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How to stay young - BBC1 Type 2 Element
- Thread starter Mbaker
- Start Date
Yai
Well-Known Member
Wellyes, except they are recommending she eat foods such as Weetabix, jacket potatoes, tomatoes with pasta......... 800 calories per day, but no recognition of low carbohydrate.
ickihun
Master
I like the 'doctor in the house' result best, a few months back. He recommended low carb. Her hba1c improved and daughter was fighting prediabetes due to shift work and poor diet.
It hit a cord!
It hit a cord!
AliBarnesNcl
Newbie
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- 4
Hi all
Firstly I'm in Spain avoiding the TV so haven't seen what was shown tonight BUT...the only conversation I had with Tina around both weetabix and jacket potato was about how high GI they are and the carb content (we discussed Tina's large JP as having 19 teaspoons of sugar equivalent carbs), with suggested alternatives. Always the main focus is on carb portions though as GI has a limited additional effect. Please understand this was 6 hours of filming condensed into probably about 2 minutes airtime with no idea what would be shown!
The 'Newcastle' diet is both low calorie at about 720kcal/d in the original studies and 800-900 in the current study (DiRECT, outcomes to be announced 5 Dec). It is also by definition low carb because it is under 130g CHO per day from the shakes and veg. After extensive discussion about various dietary options Tina chose a food-based low calorie and low carb diet. On catch up she was eating around 1000kcal and 100g carbs per day. The main point to focus on if aiming to reverse diabetes is to lose enough weight to remove excess fat from liver and pancreas, for someone 100kg about 15kg weight loss is typically required. Low carb is one approach that can achieve this - if it suits you. Other weight loss diets suit other people and work just as well for remission as long as weight loss is sustainable long term. If you lose weight and still have T2DM (e.g. due to having diabetes for a long time) then certainly low carb can have benefits in managing glycaemia. With a true reversal you can eat carbs and your pancreas should be able to cope, having recovered its ability to respond to a carb load more effectively. There is a difference.
Both myself and Tina hoped that the main message that would come across is that you don't just have to take meds for type 2 there is so much power in diet and lifestyle change, and finding the right approach for you is key.
Best wishes to all
Ali Barnes
Firstly I'm in Spain avoiding the TV so haven't seen what was shown tonight BUT...the only conversation I had with Tina around both weetabix and jacket potato was about how high GI they are and the carb content (we discussed Tina's large JP as having 19 teaspoons of sugar equivalent carbs), with suggested alternatives. Always the main focus is on carb portions though as GI has a limited additional effect. Please understand this was 6 hours of filming condensed into probably about 2 minutes airtime with no idea what would be shown!
The 'Newcastle' diet is both low calorie at about 720kcal/d in the original studies and 800-900 in the current study (DiRECT, outcomes to be announced 5 Dec). It is also by definition low carb because it is under 130g CHO per day from the shakes and veg. After extensive discussion about various dietary options Tina chose a food-based low calorie and low carb diet. On catch up she was eating around 1000kcal and 100g carbs per day. The main point to focus on if aiming to reverse diabetes is to lose enough weight to remove excess fat from liver and pancreas, for someone 100kg about 15kg weight loss is typically required. Low carb is one approach that can achieve this - if it suits you. Other weight loss diets suit other people and work just as well for remission as long as weight loss is sustainable long term. If you lose weight and still have T2DM (e.g. due to having diabetes for a long time) then certainly low carb can have benefits in managing glycaemia. With a true reversal you can eat carbs and your pancreas should be able to cope, having recovered its ability to respond to a carb load more effectively. There is a difference.
Both myself and Tina hoped that the main message that would come across is that you don't just have to take meds for type 2 there is so much power in diet and lifestyle change, and finding the right approach for you is key.
Best wishes to all
Ali Barnes
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Mbaker
Well-Known Member
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- Type of diabetes
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My Notes from the program:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b096nb3x/how-to-stay-young-series-2-episode-3#
Tina is a 45 year old Type 2, worried about her skin ageing. She was diagnosed 2 years ago, admitting that everyday she has cakes, doughnuts and chocolate such as double deckers.
Before Newcastle Diet
Trigs before 1.3, Cholesterol Ratio 3.2, LDL 4.1, HDL 1.9, body fat 38.9, weight 60.9, BMI 26.7, A1c 43, body age 67,
Blood Pressure looked to be 120 / 80
After Newcastle Diet
Trigs before 1.4, Cholesterol Ratio 3.2, LDL 3.3, HDL 1.5, body fat 31.9, weight 54.2, BMI 23.8, A1c 39, body age 52,
Blood Pressure looked to be 100 / 60
Presenter Angela Rippon stated Type 2 diabetes is caused by too much fat in the pancreas.
Clinical Dietitian Alison Barns stated that reversal is possible by loosing circa 15 kgs, showed shredded wheat and jacket potatoes
The program placed her on 800 calories for 12 weeks which reduced her A1c from 43 to 39. I would say the diet was both low calorie and low carb as a recent thread about the Newcastle Diet showed a days meals as circa 80 grams of carbs - this falls into the less the 100 grams of "liberal" carbs. The meals on the show were spaghetti bolognese (looked like fresh pasta) and soup and a chicken and vegetable stir fry.
Other
Bella (68 years old)
Protocol: 5 Intervals of 6 seconds of HiiT static cycling
Trigs before 2.0, Cholesterol Ratio 3.5, LDL 3.3, HDL 1.3, body fat 50.3, weight 79.5, BMI 33.1, body age 77,
Blood Pressure looked to be 200 / 90
Trigs after 1.1, Cholesterol Ratio 3.1, LDL 3.3, HDL 1.6, body fat 48.3, weight 73.1, BMI 30.4, body age 72, Blood Pressure looked to be 140 / 90
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b096nb3x/how-to-stay-young-series-2-episode-3#
Tina is a 45 year old Type 2, worried about her skin ageing. She was diagnosed 2 years ago, admitting that everyday she has cakes, doughnuts and chocolate such as double deckers.
Before Newcastle Diet
Trigs before 1.3, Cholesterol Ratio 3.2, LDL 4.1, HDL 1.9, body fat 38.9, weight 60.9, BMI 26.7, A1c 43, body age 67,
Blood Pressure looked to be 120 / 80
After Newcastle Diet
Trigs before 1.4, Cholesterol Ratio 3.2, LDL 3.3, HDL 1.5, body fat 31.9, weight 54.2, BMI 23.8, A1c 39, body age 52,
Blood Pressure looked to be 100 / 60
Presenter Angela Rippon stated Type 2 diabetes is caused by too much fat in the pancreas.
Clinical Dietitian Alison Barns stated that reversal is possible by loosing circa 15 kgs, showed shredded wheat and jacket potatoes
The program placed her on 800 calories for 12 weeks which reduced her A1c from 43 to 39. I would say the diet was both low calorie and low carb as a recent thread about the Newcastle Diet showed a days meals as circa 80 grams of carbs - this falls into the less the 100 grams of "liberal" carbs. The meals on the show were spaghetti bolognese (looked like fresh pasta) and soup and a chicken and vegetable stir fry.
Other
Bella (68 years old)
Protocol: 5 Intervals of 6 seconds of HiiT static cycling
Trigs before 2.0, Cholesterol Ratio 3.5, LDL 3.3, HDL 1.3, body fat 50.3, weight 79.5, BMI 33.1, body age 77,
Blood Pressure looked to be 200 / 90
Trigs after 1.1, Cholesterol Ratio 3.1, LDL 3.3, HDL 1.6, body fat 48.3, weight 73.1, BMI 30.4, body age 72, Blood Pressure looked to be 140 / 90
AlexMagd
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 184
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
- Treatment type
- Tablets (oral)
Thanks for the notes Ali - interesting!
It was nice to see the ND on television, but I was a little concerned about the way they claimed she had cured her diabetes on the basis of a lowered HbA1C test - did she return to full pancreatic function, or 'true reversal' as you put it? Or did she just get her blood glucose levels under control? I'm afraid the "you *had* Type 2 Diabetes" bit made it very much seem like the former; I hope if she didn't experience true reversal that Tina won't now backslide back into T2D and poor glycaemic control
Mbaker
Well-Known Member
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- 4,339
- Location
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- Type of diabetes
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- Diet only
- Dislikes
- Available fast foods in Supermarkets
@alimac73 thank you for this clarification. It is great that recently the Newcastle Diet protocol has become media worthy. Many on this site are frustrated that low carb high fat is almost a swear word for a viable option. I noticed in the program that a portion where the Eatwell plate was on show when Tina was being talked to; I feel confident enough to say that for most Type 2's this is a disaster. If you were to research this site (the biggest I believe internationally) you will see that low carb high fat has amazing success.
In the absence of mainstream promotion and acceptance for LCHF to be used as a viable tool (along with Newcastle Diet), many consider conspiracy theories as to why LCHF does not get the recognition it deserves, particularly when biomarkers are excellent. Take for example my case a 134 HbA1c, down to 35/36, cholesterol 6.2 down to 3.98 with a ratio of 2.25 to 1 and Trigs of 0.5, blood pressure 127 / 78 last week down from over 140 / 80. I have middle of the road "reversal" numbers compared to many on the site who also do LCHF.
You have stated low carb can work above. It is not clear if you object to the high fat element especially in the light of the evidence (over whelming I would say) about saturated fat (I have full fat greek yogurt and nuts at least 6 days out of 7, cook in butter or coconut oil, eat at least a third of coconut a day, avocado often).
It would be great if you could help perhaps review some of the persons on this site and dietdoctor.com that are living great lives with minimal carbs. Many of us believe the Eatwell plate pushes blood sugar and insulin responses too high for diabetics and even for persons who are non-diabetic; it is surely clear that Ancel Keys has been discredited and that the diets his work have lead to mainly low fat and high carbs have helped create a tidal wave of insulin resistance, obesity and diabetes. Anything you could do to help would go a long way, as many are suffering needlessly, like my friend who has listened to mainstream advice when he was diagnosed with Type 2 such as eating bananas.
B
badcat
Guest
For me the problem with lchf is the hf part - i makes me nauseous and leads to weight gain
I do think the LC part is a no brainer for people with T2 diabetes and think much more structured scientific (not anecdotal n=1 type observations) research into the effects of carb restriction, possibly stratified by fat intake although that would need a v large sample size to have any scientific validity, on metabolic markers is much needed and long overdue
I do think the LC part is a no brainer for people with T2 diabetes and think much more structured scientific (not anecdotal n=1 type observations) research into the effects of carb restriction, possibly stratified by fat intake although that would need a v large sample size to have any scientific validity, on metabolic markers is much needed and long overdue
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Speedbird
Well-Known Member
Yes it's Dr Chatterjee. He has a Facebook page too Good to follow and innovative in his way of thinking. X
Mbaker
Well-Known Member
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- Location
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- Type of diabetes
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Just as there is a large range for low carb which appears to be from 10 g - 100 g or 20 g - 130 g I have seen; the same applies to high fat. I know some book authors talk about circa 70% high fat, the thought makes me feel queasy. I don't measure I just put either 2 or 3 dollops of say full fat Greek yogurt on my berries and nuts, I eat a lot of coconut about a third a day, so again I don't measure. Bottom line it is about not being hungry and replacing the energy value of carbs with fat.
B
badcat
Guest
Im similar to you - I use full fat butter, cheese, eggs, yogurt and cream as necessary and in preference to any low fat alternatives. Recipies in sites like diet doctor, tho very tasty, are, in my experience, way too big (about double the portion size I can handle), make me heave if I follow them ( even at half portion size) for more than a few days and cause weight gain
Similar to me although you may not believe it.. I don't chug down glasses of melted butter (well not very often) but the whole point of the ketogenic diet is fat to "satiety".. if you are feeling queasy that sounds like you have eaten more than to satiety? Eat less and save some for tomorrow. Its more about letting your body choose when it has had enough rather than forcing a meal down.
AlexMagd
Well-Known Member
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- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
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- Tablets (oral)
Was about to post exactly this. On a LCHF diet fat is the least of your concerns - at least when you're trying to lose weight. Your body has plenty of it to burn. It's not a goal to hit, otherwise you probably would gain weight.
My understanding is:
Carbs: a limit
Protein: a goal
Fat: until satiety
When you're trying to maintain and not lose weight on LCHF I'd imagine you'd need to make a conscious effort to eat more fat as your body won't have any more to use as fuel but as long as there's pounds to shift, no problem
Oldvatr
Expert
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It is quite possible to run an LC diet without going full frontal keto, in which case the carbs can be a bit higher, and you do not need to pile on the fat because there is nothing to compensate for. The bgl can still drop nicely but the weight may not, Also it is not tackling the midriff fat that is becoming associated with Insulin Resistance. But a bit of intermittent fasting could work alongside the LC diet.
Full keto is necessary to get rid of the adipose fat by fat burning, and this necessitates an ultra low carb diet with fat supplementation. This means dropping the carb intake to 40g or less a day.
B
badcat
Guest
I dont doubt what you say but I wouldnt see either of us in those terms necessarily following lchf as the term is often used on this site
The problem I have is the way people are 'told' that what they need to do is follow lchf and then told (incorrectly) that low carb means under 20-30g carbs ( ie ketogenic) rather than the more accurate level of under 100-130g and high fat a fat % of 75-80% . They are also dircted to ketogenic or the diet doctor site for further advice / recipes etc. I inputed a lot of the dd recipes into nutrion tracking app to find that individual portions on many were coming in at over 1000 cals and 100g fat. People seeking advice on low carb, or any other for that matter, need to be given the full info rather than an individuals preferences
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But when newly diagnosed and wishing to reduce high blood sugar levels quickly that is probably the best advice. Cut out as many carbs as possible.. if you want to reintroduce some later then try it. Hopefully you will have had such good results by cutting out carbs then you won't want to re-introduce and you will in the meantime re-educated your palate to not seek sugar or sweet things. When you first start out you don't need to track macros and certainly in my case I didn't need to watch calories for the weight to fall off me. Yes I have stalled a couple of times but a bit of fasting has helped through those and I'm now nearing target weight. (or at least where my mind tells me I want to be although my body is maybe saying something else).
B
badcat
Guest
Again thet doesnt imply high fat
We are coming from v different positions. I have been diagnosed diabetic for over 20 years and told on diagnosis that I had already been diabetic for a minimum of 15-20 years. I eat low carb (50-60g) to manage BS with a v moderate amount of fat In terms of weight loss, I also experienced a period of weight falling off me without having to watch calories and lost 61/2 stone in 6 months but 1) that was prior to my diabetes diagnosis, although within the 15-20 years they reckon Id had undiagnosed diabetes 2) it had ****** all to do with LCHF but instead was related to a short (10 day) exclusion diet followed by a longer period of individual food testing for intolerances and subsequent diagnosis with multiple ones ( the exclusion diet revolved around eating lamb, rice and pears so hardly lchf - more hchf at best)
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We certainly are.. 2 years ago I was a newly diagnosed Type 2 and decided that very low carb was probably a great idea for me so I did it and had great success. I still can't see why that advice isn't good for all newly diagnosed to try. It certainly won't do them any harm and may well bring their deranged metabolism back under control. As you say you are different and have had Type 2 for many years but still low carb to control it.. When switching away from a high carb diet then the higher fat intake stops hunger and so there is less incentive to "cheat".
