact that I only need small amounts of insulin because of the low carb. Small doses mean less error for mistakes.

    Ironically, when I tried the NHS dietry advice, and my numbers and weight spiralled out of control, though it was from being " compliant " I experienced the worst kind of bullying for " non compliance ":rolleyes:. Though it was an awful experience, I learned something valuable, in many aspects of my own self care. I know myself better than any HCP , I have lived with this most of my life. I learned that the advice given was a no brainer for me, more carbs= more insulin = more weight gain = more insulin resistance = higher doses = higher doses= more margin for error. I also learned that the bolus advice for carbs did not work for me, no matter what my ratios were, thus a doubled HbA1c in three months. And still, throughout, I had the worst hypos of my life. Lantus was the cause of the hypos, by the additional carbs did not in any way reduce or lessen hypos. Which is why I started the experiment in the first place, as the official advice was that they were caused by the lack of carbohydrate in my diet :rolleyes:

    Previous to this, my levels were great, perhaps too low because of the anomalies caused by
    Lantus, which didn't exist on the older insulins for me. My weight resettled back to my usual lean weight without effort once I stopped the carb intake . Once Lanarus was exchanged for Insulatard, then Levemir, the hypos stopped, I lost the muscle pains, brain fog and other idiopathic symptoms, but that's a whole other story ;)

    I'm not advocating that low carb is something everyone should do, but to investigate it with an open mind, as there is some hard science behind it. Which is not true for the NHS diabetic dietry advice, which is very, very, flawed. To put it simply, the issues with diabetes, u nwellness, and complications are cAused by blood glucose being too high and the body's inability to cope with it. A high intake of carbohydrate which raises blood glucose further exacerbates the problem and makes it harder to control. Rather than medicate by increasing insulin levels to that what would not be found In a person without diabetes, and starting the whole vicious cycle I described above, it makes sense to me to minimise the cause ( carbohydrates ) and control becomes much easier .

    So how low in carbohydrates do you have to go to achieve this ? This is where it gets tricky, because it's highly individual, depending on any remaining pancreatic function, lifestyle and just plain tolerance. It's what you have to discover for oneself( speaking as a Type 1 here )

    That's my ( long winded!) take on it anyway, I hope it helped answer some of your question :)

    Signy
     
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  6. K-ate

    K-ate Type 1 · Member

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    That's great control; how are you finding the libre? I don't think it is yet available on NHS but do you think it is worth the cost? And I've seen a few threads about Tresiba being a good alternative to lantus, but hard to convince your doctor to prescribe; did you have any problems with this?
    Thanks
     
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  7. K-ate

    K-ate Type 1 · Member

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    Signy thanks so much for your answer which wasn't long winded at all but hugely helpful. Do you eat any carbs at all? When you say low carb would that mean almost nothing? For example I have a slice of wholemeal toast for breakfast (I find all cereals to be too sugary), usually a sandwich and fruit for lunch, sometimes crisps, and a normal meal in the evening which would include some carbs (pasta/potatos/rice) Would I need to adjust all there meals to remove the bread and other carbs? Thanks
     
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  8. Scardoc

    Scardoc · Well-Known Member

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    No argument against it - just giving my opinion to the OP question.
     
  9. Dillinger

    Dillinger Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Kate,

    I feel so strongly about this because it's a very simple answer to a complex problem; how to control blood sugars. As diabetics we are routinely told that we 'need' carbohydrate for energy or to maintain blood sugars and that is just not true. The opposite is the case.

    What is happening is that we are being steered away from fat and protein because they are (quite wrongly) considered to be problematic for diabetic end points (heart disease and kidney failure respectively).

    The basic science of blood sugar elevation and fat accumulation is well known and comes from the same foodstuff; carbohydrate. Now the details on this are quite nuanced and people enjoy arguing back and forth about the exact issues but the main point is if you drop as much carbohydrate from your diet as possible and replace it with fat and protein then your blood sugar control will be so much easier to handle.

    Here is my blood sugar diary for the weekend. I have one mile hypo as I overestimated the carbs in the food I had on Sunday lunch but I cleared that up without fuss or issue with 3 coffee beans covered in dark chocolate; I was at lunch at a friends house (that's not my normal hypo correcting strategy!).

    If I had been eating lots of carbs then that diary would have had a lot less green in it I'm sure.

    On the Sunday I had coffee for breakfast an amazing slow cooked lamb dish for lunch with a rocket salad and supper of curried eggs, ham, cheese and salad. I was not hungry at any point!

    Read Dr Bernstein The Diabetes Solution for the full details; it could change your life and read the low-carb threads on here there's lot's of information.

    Best

    Dillinger
    IMG_3363.PNG
     
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  10. sanguine

    sanguine Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Signy mentioned she does 30-40g carbs per day. That's a fairly typical intake for a very low carb high fat diet. You can't have no carbs at all, even green veg has a little.

    I would say that the diet you describe is far too high in carbs - regard them as you would sugar, they metabolise quickly to sugar after eating. The toast, sandwich, fruit (unless it's berries), crisps, pasta, potatoes, rice are all loaded. Have a read of www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
     
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  11. sanguine

    sanguine Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    A quote from the new book 'Doctoring Data' by GP Malcolm Kendrick:

    "The sad truth is that most of the advice we are now bombarded with varies from neutral to damaging. In some cases it can be potentially very damaging indeed. Advising people with diabetes to eat a low fat, high carbohydrate diet, for example. As a piece of harmful idiocy, this really could hardly be bettered".
     
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  12. LucySW

    LucySW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Low low carb is 30grams a day. That's what I do. Some do well on 50g (Smidge, I think). You try it out for yourself.

    Those 30g are made up, for me, of lots and lots of green veg and salad, plus some berries sometimes. A large helping of green veg or a plate of salad is about 6g. All veg except parsnips, swedes, sweet root veg are good. And I eat generously of meat, chicken, fish and eggs. And lots of butter, cream, olive oil. It's that that fills me up and makes me not hungry. LCHF doesn't have to be a high protein diet.

    I gave up rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and basically all desserts but berries and cream. I didn't want to eat them - I saw them as toxic, which in fact they were. All those foods you're having to cover with insulin at the moment. Without them and with only really, REALLY healthy green veg, your insulin doses will drop. So they'll be so much easier to manage!

    Think about it.

    And see the Jenny Ruhl nutritional calculator on the Diet page of her website. http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/33614154.php

    Lucy
     
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    #232 LucySW, Feb 9, 2015 at 5:21 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2015
  13. Diamattic

    Diamattic Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    When i was first diagnosed last year i just ate what i normally would eat, in an average day around 125g of carbs. Things were always 'ok' I have since noticed now that if i just eat a salad for my meal, i don't have to bolus at all. This is a nice little 'vacation' from diabetes if you will.

    I don't practice constant low carbing, but find that on non-gym days i will usually skip breakfast, then have a salad for lunch, and again a salad with maybe some vegetarian 'meat' alternative in it and then before bed some nuts and a banana or something like that. This entire day i would only have to take my basal injection.

    On a Gym day, i typically skip breakfast (i have NEVER eaten breakfast lol even as a young child i hated it and would fight against it) Then at lunch i have a salad again, and before the gym i would eat about 40g of carbs, go work out with weights and cardio, and then when i got back home i would usually be able to eat 20-30g of carbs again without bolusing as my sugars typically drop other the 2-3 hours at the gym/showering post workout. And again nuts and banana before bed. So like 80-100g of carbs on workout days, still with only maybe 1 bolus injection at dinner, for like 1-2 units.

    Based on this, i would highly recommend TRYING to reduce carbs as much as possible. The less carbs eaten is less insulin injected, is less of a chance you screwed something up and go high or low.

    If you alternate days, or go a few low carb days followed by a 'regular' day, etc you likely won't get any of the 'low carb' draw backs, but also won't go into ketosis or experiance any of the weight loss low carbing brings. BUT you will see a leveling off of your sugars throughout the low carb days AT LEAST. With is still a huge success in terms of overall A1Cs and even if it is every other day, your body will likely see a benefit in the long run in terms of cell damage from highs and lows.

    Essentially you don't HAVE to do it every day for the rest of your life to see benefits, every other day, or whenever you can will help in the long run. Making smart choices like having fish and veggies instead of breaded fish and chips, or pasta, or pizza, or whatever else, will all add up.
     
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  14. killerkaz

    killerkaz Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi there I am also doing slimming world and I would say 100% yes from my personal experience. I have been lowcarbing for just a few weeks, last week I lost 5Ib at class (slimmer of the week) tonight it was 3Ib (slimmer of the week again). Apart from the weight loss my blood sugars are always between 4and 7 with the odd exception, usually when I've eaten carbs. The help I got from everyone on here was fantastic as I was floundering at first. I also feel so much better in myself, not so tired, better concentration, no indigestion. All I can say is give it a go you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
     
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  15. robert72

    robert72 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I would feel lost now without the Libre. I've had a few sensors that were slightly erratic but Abbott have replaced them. They are a bit pricey, but I am happy to continue using them for the time being.

    I really like Tresiba - very flat. My Dr wouldn't let me have it, as he'd had no experience of it, so I managed to get my consultant to prescribe it on the basis that I had inconsistent levels with Lantus and allergic reactions to Levemir.
     
  16. Heathenlass

    Heathenlass Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    You are welcome :)

    Do I eat any carbs at all ? Oh yes ! I eat like a horse, but less elegantly possibly :D The fact is, there are carbs in just about everything. And the food groups that are not carbohydrate, protein , and to an extent fat, will convert to glucose ( glucogenesis) along the digestive process, albeit more slowly. The difference is with low carb is that there is far more control over the blood glucose levels than eating carbs can ever be, even in a non diabetic. There is a far less sharp and pronounced spike in post prandial levels, so less of a slump ( hypo) later on. To go off track a little, the advice given is not to test one or two hours post meal, but to test before the next meal and add a correction dose of needed. The problem , or rather problems with this is the you firstly have no idea what those post meal levels are - how high and what foods cause this effect. A second problem is that between meals, your glucose levels will probably be higher than they should be ( evidence - if you need a correction dose, your bloods have been running highball of the time since your last meal. So, that's everyday. Over a long period of time.

    I can suggest you try a wee experiment- after eating toast, or a sandwich and fruit, test one hour, then two hours after eating. If you are happy with those numbers, ( taking into account you will still have some insulin on board ) then no problem :) If they are higher than you would like, then you can make some adjustments to your diet.I don't like the word " remove" as it suggests a kind of self denial and deprivation, but yes, if they give you unacceptable spikes, they will need to be substituted. The good news is, the substitutions are downright delicious , healthier by far, and go a long way in gaining good control. This is a sample of my day :

    Breakfast : Chia seed porridge with flaked almonds, two slices of toast made with my own home made ( dead easy !) low carb bread spread with marmite and seriously strong cheddar spread. Sometimes I substitute the chia porridge with full fat Greek yoghurt and blueberries if my disorganised self forgets to make the porridge up in advance :rolleyes:

    10 am. snack: 9 bar original .

    Lunch : home made veg soup, more low carb bread at 3g per slice, yogurt if not eaten at breakfast. Slice ( ummm, large chunk , lol ) of cheddar.

    Afternoon snack: another 9 bar ( because I like them. A lot !:p )

    Dinner: Cauliflower crust pizza, or curry and cauliflower rice, veggie sausage and cauliflower or celeriac mash made with cream cheese, followed by sugar free jelly, blueberries and cream.

    Evening snack : hot chocolate made with cocoa, boiling water, spoonful of stevia and topped up with cream, with one bar of Aldi 85% dark chocolate . .

    Actually, reading back though this I realise I sound like a right glutton,:D I have to say though that I work outdoors in a demanding job, so burn a lot of calories ;) And I know that all that cream and cheese sounds unhealthy by the standard dietry advice, but my cholesterol numbers are spot on, even taking in to account the Great Cholesterol Controversy anyway ( another example of flawed " science" that I won't go in to here :rolleyes: As for my weight, I'm a lean, mean Diabadass :D

    I would recommend Trudi Deakin's "Eat Fat" as an introduction to low carb , there are links in the Low Carb forum if you are interested :) Oh and please don't be put off by the multiple mentions of cauliflowers in my post- they are really versatile, and a diabetics best friend as far as substitutions go :D But I hold my hand up that I may be rather more enthusiastic about them than most :D

    Signy the pig :D
     
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  17. LucySW

    LucySW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Gosh seriously yummy
     
  18. bellabella

    bellabella Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Do you by any chance have a recipe for the low carb bread ? Your diet sounds fab!!
     
  19. LucySW

    LucySW Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes please, recipe. Also for the chia seeds porridge. Panting here.
     
  20. Charles Robin

    Charles Robin Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    You can find a recipe for low carb bread at http://www.lowcarbdiabetic.co.uk/Recipes.htm
    I have actually modified the recipe, I use 140g ground flax and 140g ground almonds. This does put the carbohydrate content marginally higher, but I find that too much flax doesn't agree with me. I find I need to bake for about 40 minutes when I use the flax/almond combination.
     
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