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How quickly should my HBA1C go down?

Discussion in 'Prediabetes' started by STARRYNIGHTS, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    Yes, it's really interesting isn't it!

    There doesn't seem to be many WFPB no oil people on here, I guess because the site pushes Keto, so it draws people following that, so the others go elsewhere.
    I personally know a number of people that have reversed their diabetes, normalised their lipids and seen the results of their arteries clearing on scans after following the recommendations of Dr McDougall and Dr Esselstyn etc, and are on a number of groups with lots in the same boat.
    With everyones health, its their own body that will suffer the consequences, so they have to do the research for themself and make the choice.
    Dr McDougall says that the high fat plant based foods like seeds, nuts and avocados should not be eaten if you are in a diseased state, such as elevated lipids, blood sugars etc, until your numbers normalise, and then, the general ratio should be approx 80% carbs/ 10% fat or less/ 10% protein.

    Before I started to follow Dr McDougalls recommendations (before I got the PD diagnosis) I would put marg on my dinner, and ate way too much fat!
    It's yummy! :)
    I always ate healthy food, but used too much olive oil etc, and then I would have the naughty food aside from my meals as I like baking and cooking. I also ate way too much chocolate.
    I have read the studies about Dr Walter Kempner and the White rice diet, that was done back in the 30's.
    He took very sick, obese people with T2 and fed them a diet of white rice, fruit, fruit juice and table sugar to make up the additional calories, and no fat whatsoever. Because of their kidney disease, they couldn't eat potasssium rich foods at all.
    At the end of the 2 years, they were all slim and healthy, despite eating those foods they tell us are bad for diabetics.

    Ofcourse that is not an ideal diet at all, but i don't believe they know everything about how our bodies work yet, and most doctors just manage symptoms, and prescribe medicine, not actually cure people.

    I am very interested in knowing more about how things work and reading about others experiences too.
    My husband has crohn's disease and knows he has to be his own doctor, as the specialists don't have all the answers (they just make him work with their prescriptions they've pushed on him from time to time).

    So in a nutshell, it's is interesting reading about how things work- even if different from what you are doing.
    I have elevated cholesterol at 5.9 so I am looking forwards to getting that down now too, since I am eating better.
    My husband managed to drop his to 2.8 following McDougall's recommendations and his blood pressure is good, whereas his mum and dad have high cholesterol and blood pressure, as does now his brother who is 46 and was a professional athlete all his life!
    I have known my cholesterol was elevated for the last few years since i first had it tested ,but wasn't willing to stop eating my chocolate etc, until i got the pre-diabetes diagnosis too and realised it was time to stop! :/
    Because I have never been overweight really, I thought I was getting away with it!

    ^ months post partum, I still have 11 kg to lose to get back down to 50 kg, which is my typical adult weight for most of my life, and my fat is ALL around my middle, - the worst place to be, so i assume i may have a bit of fat in the liver to clean out as well?
    It will be interesting to see what happens re my levels once all the belly fat has gone?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I can't remember how long I have been visiting/attending this site - maybe three years actively? And I can honestly say I never had keto "pushed" on me. In fact, I found out I had crossed the line into keto from LCHF almost accidentally!

    Various degrees of low-carbing just happen to be a commonly accepted baseline treatment for diabetics. Hence it being mentioned in here, rather a lot. I think how you do it, or in fact, how you choose to treat diabetes generally (even without food) is very nicely accepted here, making sure you don't wander off into keto or LCHF threads I would imagine! But that is true on all forums for interested parties, I would think. I have merely passed 'treating with insulin' sub-fora with respect and lack of engagement, for instance. As one would expect?

    So broadbased is the clientele of this site, I would say, is you mentioned that rice diet for diabetes all of 11 hours ago, and I am the first person to notice it, and there you go - fully accepting! Sort of. :).
     
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  3. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    I have seen people in different forums get pushy with "their way" (whatever that is ) before, but as i mentioned, when it comes to people's own bodies, that they bear the consequences for, they need to work out for themself what line they're happy betting on, as only they will wear the results of it!

    My husband has crohn's disease, as does my sister and they both manage theirs completely differently.
    I tend to like to see all approaches as i think there is a measure of "Brilliance and ********" in everything :) (stole that quote from a teacher!) and unless you are open minded enough to explore all options, you often miss the gold!

    I am wondering about intermittent fasting etc.
    I have read a bit about it, and watched my meter some days and am wondering if it is a good idea for me, or not, as I have noticed on some the when I don't eat much/ go a long time btwn meals, my blood sugar rises?

    Today, 2 hrs ppd, my blood sugar was 6.2, and then an hour later I felt like it was dropping and i felt yuck, so I tested it thinking it had dropped, and it was 7.1!
    I hadn't had much to eat all day...I am wondering because it seems more stable when i have regular meal patterns, vs not alot/ widely spaced meals?

    Why does it go up on its own sometimes when you don't eat, and it's not the morning time?

    Edited by moderator for language
     
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    #23 STARRYNIGHTS, May 8, 2018 at 11:52 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2018
  4. eggs11

    eggs11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Even if it's not a morning fasting reading, your liver will dump sugar into the blood if it thinks you need it. The other option for a ppd reading is that you ate something with 'slow release' carbs or lot of protein (or lots of fat - but I'm guessing there was no fat in your meal) that took a long time to peak.
     
    #24 eggs11, May 8, 2018 at 11:59 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2018
  5. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    I had a salad sandwich on wholemeal bread with 1/4 avocodo and a sweet potato and red pepper burger (about 6 gm fat) , so not a huge meal. Normally I notice a higher reading at one hour, and then lower at 2.
    I was reading this by Jason Fung today about the fatty liver etc, ( https://idmprogram.com/fatty-pancreas-t2d-9/ ) and it dumping.
    When i got my blood tests done back in Dec my ALT on my liver panel came back at 35! (top of the range was 33)
    I was concerned about that, but being 2 mth post partum the doctors always fob stuff off on pregnancy!
    3 mths later, when i had the bloods done, the hba1c came back at 35, and the serum ALT at 23 which is in range and an improvement, but i still think from reading i have done, I would want my ALT alot lower than that.
    I am wondering if i do have some stored liver fat?
    I had an ultrasound of it back in 2010 when a stupid osteopath told me I had an enlarged liver and tried to peddle me some very expensive supplements, so I refused, went to a doctor to tell him and see what was going on and he said it felt normal and sent me for an ultrasound and it was fine! No fatty liver, but obviously that was a while back now and I have had 3 more babies since, and have been consistently a stone heavier pre pregnancy (57 kg) than I was for the first two babies, <50 kg so it is entirely possible.

    Have you tried fasting?
    I normally stop eating around 10pm and don't eat again until at least 9-10 am anyway....Is that kind of IF of sorts?
     
  6. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Fasting for me has been a part of my treatment for some years now. I have 'time out' from keto for celebrations involving some degree of high carb food with wheat products, and I deal with the blood glucose/insulin/waist size/fat storage repercussions of that by having four or five day fasts afterwards. And I have tried all manner of intermittent fasts to get out of the 'intermediate hyperglycemic' blood glucose range in attempt to get better. I have not been able to do that, but I believe periodic fasting allows me to maintain the blood glucose level I am in now, and not get worse, at least. Only time will tell.
     
  7. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    I would be interested in even trying a 36 hr fast, but people have said it is no ok if you're breastfeeding!
    I don't see why it wouldn't be seeing as i have 11 kg of stored fat on my belly to sustain me?
    I am tempted to try it just for a day.
    Have you managed to work out what variables will make your fasting blood sugar go up sometimes?
    Mine was up in the 6's for two days, but back to the 5's for the last two days, and hopefully going back to the 4's again soon,
    I can't think of anything i did that was that different to cause it, but seeing the higher levels made me interested in fasting, at least for a short time.
    Then there is the school of thought that a good breakfast keeps the blood sugars stable, and studies that show people that skip breakfast have worse control of blood sugars long term, so not sure what to think about that yet?

    Sorry if I am asking too much!
    I just don't really have many people to hash these things out with!
     
  8. eggs11

    eggs11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Dr Jason Fung is great and he and also Professor Roy Taylor believe it is the visceral fat inside the liver and pancreas which causes type 2 diabetes. Dr Fung is massively into fasting, which I have dabbled with - for me the best results are when I stop eating at 8pm and then don't eat again until lunchtime. I do get a liver dump in the morning but it is no worse blood sugar wise than the rise I would get from eating breakfast, then after that my readings are much better for the rest of the day. Dr Fung has loads of great videos on youtube and you've found his blog - he explains things really well, so it's worth exploring his work a bit more!
     
  9. eggs11

    eggs11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ah sorry - missed the fact you are breastfeeding - no idea what the recommendations for fasting when doing that are, maybe do an ask in the fasting sub forum on here?
     
  10. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    Oh, another question re fasting readings- what number do you record?
    When i got up earlier, around 7.30 am my fasting level was higher than it is now, yet i still haven't eaten, so is it cheating to write down the lower number?
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Who would you be "cheating"? You have taken your bloods at two different times so record them both.. one (the first) is your fasting blood glucose the other is however many hours later it was.
     
  12. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    They are both while fasting though- I haven't eaten at all today yet.
    I normally record my first reading, but the last few days have seen them fluctuating like this.
    I usually just take a reading when ever i get up, not at a particular time, but wanted to keep an eye on the pattern.
    I am afraid it is my chocolate banana nicecream snack I have been making :/ (just cocoa and bananas blended in my icecream machine) so will cut that out again, and see what happens.
     
  13. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    As said, the first one is your true fasting level. The second is just a random and it is immaterial that you hadn't eaten anything. If you keep averages, then record them both with notes. The second one could have been influenced by your movements and activities in between the 2 tests, such as dressing, showering, rushing about after the family, whatever. Just using the second one because it is lower is cheating - but only cheating yourself. No-one else.
     
  14. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    Thanks for that- i have always recorded the first reading upon waking so that is what i'll keep doing.
    The 2nd one was just 1.30 hrs later, but I went back to bed at 7.30 and was just lying still, as my baby was feeding and went back to sleep, so apart from getting up to go to the loo, I didn't do anything in that time.

    I am perplexed why i have had 2 readings in the 6's now, when it has been an average of 4.9 for the last month???

    It just concerns me.
    My husband said to just cut out the banana nicecream, and go back to basics, but it sucks not being able to just eat something nice! :/ I have had a bit of avocado the last week or so too, but certainly not what i'd deem overdoing it!
    I have also been exercising more often, which i thought would make readings better.
    Boo hiss!
     
  15. eggs11

    eggs11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is where I find WFPB so fascinating - as what I've learned through my research into low carbing is that an excess of fructose that causes a fatty liver - so I limit fruit a lot in my own diet. Before diagnosis I was on Slimming World and eating a lot of fruit. I love avocado - again limited on Slimming World but I can embrace it again now. Sorry not much use in helping!
     
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Nothing wrong with avocado on a low carb diet..1.9g of carbs per 100g and lots of lovely fat!
     
  17. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    From the research I have read, it is not fructose from whole fruit though, but certainly from things like Fructose-glucose syrup, and table sugar etc (all of which I should not be eating either!)

    The sweets i was eating contain glucose-fructose syrup unfortunately!
    I just checked the label, and I have eaten about 10 bags of them in the last few weeks :/
    I know that is not good, and i have been good avoiding processed sugar in the last 5 mths but had a slip up :/
    I was just reading yesterday too that the liver will also convert in into excess cholesterol if you gorge on it, and my cholesterol is not something i never elevating further at the moment!

    I have committed myself to not eating processed sugar/sweets again, and sticking to my 2 pieces of fruit a day at the moment until my numbers go back to the same pattern, and not having the avocado etc for now, and then i will try more fruit and see what that does and let you know.

    I guess i got cocky when my numbers improved from eating well and thought the odd bag of sweets etc wouldn't make a difference surely!
    Human nature, alway trying to get away with stuff!

    But I am one that needs to see it for myself before I am convinced, so i guess my experiement of gorging on Adsa Dessert Cables was at least useful to know that eating that **** messes our bodies up!

    I am doing a 24 hr fast today I decided- its not going to hurt me breastfeeding as long as i keep my fluids up!
    I at at 10 pm last night, so will have a late dinner tonight so it won't be too hard as i have distractions today like hospital appts for kids etc...I may just be a little hangry!

    I will also take my BS every now and then out of interest.

    So far today, it was:
    6.0 at 7.30
    5.2 at 9 am
    and 4.9 at 11 am.
     
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  18. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    Avocado sure is good!!!
    I was just using a little in some Brown rice and veg summer rolls i was making...you really miss the avocado when it's not there!
     
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  19. eggs11

    eggs11 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's now my 'perfect' food @bulkbiker and keeps me going for ages!
     
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  20. STARRYNIGHTS

    STARRYNIGHTS Don't have diabetes · Active Member

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    Thank God you don't live in Aus then!

    You pay $5 for one avocado!!! :0
    At least in the Uk we can get 4 packs for £1.80 or so!
     
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