how low is low carb?

Hi

I checked with Dr Jay first and he was ok with me posting his food diary. It is of course a snapshot but the results were as follows it would of course be more accurate to do a weighed 7 day intake but it gives a guide.
Protein - 142g ( 29.6%)
CHO 29g ( 5.5%)
Fat 139g ( 64.9%)

I have also noted that Calcium was a third of the DRV and Vitamin C 30mg/day.
I have expressed my concern about the micro nutrients but Jay has assured me he takes a multivitamin.
However the fat intake was boosted by rather a lot of mayonnaise - 60g of fat worth!.

So without the mayo the his fat intake would be below the the recommended. This has always been an unanswered question for me how do low carbers get their fat - oil, coconut oil etc but how tolerable is it . I would love to hear your responses!

Ally

ally5555 said:

"how do low carbers get their fat - oil, coconut oil etc but how tolerable is it . I would love to hear your responses!"
Ally

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Same as Dr Jay - I eating previously forbidden Mayonaise with my lunch in large quanities, it's one of the best things about low-carbing. Other significant source is in all the meat that I eat (I eat half a chicken every weekday lunchtime), and some other meat almost every evening. I don't really like cheese, but I snack on it because it's relatively low in carbs.

I never eat any "reduced fat" product (milk, cream, yoghurt), prefering the full fat varieties, when I eat them (not that often, because of the carbohydrate content).

Happy to eat the occaisional fried breakfast when I have the time too.

Same here, mayonnaise, home made is best for me, I eat eggs benedict for breakfast, sauce hollandaise with fish, add cold pressed oils to salad dressings, toss steamed vegetables in butter or sautee in butter.
People are constantly wondering whether I have high blood fats, suffer indigestion, but the answer is no. People are surprised my skin looks so smooth, blemish free. Probably due to eating low carb high phat, plenty of activity, fresh air, relaxation.
Dietition almost had a heart attack when she saw my food diary, conceded that I appear to get all nutrients. Not seen her since though, maybe she wants to stay away from me as far as possible?!

This is still not answering the question - so what you are saying then is mayo is the answer to low carbing and fat intake because without it the fat intakes would be below the rec!
It is not very paleo either and unless freshly made could be full of additives!!!
I love mayo but there is a point where it drowns out the flavour of food.
The current recommendations on protein foods is 2-3 /day anyway so it is not very different!

Ally

ally5555 said:

This is still not answering the question - so what you are saying then is mayo is the answer to low carbing and fat intake because without it the fat intakes would be below the rec!

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No one is saying that mayonaise is a panacea. We're saying we like eating Mayonaise and it's a significant source of fat.

Why are you arbritrarily deleting mayonaise from his diet? He said that is what he eats (as did I and WhitbyJet), so what is the point of considering his diet without it?

I also thought that most of the RDA stuff had been debunked (it certainly has been for Carbohydrates). Comparing someone's intake against the RDA that is listed on every food label is hardly rocket science. As a dietician don't you have any more insight than that?

ally5555 said:

It is not very paleo either and unless freshly made could be full of additives!!!

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Yes. Who cares? Is Dr Jay a big Paleo man?

ally5555 said:

I love mayo but there is a point where it drowns out the flavour of food.

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Then I humbly suggest that you don't eat it.

ally5555 said:

Protein - 142g ( 29.6%)
CHO 29g ( 5.5%)
Fat 139g ( 64.9%)

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Ally, out of interest, what percentages of the RDA values do you consume in your own (non-diabetic) diet?

I eat around 30-35% fat . 15% protein and the remainder as CHO - not sugar but mainly wholegrain bread, baby potatoes with skin , pasta occ and brown rice, pulses and fruit. I would struggle to eat more fat as I actually do not like fat very much - but I use butter, olive oil , mayo.

I am slim , have no health issues along with the rest of my family.
The key for me is no sugar and occ treats. I must be the only woman on earth that hates chocolate!

I use around 40% CHO for my pts and get great results with many. Some take no notice of anything any one tells them - but that is the same with many health issues such as smoking.

I will help pts if they want to low carb but they will get the benefit of me looking at their diet in detail - not just the carbs etc.
I am suprised at the quantities of mayo people seem to eat - it spoils food.
I mentioned the paleo thing as so many seem to be in to that as well!

Ally

I get my fat from mayonnaise, olive oil, sometimes grapeseed oil (stir-frys), and other flavoured oils as dressings, butter, sometimes lard for cooking, cheese, the fat that comes with the meat I eat, oily fish, some nuts (not many), full-fat yoghurt sometimes, and a bit of chocolate. And, in the summer, the cream I use on my strawberries etc! I use semi-skimmed milk in my coffee 'cos I find full cream a bit claggy (a word that relates to mouth-feel).

Palaeo (I use the English spelling) is an interesting word. I use it to mean 'unprocessed' rather than palaeolithic in the strictest sense, as you can't eat most oils if you're going to be pedantic - there's no evidence for processing olives, for instance, until the Neolithic.

I really don't know how much fat I eat. I just don't avoid it. I feel well, don't get spots, have acceptable cholesterol.

Today's food - 2-egg omelette cooked in butter; 2 slices of Tesco multi-grain, spread with butter and mayo, made into a sandwich with plenty of boiled ham and lettuce. I haven't decided what my evening meal will be yet; possibly fried chicken with green beans, cauli and broccoli. There'll be plenty of oil and butter in there somewhere!

Just now I'm going to eat an enormous white nectarine which is so juicy I will need a couple of sheets of kitchen roll to catch the dribbles - yum! Then maybe some strawberries and cream later.

I told you all I was eating more carbs at the moment - the bread was mostly to eat up the ham (I've had 2 days with packed lunches, Sun/Mon) - and I just cannot resist summer fruits! My BGs are okay, though - 4.9 before the sandwich, 5.0 2 hours after. I'm probably not losing weight at the moment, though.

Viv 8)

Dear all,

Your views all make interesting readings. I do think you are the best judge of your own mind and body. Trying to work strictly within parameters all the time is just too restricting. I'm not saying be ignorant, more to try and incorporate your life around being diabetic (whether 1 or 2). Diabetes runs in my Family. My Uncle & Brother are type 1 an my Dad type 2. I have 1 and have had it for 26 years. I should be like a watering can all the injections I do but hey ho!

Firstly- my personal eating/nutritional habits are as follows: A bowl of porridge with full fat goats milk, prunes, cinnamon and or maybe some cashew nuts on top. Snack is bannana with yogurt, rice cakes with hummus etc. Lunch is tuna steak with brown rice, hummus or cous cous + salad or veg. Evening meal is usually chicken/fish or Turkey + Brown rice + veg or salad. I do not weight ANY of my food but this is from trial and error over MANY years however; if you are newly diagnosed I would strongly recommend weighing and giving your insulin to the amount of food and NOT trying to eat set amount of carbs and dosing purely on that. My reason for this is: One size does not fit all! All of our lives are different and what is god for one certainly isn't good for another. Please let me re-iterate (before the backlash!) that this is how I control my levels. To be honest, anything under 10 sugar readings is marvelous! You are not spilling into your blood stream and maintaining good control. I am a qualified Personal Trainer in in the South West and also qualified in Nutrition. Ladies need around 2000 calories and men 2500 (approximately). There are specific calculations to work exact calories, just look online.

I do not agree with any way of eating that omits or restricts severely any food group. This just isn't healthy and this kind of eating can lead to a distorted perception of what food is and does leading to (in severe cases) eating disorders. The Atkin diet may have "worked" for certain people but Diabetics YOU MUST AVOID! The way this works is: By not feeding you muscles carbohydrates, you are essentially getting your body to break down it's fat and muscle stores for food. I've just found something on the web that actually recommends diabetes to follow it- DO NOT- YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR HEALTH AT RISK! When this happens, it is called Keto Acidosis which is that burning sensation you get in your throat and a also when that stick you wee on turns a funny colour. Keto Acidosis (known as ketones) destroys internal organs. Prolonged high sugar levels (ketones) can lead to death. If your breath smells like pear drops, this is a sign.

For anyone wanting to lose/gain weight etc- I am happy to help as am fully qualified. For the Lady that commented about whether she's feeding her Daughter too much: I very much doubt it. Just remember for Diabetics- we need to eat foods from the lower end of the www. glycemicindex. com so things such as porridge, brown rice, brown wholewheat pasta and bread. Things to avoid a high peak in sugar levels= anything white and processed like white bread, white rice etc.

Hope this clears things up a little?

LASPORTSTHERAPY said:

The Atkin diet may have "worked" for certain people but Diabetics YOU MUST AVOID! The way this works is: By not feeding you muscles carbohydrates, you are essentially getting your body to break down it's fat and muscle stores for food. I've just found something on the web that actually recommends diabetes to follow it- DO NOT- YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR HEALTH AT RISK! When this happens, it is called Keto Acidosis which is that burning sensation you get in your throat and a also when that stick you wee on turns a funny colour. Keto Acidosis (known as ketones) destroys internal organs. Prolonged high sugar levels (ketones) can lead to death. If your breath smells like pear drops, this is a sign.

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Welcome !

You are making a common mistake of confusing Ketosis with Ketoacidosis. The latter is a type of out of control Ketosis that can (mainly) happen to T1 with significantly depleted insulin.

There are lots of Diabetics on this forum that successfully control their Diabetes using low-carbohydrate "Atkins-style" diets, and I can confirm that ketosis doesn't do any of us any harm. Ketoacidosis is a concern for all of us - but in practice the two things are completely separate (you can just as easily get Ketoacidosis on a high carb diet).

The muscle breakdown isn't a problem if you are consuming enough protein in your diet.

ally5555 said:

Protein - 142g ( 29.6%)
CHO 29g ( 5.5%)
Fat 139g ( 64.9%)

I have also noted that Calcium was a third of the DRV and Vitamin C 30mg/day.
I have expressed my concern about the micro nutrients but Jay has assured me he takes a multivitamin.
However the fat intake was boosted by rather a lot of mayonnaise - 60g of fat worth!.

So without the mayo the his fat intake would be below the the recommended. This has always been an unanswered question for me how do low carbers get their fat - oil, coconut oil etc but how tolerable is it . I would love to hear your responses!

Click to expand...

Ally,

So, in conclusion, what you are saying is that, with Mayo and Multivitims, Dr Jay's diet is a good one.

That is very reassuring to hear!

Stephen

Hi,

Low carb is not no-carb which the Akins is. I'm glad low carb works for you. I stand by what I say regarding the Atkins Diet though- DIABETICS DO NOT TOUCH!

This has always been an unanswered question for me how do low carbers get their fat - oil, coconut oil etc but how tolerable is it . I would love to hear your responses!

Click to expand...

50-60g nuts - 30g fat
1 avacado (every other day) - 8g fat
200g greek yoghurt - 20g fat
2 eggs - 9g fat
40g cheese - 10g fat
Extra virgin olive oil - 1 tbsp 15g (although probably 5g gets left on the plate)
Milk - 5g fat
Meat - 30g fat (as an average)

I make this 127g fat per day -with 48-53g coming from nuts, avacado and extra virgin olive oil.

The rest of the diet is made up with fruits (kiwi fruit a favourite) and plenty of vegetables.

I see I'm fairly close to doubling the GDA for fat of 70g per day.

LASPORTSTHERAPY said:

Low carb is not no-carb which the Akins is. I'm glad low carb works for you. I stand by what I say regarding the Atkins Diet though- DIABETICS DO NOT TOUCH!

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Atkins is not "no-carb".

On the induction phase Atkins is 20g Net Carbs (Carbohydrates less fibre and some sugar alcohols). As you go through the different phases, then you are allowed to add more carbohydrates until you get to a comfortable level.

Many of us are on much stricter diets than that:
Dr Richard Bernstein recommends 30g Carbs (proper carbs). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_K._Bernstein). I ususally try to eat less than 40g.

Some Diabetics can manage much more carbohydrate in their diet (we are all different), but most of us restrict our carbs to some extent.

alaska said:

50-60g nuts - 30g fat

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What sort of nuts are you eating Alaska? according to my nutritional information:

Per 100g
Macadamia (the low carbers favourite, so I was always told) 13.82g
Almonds (the highest I could find) 21.67g
Brazils (a Measly) 12.27g
Wallnuts 13.71g

Mainly 'mixed nuts' (unsalted) -apparently 53g fat per 100g -if we believe the packet (8.4g carbs per 100g)

A packet of cashew nuts I have to hand claims to be 48g fat per 100g (18.1g carbs per 100g)

Hi, LAsportstherapy, and welcome.

You said:

Low carb is not no-carb which the Akins is. I'm glad low carb works for you. I stand by what I say regarding the Atkins Diet though- DIABETICS DO NOT TOUCH!

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As Borofergie has already said, Atkins is emphatically NOT "no-carb". As a Type 2 I am following it successfully, though on approx 50g to 60g of carb per day (the Ongoing Weight Loss phase) at the moment because I have a weakness for summer fruit . I shall be back to my more usual level of 25g - 35g per day once the summer is over.

In my pre-diabetic days I followed Induction successfully for 18 months, under medical supervision, seldom going over 40g of carb daily. I have never been healthier in my entire life! though in those days I had no mobility problems, so was able to exercise more than I can now.

You might like to look at Vernon & Eberstein's fairly recent book Atkins diabetes revolution which is very interesting.

I'm afraid that on your diet I doubt if I would be able to maintain my present control of fasting blood glucose levels between 4.5 and 5.5 mmol/l (about 80 to 100 mg/dl in US figures). However, we are all different! which is something of a litany on this site! I'm glad your way works for you. Diet and lifestyle is completely a matter of choice; we can only give examples of our own choices, for other people to make up their own minds about.

No-one dictates to anyone else, on here. At least, we try not to! :lol: It's a discussion forum.

Viv 8)

Hi Stephen

I am not saying it is ideal at all in fact also forgot the fact that the Kcals were around 1800/day and the fibre was extremely low.

I am not a big supplement fan but Dr Jay needs to take them as overall his diet is deficient.

Alaska - 70g -75 g is the average for a woman some may need more if their have higher energy needs - for men it is 90-95g.

ally5555 said:

I am not saying it is ideal at all in fact also forgot the fact that the Kcals were around 1800/day and the fibre was extremely low.

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What's wrong with 1800Kcal a day?

well that is quite low for a man who is not overwt - I consume around 2000 calories a day!