How highly would you recommend eating low carb?

[jack412]

see Dr, there are fors and against for met and t1..more chance of hypo, but for a selected group its of benefit
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/756139

I'd do LC/LCHF first than maybe metformin under strict supervision later if needed

 

[zand]

Yes I would recommend you reduce your carbs Cookie, you don't have to go too low-carb if you don't want to but reducing them by around a third or a half (depending what level of carbs you eat now) will produce good results when it comes to bg control and the amount of insulin you inject.

Many of us type 1's on the forum eat carbs in moderation, meaning we don't do low-carb as in under 50g a day but eat around 100 - 200g a day, it produces the same results and means less insulin but not eating a diet that is too restrictive and still includes carbs such as root veggies, fruit, pasta , wholegrains and bread should you choose. to what level of carbs someone drops down to is determined by their bg levels and how much they want to limit the carbs in their diet.
.

It's true you don't HAVE to truly low carb, but if you gradually reduce your carb intake and find this helps why wouldn't you carry on and get down to <50g? If something works why not do it properly? It HAS to be sensible to reduce drugs to a minimum. A low carb diet isn't so very restrictive once you get used to it and I would rather have a restricted diet than restricted mobility in later years.

 

[LucySW]

I'm T2 but believe strongly in minimising meds in all things. Eating low carb enables me to do without meds. If I was T1 I would want to minimise insulin dosing. Why anyone would want to take more poison just because there's an antidote handy defeats me.

Well said. Can't improve on that. My experience and feeling exactly.

 

[noblehead]

It's true you don't HAVE to truly low carb, but if you gradually reduce your carb intake and find this helps why wouldn't you carry on and get down to <50g? If something works why not do it properly? It HAS to be sensible to reduce drugs to a minimum. A low carb diet isn't so very restrictive once you get used to it and I would rather have a restricted diet than restricted mobility in later years.

Of course you could reduce it to 50g a day if that suited you, by why would you want to do that if you can get the same results by eating say 120g a day.

There's no reason to restrict carbs any more than you need to, I think if many people started by reducing their carb intake and slowly reduced it to a levels that they can find comfortable to maintain then we wouldn't see all these 'falling off the wagon' threads, admittedly some do find going very low-carb easy but others don't, I know I couldn't stick with eating 50g or below in the long-term, hence why I decided to eat them in moderation and as part of a healthy well balanced diet.

 

[zand]

Of course you could reduce it to 50g a day if that suited you, by why would you want to do that if you can get the same results by eating say 120g a day.

There's no reason to restrict carbs any more than you need to, I think if many people started by reducing their carb intake and slowly reduced it to a levels that they can find comfortable to maintain then we wouldn't see all these 'falling off the wagon' threads, admittedly some do find going very low-carb easy but others don't, I know I couldn't stick with eating 50g or below in the long-term, hence why I decided to eat them in moderation and as part of a healthy well balanced diet.

As sanguine has already said to reduce insulin and other drugs to a minimum. Personally I'd rather fall off a wagon than never bother getting on one in the first place. OK I'm type 2. So what do I know of this? Well I wish I had known about low carbing 6 or more years ago. At that time I was gradually discovering it for myself but wasn't yet there and also not yet diabetic. A dear family friend was and was eating moderate carbs (150g) and was on insulin. I so wish I had known about low carbing in time to save her leg being amputated. This is why I feel passionate about LCHF. This is why I don't feel we should pat people on the head and say 'there, there, eat what you want and take the drugs to compensate' It's just my personal view that people need legs more than they need carbs. Of course some you of will argue, you always do. Fair enough some type 2's are controlled by diet only and don't need to go as low as 50g, I have no problem with this, what I do have a problem is with people taking drugs so that they can eat more carbs.

 

[Hooked]

It's true you don't HAVE to truly low carb, but if you gradually reduce your carb intake and find this helps why wouldn't you carry on and get down to <50g? If something works why not do it properly? It HAS to be sensible to reduce drugs to a minimum. A low carb diet isn't so very restrictive once you get used to it and I would rather have a restricted diet than restricted mobility in later years.

I know if I made myself stick to 50g or less a day I'd end up failing and just thinking "****** this" and go back to eating lots of carbs again. By reducing my carbs to a level I am happy with I am much more likely to stick at it and reap the benefits of improved HBA1C, less impact of time when dose/varb amounts are misjudged.

God for you if you can stick to lower carb amounts, more power to you. But it's not for everyone and I for one won't feel bad that I'm not able to do it. Heck, I'm doing much better now than I've ever done at this Type 1 diabetes lark in the 27 years I've had it.

 

[Cookiebell]

As sanguine has already said to reduce insulin and other drugs to a minimum. Personally I'd rather fall off a wagon than never bother getting on one in the first place. OK I'm type 2. So what do I know of this? Well I wish I had known about low carbing 6 or more years ago. At that time I was gradually discovering it for myself but wasn't yet there and also not yet diabetic. A dear family friend was and was eating moderate carbs (150g) and was on insulin. I so wish I had known about low carbing in time to save her leg being amputated. This is why I feel passionate about LCHF. This is why I don't feel we should pat people on the head and say 'there, there, eat what you want and take the drugs to compensate' It's just my personal view that people need legs more than they need carbs. Of course some you of will argue, you always do. Fair enough some type 2's are controlled by diet only and don't need to go as low as 50g, I have no problem with this, what I do have a problem is with people taking drugs so that they can eat more carbs.

I'm a bit confused, surely her leg was amputated due to complications of high blood sugar, not simply because she was eating 150g carbs? Yes, eating fewer carbs might have made her diabetes easier to control but it's not a given that she would face amputation otherwise?

 

[Cookiebell]

I know if I made myself stick to 50g or less a day I'd end up failing and just thinking "****** this" and go back to eating lots of carbs again. By reducing my carbs to a level I am happy with I am much more likely to stick at it and reap the benefits of improved HBA1C, less impact of time when dose/varb amounts are misjudged.

God for you if you can stick to lower carb amounts, more power to you. But it's not for everyone and I for one won't feel bad that I'm not able to do it. Heck, I'm doing much better now than I've ever done at this Type 1 diabetes lark in the 27 years I've had it.

Totally agree with all of this.

I think lowering the amount of carbs I have will be a great starting point for me and if I feel the need to reduce them further, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Thanks all!

 

[Hooked]

I don't feel we should pat people on the head and say 'there, there, eat what you want and take the drugs to compensate' It's just my personal view that people need legs more than they need carbs. Of course some you of will argue, you always do. Fair enough some type 2's are controlled by diet only and don't need to go as low as 50g, I have no problem with this, what I do have a problem is with people taking drugs so that they can eat more carbs.

Insulin is a hormone that type 1 diabetics don't produce, not a drug.
You are lucky in that your body still produces some insulin naturally; ours don't!

Do NOT come on here telling people that they are at risk of losing limbs if they eat carbs, that is very dangerous advice to be giving out. The important factor is blood glucose levels under good, steady, maintainable control. Be that gained through a low carb diet or not.

Type 1 diabetics need to inject/pump insulin into their bodies regardless of whether or not they are eating carbs; other wise they'd become extremely ill and eventually die.

 

[zand]

Yes of course type ones need insulin. I didn't say they didn't need it! I said it's madness to take more insulin just so you can eat more carbs and that it's obviously better to keep any drugs and insulin to a minimum. The OP is concerned about losing weight so cutting carbs has to be good surely? My friend was also a type one.


Edit: I've also known another lady in the same situation, she was type 2.

 

[Dillinger]

Do NOT come on here telling people that they are at risk of losing limbs if they eat carbs, that is very dangerous advice to be giving out. The important factor is blood glucose levels under good, steady, maintainable control. Be that gained through a low carb diet or not.

I think @zand's quote is brilliant; "It's just my personal view that people need legs more than they need carbs".

As you know currently 94% of Type 1 diabetics fail to get HbA1cs below 6.5% Type 1 diabetics are told to dose adjust to 'eat normally' which means eat carbohydrates.

I think it is completely reasonable to equate carbohydrate with poor control; look at those statistics!

You might have a justification for your shocked CAPITALS if zand was suggesting dropping an essential nutrient, but she is not; she just pointing out to someone who is asking about reducing carbohydrates that the best way to get better control is to do just that and remove the problem to the greatest extent possible.

Best

Dillinger

 

[noblehead]

As sanguine has already said to reduce insulin and other drugs to a minimum. Personally I'd rather fall off a wagon than never bother getting on one in the first place. OK I'm type 2. So what do I know of this? Well I wish I had known about low carbing 6 or more years ago. At that time I was gradually discovering it for myself but wasn't yet there and also not yet diabetic. A dear family friend was and was eating moderate carbs (150g) and was on insulin. I so wish I had known about low carbing in time to save her leg being amputated. This is why I feel passionate about LCHF. This is why I don't feel we should pat people on the head and say 'there, there, eat what you want and take the drugs to compensate' It's just my personal view that people need legs more than they need carbs. Of course some you of will argue, you always do. Fair enough some type 2's are controlled by diet only and don't need to go as low as 50g, I have no problem with this, what I do have a problem is with people taking drugs so that they can eat more carbs.

But what if you've already reduced your insulin needs and still eat around 150g of carbs a day Zand?

As type 1's we produce little or no insulin so need to inject insulin come what may, I've been a member on here long enough to know that ultra low-carb diets don't mean very low insulin doses, there's a few type 1's on the forum who do eat a LCHF diet and are on similar doses of insulin to those who eat carbs in moderation, we have discussed this many a time on the forum before and it's surprising how little difference there is. As I said in my original post that you highlighted earlier, it's a good idea to reduce the carbs in your diet but to what extent depends on your bg readings and personal preference, no point in sticking to a diet that you struggle with. We have had type 1 members on here who have tried a LCHF diet and struggled to get good control, going that low can make insulin dosing problematic and there was a member just a few weeks ago struggling to do just that, despite the best efforts of the type 1's on the forum offering their help and advice.

As an example, if eat a low-carb breakfast of bacon & eggs or a cheese omelette I would need to inject 4 units of quick-acting insulin split into two doses, for my usual breakfast of porridge with milk, water, seeds, blueberries and yogurt (45g of carbs) I need to inject 5 units of QA insulin, so the difference is 1 unit......which you will agree is hardly worth worrying about .

As for your dear friend, that is sad but it's uncontrolled diabetes that results in amputations, I'm sure for those of us on the forum who don't follow who don't follow a LCHF diet (yet have good bg control) are no more at risk of amputations than those who do follow a LCHF diet.....wouldn't you agree Zand?

 

[noblehead]

Insulin is a hormone that type 1 diabetics don't produce, not a drug.
You are lucky in that your body still produces some insulin naturally; ours don't!

Do NOT come on here telling people that they are at risk of losing limbs if they eat carbs, that is very dangerous advice to be giving out. The important factor is blood glucose levels under good, steady, maintainable control. Be that gained through a low carb diet or not.

Type 1 diabetics need to inject/pump insulin into their bodies regardless of whether or not they are eating carbs; other wise they'd become extremely ill and eventually die.

That is a great post Hooked and so very true.

 

[jack412]

@noblehead the only T1's with LCHF problems I recall recently were about blousing. is this what you are referring to?


I don't disagree with the premise that you need to have a way of eating for the long term that you can live with..... providing it is meeting all of your health and diabetic outcomes
LET YE WITHOUT A1c OVER 6% and good BMI, CAST THE FIRST STONE [plagiarised from Dillinger]

there is the carb level that you can build/cut to where you don't crave carbs
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarb101/a/carblevel.htm

there is also T2 eating to your meter/drugs and T1 insulin carb ratio,... getting the carb low enough that you are able to have a stable BG within the normal range without unreasonable side effects.[everyone knows what they are]
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045524.php

 

[noblehead]

@noblehead the only T1's with LCHF problems I recall recently were about blousing. is this what you are referring to?

Yes and also being unable to stick to a restrictive diet that excludes carbs too.

It's extremely difficult to bolus for LCHF meals and most of those who have succeeded in doing so have found their own way, even experienced type 1's find it difficult to explain to others how they calculate a bolus dose for LCHF meals, as when this is replicated it doesn't always work, that is why type 1's always say that it's trial & error when it comes to bolusing for low-carb meals.

 

[jack412]

Yes and also being unable to stick to a restrictive diet that excludes carbs too.

It's extremely difficult to bolus for LCHF meals and most of those who have succeeded in doing so have found their own way, even experienced type 1's find it difficult to explain to others how they calculate a bolus dose for LCHF meals, as when this is replicated it doesn't always work, that is why type 1's always say that it's trial & error when it comes to bolusing for low-carb meals.

I take your point, but I think we will agree to disagree
I think if we do a head count, there are more T1 with healthy plate on here having trouble with insulin doses. a lot of T1 advice is how to do a basic basal test and sickday

I recall telling a couple about TAG total available glucose, heathenlass and one other comes to mind, with spiker and richard advising LCHF successfully
I recall you advising on split doses for some people as examples
tag, split dose, delayed or early dose can be called advanced management and is learnt along the way, it in now way negates its use because it's something else to learn

 

[AnnieC]

I

Of course you could reduce it to 50g a day if that suited you, by why would you want to do that if you can get the same results by eating say 120g a day.

There's no reason to restrict carbs any more than you need to, I think if many people started by reducing their carb intake and slowly reduced it to a levels that they can find comfortable to maintain then we wouldn't see all these 'falling off the wagon' threads, admittedly some do find going very low-carb easy but others don't, I know I couldn't stick with eating 50g or below in the long-term, hence why I decided to eat them in moderation and as part of a healthy well balanced diet.

I agree with that why would anyone want to restrict their self to less carbs than they know they can eat ok there is no logic to that.

 

[paul-1976]

I

I agree with that why would anyone want to restrict their self to less carbs than they know they can eat ok there is no logic to that.

Oh ok! Thanks!

 

[Heathenlass]

I think it would be difficult and unhealthy to aim for total exclusion of carbs, all you would be left with is fats and protein ( which I personally need to bolus for)

I have to say that I don't have any problems bolusing for very low carb as I do calculate the carbs in everything , vegetables included , but that's me My aim was to achieve good control, which I have , without needing a tanker load of insulin to do it. The one time in my life that I did higher carb over a significant period of time, my insulin needs tripled, and I wasn't at all happy with the way I felt on what I was eating.

It's not clear cut as people are so different, someone else may need higher insulin levels than I do for exactly the same diet, or be happy using more insulin so as to be able to eat more carbs. My personal issue is against diabetic nutritional advice to have starchy carbohydrates with every meal for quite baseless reasons ( in my opinion ) so that people who may not want or need to do eat more and suffer from poor BG levels and weight gain as a result . There should at least be options in advice given for people to find out what works for them instead of one size fits all advice.

Horses for courses, and my way suits me

To return to @Cookiebell ' s original question - yes, I do recommend it, but it takes a while to discover your personal levels and what works for YOU. Corn is carby, but doesn't spike me at all, wheat in any shape or form does It takes work, but you soon learn and adapt to something that is sustainable long term and for me it's got so that I don't even think about it apart from ferreting out new options ( thanks @Brunneria for the 9 Bars mention ! ) and adding to my enormous collection of low carb recipes that have resulted in some gorgeous grub and using foodstuffs in ways I never considered before

@AnnieC , to answer your question from my own perspective, I may be able to tolerate more carbs than I eat, but don't actually feel the need to or want to. I see nothing I would gain from that .


Signy

 

[Emmotha]

Hi. Good debate but I'm just going to answer the question

Yes! I recommend it! You don't have to 0 carb, but for me reducing carbs has meant reducing my insulin, losing weight and making my BS much more easy to manage.

I actually feel healthy! Healthy!! I haven't felt that for a long time. So for me it's an easy yes, if you want to try it go for it, gradually reduce your carbs and pad out your pasta with veg and meat