how much danger do carbohydrates do to diabetics

Here you are Sid, have a read of this and you will see that carbs are needed for brain function, this article is not anti any chosen diet.

The Human Brain.

http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html

Whilst the article contains a list of GI foods, it is essential to test and the more balanced your meal is then the better it is for the steady supply of blood glucose as opposed to highs and lows.

A low GI cereal still needs to be balanced out with fruit and/or seeds and nuts to lower the overall G.I. You also have to use portion control with the carbohydrate content of a meal because if you eat a large portion of any carbohydrate then you will experience weight gain and possible fluctuation in blood sugars, unless you are very lucky.

Er, so it does need carbs then

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I think theres a bit of a muddle between carbs and glucose and whether we're talking about survival or (controversially) more optimal function.

Normally glucose derived from cabohydrates in the diet fuels the brain. This is fast and efficient so for example if blood glucose is low and one has symptoms of muddled thinking a couple of dextrose tablets can fix it very quickly.

As Catherines link shows there are many studies on the short term effect of carb intake on cognitive function and mood. For example there is a lot of work on the effects of carbohydrates on serotonin/tryptophan pathways which play a big part in mood, energy levels and attention.(some drugs like Prozac work by increasing serotonin uptake.) R and J Wurtman have published a number of papers linking low serotonin to low dietary carbohydrate intake. There have also been several medium term studies using different diets. (huge topic in itself)

If glucose from carbs in the diet is available the brain will use it preferentially . When glucose from carbs is not available as in starvation or on a very low or even 'zero' carb diet there is a survival mechanism. Fatty acids can be broken down for energy and during this process ketones are produced. The brain is able to use ketones for part of its function , however it still requires some glucose, this can be synthesised in the liver and kidneys from protein.
The process is regulated by insulin levels. Ketones increase very quickly in the absence of sufficient insulin , high levels of ketones cause the blood to become more acidic and this for people with type 1 and occasionally with type 2 can lead to DKA. (children , pregnant and lactaing women can also see ketones rise very quickly).
The controversy is not so much about the mechanics, rather the advisability of the diet long term.
The ketogenic diet is used therapeutically to attempt to cause changes in the brain and prevent seizures in epilepsy. They don't really know how it works but it sometimes does. This account sumarises positves and negatives but also points out that it is not a nutritionally complete diet and that there are side effects.
http://www.childrensmemorial.org/depts/ ... genic.aspx

Carbs in the starchy form are not needed for exercise. I present myself as evidence. Have today run for 40 mins at start of day. My fuel was an americano coffee with slug of double cream and a chunk of cheese. Back from run shower pick up bike and OH and we're back from 5 hours cycling. Stopped for breakfast after an hour. My food was 2 eggs, 3 bacon pile of mushrooms. So no carbs as such just what will be released from dairy etc.
It works for me. Just because someone has passion about what works for them doesn't make them wrong or mad or a target for ridicule.

As an insulin dependent diabetic, carbohydrate is my fuel.
If I even tried working out without I'd have to hope someone found me by the roadside and got me to the ER on time.
Even non diabetics require carbohydrates for energy for working out. Ask any sports nutritionist and they will tell you that carbohydrate is the single most important source of energy. It provides the energy that fuels muscle contractions. Glycogen supplies the energy your body needs for exercise: you could argue that fat will supply energy but glycogen is needed for the breakdown of fat into something that the muscles can use.

Also without suffient carb intake your body will break down protein to make glucose which puts stress on our kidneys with the work involved to get rid of the byproducts of the protein breakdown. Not to mention limiting the ability to maintain muscle and other tissues..

And: carbohydrate is what fuels our CNS and brain.

Justfoundout

As you are T2 diabetic diet only, means that putting yourself up for edvidence only works for you and maybe other T2 diet only diabetics...

I'm T1 injecting insulin, so I need to balance my insulin to enable my body to utilize the glygogen into fuel, this can be difficult as a slight miscalculation could have a big impact, I've also got to ensure that what every I am burning off is being replemshied, otherwise this causes a knock on effect later... I may well eat a nice fried no carb breakfast and this may well provid my engery through the morning, but because I've taking out more of the store from my liver than being replemished, slowly over the afternoon it fails to keep up sending me into a hypo, and then I'm in urgent need of fast acting carbs.. Even with using a pump, there's still maybe insulin in my system using the glucose quicker than I can replemish...

Two little interesting facts..

Only 40% of carbs cosummed has a direct impact on your blood glucose, the other 60% goes straight to the liver to be processed either in the liver store, or as fat around the body!

As for the Inuits, well sadly within this group there is a very high suicide rate larger than most other groups!

But at the end of the day, a wisely eaten carb isn't evil, it only becomes evil if eaten unwisley. if you want to eat highly densed, over processed carbs all day expect trouble.. But if you use some wisdom, and eat good carbs at a level that match's your needs then you should be fine..

You can't seriously compare a bunch of inuits to people with diabetes. Remember for a lot of us this was caused by auto-immune disorder. Not because we had bad diets or lifestyles.

Sadly, the Inuit population having a high suicide rate is tragic. This appears to have been brought about by social factors in the transition from Arctic living to Western living. As I said earlier it is their imposed lifestyle that is so different from the Arctic that is causing their problems. It is interesting to note that alcoholism is also rampant. Where the consumption of carbs comes into this I am not sure, there does not seem to be any relevance.

Angeldust said:

You can't seriously compare a bunch of Inuits to people with diabetes. Remember for a lot of us this was caused by auto-immune disorder. Not because we had bad diets or lifestyles.

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Whilst all Type 1's do not have a choice about diabetes, there are also a lot of Type 2's who have had it thrust upon them. There are many and varied reasons why some people get Type 2, including previous medication, stress, genetics, there is a long list of variables and it is not all to do with lifestyle and diet. although the media with their stereotypical ideas would have us believe this.

The topic seems to have been lost and we are getting bogged down here and what comes across to me is that nobody should be told to what degree carbohydrate consumption is safe as we are all different in our reactions to them. There are no hard and fast rules. Eat to your meter,enjoy your chosen diet, advise others if you feel you can help and leave the highly charged and emotive subject of carbs alone if you feel the need to enforce your chosen method on everybody else.

You can't seriously compare a bunch of inuits to people with diabetes.

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Its amazing how this marginal group with very little in common with most of us comes up in these discussions, :wink:
Sheri Cohlberg a person who has done large amounts of research into diabetes and exercise and works with both T 1s and 2s puts the exercise/carb debate in perspective She is by no means against reducing carbs, particularly on rest days. She also points out that no-one needs to eat huge amounts of pasta before a 5k run .
but carbs are the preferential fuel,

Carbs are like using a higher-octane fuel, resulting in more miles to the gallon. If you want to exercise intensely and you eat a low-carb diet, you will simply not be able to perform at the highest level possible

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As Jopar pointed out, glycogen levels need topping up and this takes time even when eating adequate carbs so on a low carb diet

, it will inevitably take longer than expected, and you may be trying to do your next workout with less muscle and liver glycogen available. Being glycogen depleted also does not necessarily improve your fat use because, as we say in the exercise physiology world, "fat burns in a carbohydrate flame." If your muscles are glycogen depleted, your fat use will be somewhat compromised, and you'll have to slow down your pace for that reason as well

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People ( whe's specifically referring toT2s here) who exercise regularly and deplete these stores will in any case be able to handle carbs better. She also points out that it may only need 15-30g carb in 30min to 2hour post exercise period
( I'add that regular exercise reduces insulin resistance: ,it can be as important as diet as part of the treatment... that's why the diabetes dept at my hospital has exercise bikes and daily exercise is included in all courses, yet often it's only mentioned as an afterthought )
Her conclusion however does support people who feel able to do some moderate exercise on a low carb diet.

I have to reiterate, though, that your body cannot process fat as quickly or as efficiently as carbs during exercise (the lower number of calories derived from oxygen per gram of fat is a non-disputable fact), so you will never reach your peak performance for high-intensity exercise relying on fats alone. If you can still do less intense exercise as well as you'd like to while using more fats than carbs and optimal performance is not your concern, then a low-carb lifestyle and moderate exercise may work just fine for you.

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http://www.shericolberg.com/exercise-columns.asp

I second this. Why would we want someone who is a vindictive bully and who posts such vile things on another forum as part of the community here? You cannot play the innocent here and then go off and pour out your hatred of this forum on another forum.
Perhaps the forum rules need changing so as this cannot happen. These back stabbers need to be brought in line and challenged.

dinosaur said:

what are the dangers of carbohydrates .

i understand i am not allowed sugar but i know nothing about carbohydrates bar reading everyone seems to count them or be on a non carbohydrate diet,

since i have looked into my diet and started counting how many carbohydrates i am eating i am obviously eating way way to many , but what wil it do to me in relation to my diabetes ?
will it give me all the complications of diabetes that normal sugar does ?
ie eyes/feet/stroke
etc etc

i never test except on my HB1ac and these are always 5.2 to 5.4 , so although these carbs might be bad they do not seem to effect my blood sugars in the long term albeit i am guessing they spike when i eat them ?

because my HB1AC`S are always fine i just assummed that what i eat is fine , i am guessing this is not the case.

i have adult onset type 2

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Let's get this topic back on track. Remember debate the topic not the member.

Mod 2

[quoteby graham64 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:34 am

jopar wrote:

Two little interesting facts..

Only 40% of carbs cosummed has a direct impact on your blood glucose, the other 60% goes straight to the liver to be processed either in the liver store, or as fat around the body!

All the more reason to watch the carbs ][/quote]

Yes I would agree that we do need to watch the carbs, but whether we need to avoid them totally is a different matter...

However, every diabetic, does need to understand how individual carb comsumed effects their body, what diffence any medication makes to how they respond, they need to understand the limitation of their medication...

I wouldn't unless I was hypo, dream eating a candy floss, as I know how this would react and impact on my blood sugar levels, I also understand the limitations of my insulin so know that I couldn't match a dose to suitably control my BG as the candy floss adsorbed into my system...

But going back to this little fact, it shows how carbs more so the highly refined processed carbs, actually cause individual to put on weight.. But it also needs to be remembered that this is just part of the story, as fat, protien also can lead to weight gain if the calorie count exceeds the calorie count an individual actually require!

So the answer to the orginal question must be..

Carbs are only dangerous to the diabetic, if the diabetic chooses to continue to eat carbs which surpasses the quanities, types etc that their body requires or can handle..

Seems that the carb wars have stated again. I will make just one small observation if I may?

This site champions the idea that all diabetics are different and that any diet/means of control is fine as long as it works for you then great

The other site now mentioned in this thread seems to have the blinkered view that only their way is good and all others ways are evil, bad, toxic etc etc.

Carry on giving your bias free advice Sue and Ken, I'm sure 99.9% of the members here thank you for your selfless efforts to help others, many of whom are newly diagnosed and feeling very confused.



Is it OK if I eat a biscuit?

Hear Hear
CAROL

Mr or Mrs Fox
Yes I have read it. Seems more amusing to me than vindictive. Made me smile.
Can we get back on topic?

The sender of that evil email should be thoroughly ashamed of them self. Speaking as someone who lost their mother to cancer I can not comprehend the mind behind that email.

Absolutely evil or childishly naive as regards cancer, truly terrible...

I've re written this post about ten times now, as I am lost for words to describe my disgust.

No jokes from me in this post :cry:

It is how I see your response to LCD forum. An opinion of mine. I am not anti you but anti your views.

Troublemakerts win.........no way !

That's just what Sue and I are trying to prevent. Unfortunately a few home truths need to be aired, then maybe we can get back to normal.

Ken & Sue

Ken,
I am very, very glad you disappointed the sender of that reprehensible e mail, and continue to do so for a very long time to come. I won't say any more than that about it or I will end up modded for bad language.
I knew things had been bad but I am deeply shocked by it.

This is overdue, too many things have been referred to elsewhere or referred to in veiled tones hidden away. As I said on the moderation thread, people who make adverse comments, grievances or ridicule people here from the supposed safety of another forum should be asked either to make those comments here (so that they can be evaluated) or to be banned from using this forum.
To Justfoundout, unless I am mistaken, and if I am I apologise you are also a member of the lcdf.(there is certainly someone with a similar profile) However, you were only diagnosed this year and as this person on the LCF says, 'missed the fun'. You may not have a larger view of events.
First have a look around that forum and find the number of mocking comments about this one.
Then I would ask you to ask David just why he refused to allow any link between his forum and a blog Carbo Soze. (you can search for references to it on that forum). Then perhaps you might ask its writer to show it to you. He isn't so difficult to identify. I don't know if he continues it but whilst it was public it he mocked and ridiculed several members of this forum and it's administrator causing anxiety and distress.
Perhaps you will then understand why we are now very wary of forum contributions by some members of that forum.