How insulin resistance begins in muscles

I was going to click on the link then noticed there isn't one.

It's from the book "How not to Die: Discover the foods scientifically proven to prevent and reverse disease", by Michael Geger, Gene Stone. Chapter 6 - How not to die from diabetes.

And here is a critical review of Greger's book (for those who want to see an alternate side to the argument)

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-not-to-die-review#section1

Wikipedia
Michael Herschel Greger (born 1972) is an American physician, author, and professional speaker on public health issues, particularly the benefits of a whole foods, plant-based diet and the harms of eating animal products. He is a vegan and the creator of NutritionFacts.org.

'Nuff said methinks.

I have little faith in low fat diets I have a good friend of many years standing who adhered to a low fat diet specifically the Rosemary Conley low fat diet for several years he did not lose a great amount of weight and remains to this day an insulin dependent T2 diabetic.

I on the other hand have never followed a specifically low fat diet and am now after loosing a lot of weight am in remission and no longer on meds for diabetes.

Go figure.

The subject of this thread highlights some very real concerns about the amount of information we are bombarded with, a concern @AdamJames touches upon in his thread https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/guidance-re-protein-amounts.132779/page-2#post-1680798 The first para of @Tannith's post would set alarm bells ringing for some readers who have come to this Forum to learn about LCHF and how it can help them, and is a perfect example of the utter confusion that can be caused if those readers are only just at the beginning of finding out what's what and what suits them. To be confronted by that paragraph, having perhaps taken on board that fat is NOT a demon, is a danger for some.

There is a massive (overwhelming) amount of information, good, bad and downright dangerous out there, often skewed by possibly questionable personal agendas and often not from personal experience. I have found myself thinking that life was, in some ways, better before the internet: we just got on with it. Of course that's a simplistic point of view - this Forum is a shining example of the good that comes from recounting personal experiences and taking the time to research objectively and to then pass on that research to others, for their benefit and for their information. It is easy to say 'read everything and then make you own mind up' but it can be impossible for some, when reading articles, to sift the wheat from the chaff and to suss out the sensible advice from the frankly barking.

Worthwhile looking into the process called 'de novo lipogenesis' - it's the creation of fat in the body from the consumption of carbohydrates. I wonder if Michael Greger ever mentions it? I somehow doubt it since he's obsessed with saturated fat from diet.

IMO, the man is a quack.

Sue192 said:

The subject of this thread highlights some very real concerns about the amount of information we are bombarded with

There is a massive (overwhelming) amount of information, good, bad and downright dangerous out there, often skewed by possibly questionable personal agendas and often not from personal experience. I have found myself thinking that life was, in some ways, better before the internet: we just got on with it. Of course that's a simplistic point of view - this Forum is a shining example of the good that comes from recounting personal experiences and taking the time to research objectively and to then pass on that research to others, for their benefit and for their information. .

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The site is also a shining example of the dangers inherant in assuming that some peoples personal experience is automatically transferable and therefore appropriate for others. It leads to the kind of assertions too often seen that someone “must” do x or that food y is “evil” or “sludge”.
I wince and worry in equal measure whenever I see members being told such things. Pesonal experience at the end of the day is just that and nothing more - to claim otherwise is pure arrogance
I eat low carb moderate fat because thats what works best for my body at the moment, although at other stages not,, but thats all I would ever claim

JohnEGreen said:

I have little faith in low fat diets I have a good friend of many years standing who adhered to a low fat diet specifically the Rosemary Conley low fat diet for several years he did not lose a great amount of weight and remains to this day an insulin dependent T2 diabetic.

I on the other hand have never followed a specifically low fat diet and am now after loosing a lot of weight am in remission and no longer on meds for diabetes.

Go figure.

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I believe very fervently that eating a la Rosemary Conley - of whom I was a fervent follower for years and my opinion re my own experience only - initially lost a fair chunk of weight with, via the low fat, high carb, low calories, exercise regime,and continued to loose and regained weight like a yo yo over the years on this supposedly healthy eating approach - is along with stress of being a carer the reason I developed diabetes. Following lCHF way of eating and managing my stress better seems to be putting it right. Results are in the blood glucose readings - now averaging 4.4 to 4.8 - and the almost three stone weight loss. I never fully lost my middle fat on previous diets , of which there were many, and it usually went from where I didn’t want it to go from!

I have read the OPs quote from Greger's book four times now. I have often been accused of oversimplifying things but that is a personal trait of mine. What I get from the statement is that by rights I should be as weak as a kitten.

I would, however, like clarification on one point. I have not read/seen of any process by which IR can be 'visualised' using MRI. I was under the impression that the only measure was that of Dr. Krafts Insulin Assay or the Croft version of said. Is it daft of me to think that the process of measuring IR in muscle tissue would involve biopsy?

The amount of information out there certainly is overwhelming, even for someone like me who likes looking into this kind of stuff. I've reached almost complete fatigue. At least that might help me stick to one approach for more than a week however .

Indy51 said:

Worthwhile looking into the process called 'de novo lipogenesis' - it's the creation of fat in the body from the consumption of carbohydrates. I wonder if Michael Greger ever mentions it? I somehow doubt it since he's obsessed with saturated fat from diet.

IMO, the man is a quack.

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That was a new one to me only quite recently. I'm still not sure that everyone is fully aware of that from reading around on this forum. My take on it, and I don't think this is misinformation as it comes from what seems like a well thought out study...

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0113605

... is that yes, LCHF can be a great thing, but really, if you are going to really go large on the fat, then you need to go very small on the carbs, otherwise you are likely to have high levels of 'palmitoleic acid' circulating in your blood, and that correlates very strongly with metabolic disorder and heart disease.

The phrase in that report that stuck with me is:

"Proportionately, palmitoleic acid is the most responsive fatty acid to carbohydrate overfeeding and it drops precipitously when carbohydrate is limited to less than 50 g/day"

It made me realise that, like a lot of people, my 50-100ish grams of carbs a day, with a lot more fat that I used to have, is far from ideal!

So currently I'm aiming to keep well under 50g, more like 20g, which may make all the difference to what is actually floating around in my blood.

Guzzler said:

I have read the OPs quote from Greger's book four times now. I have often been accused of oversimplifying things but that is a personal trait of mine. What I get from the statement is that by rights I should be as weak as a kitten.

I would, however, like clarification on one point. I have not read/seen of any process by which IR can be 'visualised' using MRI. I was under the impression that the only measure was that of Dr. Krafts Insulin Assay or the Croft version of said. Is it daft of me to think that the process of measuring IR in muscle tissue would involve biopsy?

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My reading of the OP was that fat can be visualised in muscles with MRI, and that fat levels observed seem to correlate with IR, measured by other means not specified. Not that I'm saying that's true, just what I understood from the post.

AdamJames said:

My reading of the OP was that fat can be visualised in muscles with MRI, and that fat levels observed seem to correlate with IR, measured by other means not specified. Not that I'm saying that's true, just what I understood from the post.

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Thank you.

The point raised up thread about de novo lipogenesis is pertinent with regard to the OP quote and in regard to your own. It shows that a high fat high carb diet would in essence be the worst of all.

Guzzler said:

Thank you.

The point raised up thread about de novo lipogenesis is pertinent with regard to the OP quote and in regard to your own. It shows that a high fat high carb diet would in essence be the worst of all.

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Yes, my thoughts exactly. And HCHF is exactly what I've been doing for 25 years, so I suppose I should stop complaining about having Type 2 and instead be surprised I'm still alive. Which I sort of am.

AdamJames said:

Yes, my thoughts exactly. And HCHF is exactly what I've been doing for 25 years, so I suppose I should stop complaining about having Type 2 and instead be surprised I'm still alive. Which I sort of am.

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It is what many people are now eating in the Western diet.

Bluetit1802 said:

It is what many people are now eating in the Western diet.

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I'd think that >50g of carbs combined with fat covers almost everyone in the western world.

We could see a rise in metabolic disorders and heart disease at any moment!

According to some research I saw that initially used rats and was then repeated on a group of humans, a 50:50 ratio of fat and carbs in a food / meal is the most addictive and damaging combination (for both weight and lipids) Apparently cheesecake has an almost exact 50:50 fat:carb ratio

Boo1979 said:

According to some research I saw that used rats and was repeated on a group of humans, a 50:50 ratio of fat and carbs in a food / meal is the most addictive and damaging combination. Apparently cheesecake has 50:50 fat:carb ratio

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I LOVE cheesecake!

Oh...

AdamJames said:

I'd think that >50g of carbs combined with fat covers almost everyone in the western world.

We could see a rise in metabolic disorders and heart disease at any moment!

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we already are!