Hypo treatments

[samantha13]

I've found that if I'm hypo a carton of apple juice with 22g brings me up nicely and my level is stable afterwards on the libre graph. But if I take 4 jelly babies 20g I shoot up and continue to rise for hours afterwards. So tonight I took a hypo and tried just 2 jelly babies and it brought me up nicely. So in future I will use 22g apple juice or 10g jelly babies. Is this weird? I just assumed I'd need the same amount of carbs regardless of the source

 

[Jaylee]

The body processes different foods... Differently.

Sounds a little generic & vague.. But then I'm me not you & likewise!

 

[GrantGam]

I've found that if I'm hypo a carton of apple juice with 22g brings me up nicely and my level is stable afterwards on the libre graph. But if I take 4 jelly babies 20g I shoot up and continue to rise for hours afterwards. So tonight I took a hypo and tried just 2 jelly babies and it brought me up nicely. So in future I will use 22g apple juice or 10g jelly babies. Is this weird? I just assumed I'd need the same amount of carbs regardless of the source

When you experience hypoglycemia, your liver will normally excrete glucose (converted from stored glycogen) into your blood stream. So you may find that your hypo treatment brings up your BG as intended, but the continuous rise in BG hours afterwards may be a due to the natural bodily response from your liver - rather than a difference between the hypo treatments.

My wording is terrible, but basically your liver can do very strange things when you hypo - and the resultant effect is very different depending on many external factors. Such as temperature, hypo severity, activity level, alcohol consumption, time of day (different insulin sensitivity), etc.

 

[Jaylee]

When you experience hypoglycemia, your liver will normally excrete glucose (converted from stored glycogen) into your blood stream. So you may find that your hypo treatment brings up your BG as intended, but the continuous rise in BG hours afterwards may be a due to the natural bodily response from your liver - rather than a difference between the hypo treatments.

My wording is terrible, but basically your liver can do very strange things when you hypo - and the resultant effect is very different depending on many external factors. Such as temperature, hypo severity, activity level, alcohol consumption, time of day (affecting insulin sensitivity), etc.

Agreed. Makes more sense than my cryptic babble earlier... Too many variables.. No hypo is exactly the same.

 

[GrantGam]

Agreed. Makes more sense than my cryptic babble earlier... Too many variables.. No hypo is exactly the same.

I'm glad you can make sense of my Saturday night drunken rabble

You've hit the nail on the head when you say that "no hypo is exactly the same". I always find that the resultant BG rise from hypo treatment is very much dependant on the external variables that I've mentioned. Specifically how quickly you're heading low and also how active you've been that day.

 

[Tophat1900]

A tiny amount of honey does the trick for me, probably less then a quarter of a t-spoon... anything that is in liquid form will work quick.

 

[GrantGam]

A tiny amount of honey does the trick for me, probably less then a quarter of a t-spoon... anything that is in liquid form will work quick.

That equates to around <1.5g of carbohydrates which really isn't anything at all...

I do appreciate that everyone is different, but as already mentioned - the hypo treatment is very dependant on the hypo severity. And more often than not, directly proportional to the amount of extra insulin that was taken to cause the hypo.

 

[Tophat1900]

That equates to around <1.5g of carbohydrates which really isn't anything at all...

I do appreciate that everyone is different, but as already mentioned - the hypo treatment is very dependant on the hypo severity. And more often than not, directly proportional to the amount of extra insulin that was taken to cause the hypo.

Not much at all is right, but I don't take insulin or any other drug... so in my case, I'm not actually having to compensate for those drugs. The 1.5 to 2gs of sugar I'm consuming in honey just works for me. That gets me out of the danger zone, I can eat accordingly after that. Nearly all hypos I have had have been close to meal times. Still, what works for one, doesn't for another.

 

[catapillar]

Not much at all is right, but I don't take insulin or any other drug... so in my case, I'm not actually having to compensate for those drugs. The 1.5 to 2gs of sugar I'm consuming in honey just works for me. That gets me out of the danger zone, I can eat accordingly after that. Nearly all hypos I have had have been close to meal times. Still, what works for one, doesn't for another.

If you don't take insulin or any other drug, what makes you think you are ever anywhere near a danger zone from a hypo? Going hypo close to a meal time when taking no medication could be called being hungry.

 

[JohnEGreen]

I don't take insulin or glucose reducing drugs but non the less have experienced at least three hypos what makes me think they were hypos and not just hunger well when I get hungry I don't as a rule end up flat out on the floor.

The first time it was totally unexpected and had nothing available but a cup or two well three actually of sugary tea before I was back on my feet now there is always lucozade or glucose tablets in the house.

My brother in law who is T1 always has something like a mars bar in his car or about his person and something liquid like lucozade he has frequent hypo's.

 

[kokhongw]

For T2D not on medication or insulin, we can still reach a hypo-like state because it appears that our brain can become insulin resistant and sudden/sharp drop in glucose level without a corresponding rise in ketone bodies will cause an energy deficit.

This kind of scenario can easily happen hours after a higher carb meal because the delayed massive insulin response will result in low blood glucose from 10mmol to < 5mmol. In fact it is not uncommon for me to see a drop from 12-13 mmol to < 4mmol within 3 hours after meal when testing the effectiveness of some tea.

This will send the brain into a frenzied state. We become jittery, sleepy, intensely hungry, cold sweat, heat palpitation etc depending on the severity of our insulin resistance and the magnitude of the drop. But because so few of us actually track our glucose level as closely as T1...few understands what is happening...if you happen to be driving/operating heavy equipments, this is no less dangerous and life threatening....

 

[Jaylee]

For T2D not on medication or insulin, we can still reach a hypo-like state because it appears that our brain can become insulin resistant and sudden/sharp drop in glucose level without a corresponding rise in ketone bodies will cause an energy deficit.

This kind of scenario can easily happen hours after a higher carb meal because the delayed massive insulin response will result in low blood glucose from 10mmol to < 5mmol. In fact it is not uncommon for me to see a drop from 12-13 mmol to < 4mmol within 3 hours after meal when testing the effectiveness of some tea.

This will send the brain into a frenzied state. We become jittery, sleepy, intensely hungry, cold sweat, heat palpitation etc depending on the severity of our insulin resistance and the magnitude of the drop. But because so few of us actually track our glucose level as closely as T1...few understands what is happening...if you happen to be driving/operating heavy equipments, this is no less dangerous and life threatening....

Hi,
Sorry. I had to read this twice.. I empathise that other type Ds due to medication can get lows..

But... Insulin works as a "key" to feed the broken down digested carbs turned to sugars in the blood to the muscles & brain. "Insulin resistance" or not enough insulin actioning the above would cause a rise in BS.
A hypo occurs when the blood sugar levels have depleted to the point of starving the body of this vital energy due to too much insulin on board. Either by an over active pancreas not backing off or too high a dose in meds.. Hence the brain can start to "wave the white flag" around the 3.6mmol mark...

 

[Brunneria]

@Caterpillar reactive hypoglycaemia is surprisingly common, even amongst non diabetics, and may coexist with Type 2, so serious hypos are perfectly possible without drugs to cause them. I have experienced them for decades, and we have an RH sub forum for people with these issues.

@samantha13 my experiences reflect yours, regarding different foods having different 'raising effects'. My preference now is a very small amount of milk, followed by a slower release item. Not typical, but works like a charm Weird how different we all are...

 

[Jaylee]

@Caterpillar reactive hypoglycaemia is surprisingly common, even amongst non diabetics, and may coexist with Type 2, so serious hypos are perfectly possible without drugs to cause them. I have experienced them for decades, and we have an RH sub forum for people with these issues.

@samantha13 my experiences reflect yours, regarding different foods having different 'raising effects'. My preference now is a very small amount of milk, followed by a slower release item. Not typical, but works like a charm Weird how different we all are...

Milk was the T1 hypo treatment recomended when I was a kid.. It was even highlighted in a "Peter & Jane have diabetes" book I was given at the time? Milk with a biscuit follow up...

 

[Brunneria]

Milk was the T1 hypo treatment recomended when I was a kid.. It was even highlighted in a "Peter & Jane have diabetes" book I was given at the time? Milk with a biscuit follow up...

Haha! Brilliant!

They say there is nothing new under the sun...

 

[kokhongw]

Hi,
Sorry. I had to read this twice.. I empathise that other type Ds due to medication can get lows..

But... Insulin works as a "key" to feed the broken down digested carbs turned to sugars in the blood to the muscles & brain. "Insulin resistance" or not enough insulin actioning the above would cause a rise in BS.
A hypo occurs when the blood sugar levels have depleted to the point of starving the body of this vital energy due to too much insulin on board. Either by an over active pancreas not backing off or too high a dose in meds.. Hence the brain can start to "wave the white flag" around the 3.6mmol mark...

Ah what most do not recognized is that
1) most T2D are still able to produce plenty of phase 2 insulin...10s of times higher then usual, in an effort to remove the carbs/glucose from the system. So at 2 hour mark, glucose reading is > 12 mmols, but when the massive amount of phase 2 insulin kicks in, and suddenly all the glucose have disappeared from the circulatory system. This can also be accelerated by strong tea... 10.3 mmol at 10:00pm to 3.7 mmol by 11:51pm (The Accuchek Performa date/time stamp was not in sync.)

2) There can be insulin resistance in the brain as being noted by the development of dementia. So the brain would now require higher level of glucose to feel normal or be adequatedly fueled. A relatively normal 4.5 mmol now is being sensed as a low and the brain starts to react in a hypo manner. It does not even need to go down to the 3 mmol range...

But if a T2D has been on a low carb, ketogenic diet, then there will be sufficient circulating ketone bodies to provide the brain with alternative fuel...and even if glucose is measure in the lower 4mmols or upper 3 mmols, There is no sense of hypo...

 

[leking]

Not much at all is right, but I don't take insulin or any other drug... so in my case, I'm not actually having to compensate for those drugs. The 1.5 to 2gs of sugar I'm consuming in honey just works for me. That gets me out of the danger zone, I can eat accordingly after that. Nearly all hypos I have had have been close to meal times. Still, what works for one, doesn't for another.

You don't take insulin? Are you type 1?

 

[catapillar]

@Caterpillar reactive hypoglycaemia is surprisingly common, even amongst non diabetics, and may coexist with Type 2, so serious hypos are perfectly possible without drugs to cause them. I have experienced them for decades, and we have an RH sub forum for people with these issues

Apologies, my post should be edited to read: -

If you don't take insulin or any other drug, and you don't have reactive hypoglycaemia what makes you think you are ever anywhere near a danger zone from a hypo? Going hypo close to a meal time when taking no medication could be called being hungry.

Would it be considered reactive hypo glycaemic if it was dropping low close to the next meal - so presumably 4 or 5 hours after eating anything?

In respect of hypo treatments, if you aren't on insulin lowering medication your body will counter any low blood sugar with the release of andreneline which will raise raise blood sugar and create insulin resistance and your body will cease producing insulin while blood sugar is low. So you might not need the same quantity/quality of hypo treatment of someone exeperiencing a hypo due to too much exogenous insulin on board, cos that insulin can't be turned off/sucked out and a type 1 diabetic on may well have a slower or not have a counter response to low blood sugar.

I don't take insulin or glucose reducing drugs but non the less have experienced at least three hypos what makes me think they were hypos and not just hunger well when I get hungry I don't as a rule end up flat out on the floor.

What do you think it was causing these episodes? Did you test your blood sugar to see if you were low? Had it been quite some time since you last ate? Did you end up unconcious on the floor? If so, I hope you got checked out by a doctor, because that can't really be explained by being a type 2 diabetic treated by diet: diabetes raises blood sugar and doesn't on its own create any risk of low blood sugar and (unless the treatment by diet is simply not eating or drinking alcohol to excess) the dietary treatment shouldn't cause hypo glycaemia because the body's own responses will counter low blood sugar.

 

[Brunneria]

Apologies, my post should be edited to read: -

Would it be considered reactive hypo glycaemic if it was dropping low close to the next meal - so presumably 4 or 5 hours after eating anything?

I can only speak for myself, but yes, I have had hypos at all sorts of different times - middle of the night, first thing in the morning, just before next meal, and of course the 'typical' RH ones that occur after a meal.

No idea if that is common amongst RHers or even other people who get non diabetic hypos. I know some can be induced by non-diabetic drugs, being premenstrual or in people with insulinomas. But in my case, I think the signalling system for glucagon release is impaired, and possibly the liver dump process is late or inadequate, requiring OTT stress hormone release to trigger. Unfortunately, I haven't seen sufficient research to offer satisfactory explanations.

Sorry for the interruption @samantha13 I won't derail any further.

 

[azure]

I find different hypo treatments work differently @samantha13 For that reason, I tend to go for Lucozade or Dextrose as they work very quickly and are reliable in the way they raise blood sugar.

Basically, use what you can rely on best is my feeling