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I seem to be eating myself

D

dragongirl

Well-Known Member
Messages
349
Location
Northumberland, UK
I really am serious here.

Ignoring the last three days when I have been unwell (I'm tons better today and can eat and exercise again), I am very concerned I am eating my own flesh. I really haven't quite got the whole story about the biology thing. A visit to the doc will have to happen but I really would like some info and advice first so that I go armed and don't have to meekly do the first thing they tell me, which will be to eat plenty of carbs at each meal and take metformin.

(btw I am am 60, recently diagnosed type 2, diet only, 5ft 8, weigh 9st (was nearly 11st - never been more, and usually much less), no other health issues or medication.)

So I have three questions, if more knowledgeable people wouldn't mind throwing their weight (no pun intended) behind whichever bit they can comment on:

1. If I eat sufficient fat and protein and some carbs during the day, will my body stop digesting me? And when it has supplied my energy needs, what does it do with the excess food? Because at the moment it seems to use what I eat and go on to take me too. Even though I ate my fill and was satisfied and felt energetic all day.

2. Could it be that I am not making insulin, rather than being insulin resistant? This would logically mean that the only way to keep bg low is to leave off food. I haven't consciously done this, but on the other hand I haven't felt hungry between meals and don't eat as much at a meal as I used to. After my previous "weight loss" post, I did add in two snacks during the day and felt I had stabilised weight. Obviously the last three days has scuppered this, but I am still painfully skeletal. So not putting weight on despite eating more, and flesh looks worse.

3. What exact role does exercise play? I find green veg raises my bg (whether I eat tiny portions of two, or a larger portion of one – I really would like to eat more veg, like I used to) so I have to exercise twice after each meal (say 10 mins during the first post-hour and again for 15 mins before second test as I usually peek at number two). This seems excessive and I know others go for one walk or swim or gym per day. Should you be able to do the exercise all at once? In which case, there would seem to be something wrong with my metabolism that means I have to keep at it - like fighting an ongoing battle to keep the floods at bay!

As I say, I will speak to my GP but I would like info first from sympathetic people before facing what will be the usual NHS recommendation and possible ridicule for having tried to do something else and failing.
 
Hi Dg.

You need to increase your calorie consumption to gain weight, those calories should come from foods that are good for you.
Healthy fats include omega-3 essential fatty acids sources like tuna, salmon, flax, and walnuts. Good sources of protein include lean meats, fish, poultry, nuts, seeds and legumes. Healthy carbohydrate sources include fruits, vegetables and whole grains.
It may be easier to eat five or six smaller balanced meals per day rather than eating three large meals, especially if you are not used to eating much at one sitting.
Protein powders and nutritional supplement drinks can be added as in-between meal snacks if you still need more calories. Some protein powders are flavored and only need added water and some others can be blended with your choice of juice or milk to improve the taste.

It would also be a healthy idea to add a small amount of flax seed oil and some psyllium powder to add some omega-3 essential fatty acids and extra fiber.

A high-quality multivitamin and mineral supplement is a good idea to make sure you are getting all of the vitamins and minerals you need. Some people find that their muscle mass increases with protein supplements that contain certain blends of amino acids such as creatine and glutamine.

Resistive Exercise To Gain Weight
Exercise is also important for healthy weight gain. Resistance training exercises such as lifting weights will help to increase your muscle size. Aerobic exercises such as running and stationary bicycling are better for fat loss and excessive aerobic training may cause you to lose more weight. Resistance training can be done at a health club, gym or at home with the proper equipment.
Remember that it can take a while to gain the weight you need, but be patient and continue to choose healthy foods until you reach your goal weight.

Discuss with your Gp your concerns as you can be prescribed things to help you gain weight
 
You say you were diqagnosed T2 recently. Was that confirmed by testing? If your diabetic symptoms and weight loss came on fast, there could be a question as to whether this is simple T2 or another form of diabetes.
What blood sugar reasings are you getting?
Hana
 
Thanks, Cugila - that's an interesting answer to how to gain weight and I will take note, especially about the right type of exercise - I need to change this it seems - but it also raises issues:

eg (quote) "Healthy carbohydrate sources include fruits, vegetables and whole grains." As I said, veg easily raises my bg unacceptably. Fruits and whole grains are even worse. Perhaps this will mean I can't just do low carbing without also some medication. That's one of the things I am wondering. I will look into the carb content of some of the supplements you mention.


Hana, thanks for replying.

They just did a fasting blood test of 8.3 and said hba1c was 8.2 and diagnosed on that basis. Plus had gradually lost 1 stone since April (2-3 months earlier) plus dry skin and thirst at night. I have lost another stone since then. They said "you are not the overweight profile" (altho I reckoned 11 stone was pushing it a bit!). They only saw me at ten stone and thought it was fine despite hearing about the recent weight loss.

After 1st DN visit 13th July (asked to come back mid Oct), I found this forum and got testing kit and started lowering carbs. So:

Taking 8 readings per day (only one after brekkies cos work in bed with tea for an hour then eat towards half nine):
(previous to week 1's testing I had instigated the exercise routine - one thing at once, I thought!)
wk 1: all 4s to 6s plus five in the 7s
wk 2: 4s and 5s plus nine in the 6s
wk 3: 4s and 5s plus five in the 6s (all in the first 2 days)
wk 4: 4s and 5s plus only one 6
wk 5: 4s and 5s plus two 6s after one particular meal
wk 6 (ends today): 3s to 7s I've been ill with a virus. Today is on track for 4s and 5s as I can eat and exercise.

The weight has dropped constantly but on week 6 seemed stable again. But at 9st. The illness and not eating much for a few days has pushed it down a few pounds but perhaps I could get that back now I'm eating?

Thanks for any help you can suggest.
DG

edit:
PS I realise these scores will seem trivial to worry about to anyone who has worse scores - please don't be offended, it's the serious weight loss that's worrying me while I keep these scores. I have never felt healthier apart from that.
 
Hi Dg.

I am sure there are many thing that you won't or can't eat compared to me.

There is no reason why you cannot eat more calories by just a few simple tweaks to the things that you do eat, even how it is cooked helps.

For instance, 1 fillet of grilled Cod has 166 calories and 0g carbs.

If you fried it in breadcrumbs (shock) then it has 435 calories and only 9g carbs. Worth a try. There are many other foods with a similar outcome. If you haven't already got one get yourself the Collins Gem Calorie Counter book (has carbs and fibre etc in it) or my favourite is the Pocket Calorie Counter by Carolyn Humphries priced at £3.99 from W H Smith's or similar.
 
Hi DG. Having read your post,

What exact role does exercise play? I find green veg raises my bg (whether I eat tiny portions of two, or a larger portion of one – I really would like to eat more veg, like I used to) so I have to exercise twice after each meal (say 10 mins during the first post-hour and again for 15 mins before second test as I usually peek at number two).
Click to expand...

A rise in blood sugar after eating is normal !I t's how long it takes to come back to normal that matters.That is why most diabetics test after two hours to see if it has returned to the reading they get before they eat.

If you exercise after each meal you are burning off the calories that will help you maintain or put on weight.

I suggest that you up you limits a bit and do not worry so much if your bg goes up to the 6's!! The important thing is that your levels return to your pre -meal reading after two hours. Maybe you could wait for the two hour reading then, if they are not down , then exercise.

I don't understand why the veg is raising your bg apart from the normal rise after eating. Eating veg and fruit, if you can manage this, will help you maintain a healthy diet. What sort of veg are you eating as most green veg are quite low in carbs.
 
Cugila - if I had 9g carb with the crumbed fish, that would be all I could have with a meal, so I have it 'neat' and add veg! If I had the extra carbs per meal then we would be in the 7s till 3 hrs after. I've tried. But please read on. And yes, I rely on the Collins carb book.

I think we may be getting somewhere. Perhaps I have misunderstood what we are aiming at.

Sue, I thought an average (in the hba1c) would disguise very lows and very highs, so I would have to keep belows and aboves reasonably in bounds on a day-to-day basis for the hba1c to have any meaning.

Anyway, looking through pre and post scores, mine are never back to pre score afterwards. Pres are mostly 4.5 - 4.9 (never 5s, sometimes the odd 3.9) and two-hour scores are usually 5.5 - 5.7(ish). If I add more carbs (either larger veg portions or other ways) then these post scores will be higher and less like the pres and take 3 hours to come down. So I feel trapped.

I wasn't exercising after the meal to burn calories but because I thought I'd read that exercise helped combat insulin resistance. Maybe got that wrong?

Re the veg, we have broccoli, greens, savoy, celery, cauli, spinach and courgette, sometimes leek or a small amount of green pepper. Mostly the others though. The only reason I think the veg is causing the rise is that the protein mostly has zilch carbs, hence an earlier thread where I queried the tuna steaks. Something doesn't tally!

So it seems as if what I need is firstly more calories (which will sometimes entail more carbs) and secondly a way to avoid those extra carbs refusing to come down at two hours. I hear you about taking the exercise after the two hours - would that be like like allowing the spike and then dealing with it, and wouldn't that have harmed my pancreas by then?? I think I am getting something wrong.

I'm very sorry to be having this trouble and causing you to spend time answering. But a solution worked out this way will be more helpful than the DN's one.
Thanks!
DG
 
DG your numbers are almost non diabetic numbers! You have done so well getting down to this but you are in danger of getting obsessive about it and, in so doing, damaging your health.

Protein can also turn into glucose in the body , about 60 % of it, now , please do not stop eating protein because of this , just take that into account.

You need a good diet to maintain your health and, although keeping your blood sugars down is important, so is your overall health.

would that be like like allowing the spike
Click to expand...

Going by your numbers, although your blood sugars rise, as does everybodys, after a meal, there is not a big 'spike' so I do not see anything to worry about there. I wish I had your numbers !

As Cugila asked, what is your daily carb intake ?
 
That's puzzling - protein into sugar? How are we supposed to know that? So even if the meat or whatever says no carbs, there are? It's getting worse!

I have reviewed my notebook and reckon that before I introduced snacks the total carbs, added up the best I could and jotted down each time I served a plate (not a science though) and including tea/coffee drinks, varied between 30-40, but is now between 40-50. I think you are going to say that is not enough. I half think that myself but can't quite see how to rectify it safely. I reckon half of those are coming from milk in tea anyway.

So can I ask for an example of what you would consider a damaging spike then?
And, if I take 3 hours to get rid of some 7s, would the extra food be worth trading against potential damage?

I think I'm in a mess, but at least I've been trying. I could have carried on with my former menus and pretended I didn't have a problem to deal with. This way feels better but it may take longer than I hoped to get it sorted into something that works ok. I appreciate your help.

DG
 
So can I ask for an example of what you would consider a damaging spike then?
Click to expand...

A damaging spike is probably above 12 mmol/L DG. What you have after meals is a normal rise from your food. The numbers you have are almost normal and you really should just go with them , not try and get them so low. If you go too low then your liver will automatically 'dump' and raise your blood sugars again anyway especially after exercise.

The milk in your tea is not going to make much difference. Half a pint of semi-skimmed milk would give you 15 gms of carbs. Half a pint of whole milk would give you 14 gm carbs but would give you 198 calories as opposed to semi skimmed which is 138 calories.

What is your Hba1c, DG ? I don't think you have mentioned it. ( or I missed it! :D ).

It is the Hba1c number which ,if it is constantly over 7% , can potentially cause damage not your daily blood sugar readings.

Please try and stop worrying about too much carbs DG. The amount that you are eating is low and is keeping you well under control. Do not worry about the protein conversion, you need this for energy etc.
I think that you need to see a dietician for some more informed input into your diet especially to stop you losing any more weight.
 
If you are thirsty and peeing a lot and losing weight it could be that you are quite insulin deficient and you may need insulin or a sulphonylurea drug to control your symptoms. The rise in blood sugar after eating may not be compensated by the pancreas by insulin release and you are peeing out the extra sugar rather than storing it as fat. This is how type ones often present.

Your blood sugars look good, and I'm not sure what is going on here.

You should see your GP and let him know what you are eating, your test results, your toilet habits and the changes in your weight.
 
Sue - It's up above somewhere ;-) but I only have one hba1c and it was 8.2. That's why I need to lower it. I'll perhaps be able to be less obsessed when I've had another (always supposing it's lower!).
Thanks anyway. Will go cook some tea now...
DG
 
Sorry, Katharine, missed your reply while posting my last reply to Sue! Thanks for your time. I think what you say is what I fear may be happening. I am not keen to take those drugs because if I get the side effects I will not be able to do (reliably) one of my two jobs.

I am not peeing a lot and am only thirsty at night - on the other hand if I didn't wake up so often because of aches I wouldn't necessarily know I was thirsty! During the day i have been trying to drink two bottles of water in addition to the perhaps 7-8 mugs of tea - but am not peeing much as a result. Maybe my body needs to keep it?

I did do one urine sugar test with one of those strips and it proved negative. I only did it because the original one at the docs showed sugar (and led to the fasting test) and I thought I'd check.
I will certainly be asking to see the doc or the dietician but am away most of this week so it will have to be when I get back. Meantime, trying hard not to worry so much!
DG
 
Hi DG

I have read this thread with interest as I seem to be having similar problems as yourself. I will certainly be trying some of the weight gain suggestions posted. I have lost a lot of weight since December, I'm not sure what weight I was in December as I don't usually weigh but I was a size 12, now down to a loose fitting size 8! Like you I have had to considerably cut out most carbs to keep my BG below 6.5 although I only manage to get 5's if I limit myself to lettuce, cucumber and cheese. The slightest amount of carb ie 1 tbsp of rice will send me into the 7's or 8's. I can only lower my BG through strenuous exercise, ie: fast cycling. Walking doesn't have any effect. I try to eat every two hours if my BG is below 6.5 and find that macadamia nuts are convenient and portable snack that have quite high fat. Also lidl 10% fat greek yoghurt is delicious and creamy. Maybe you could try these as a way of adding a few calories? Although I do wonder whether eating too much fat is good for our overall health. Its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place!

Well done for maintaining your readings!! Hope you have some success with the recommendations suggested. Sorry I haven't been able to make many suggestions, I'm new to this myself, I just thought it may help you to know you are not alone with this problem.

Best wishes
 
Hi blue pippy. Thanks for that information - really sorry you are having the same trouble. IT's really hard keeping one's trousers up, isn't it :lol: I am doing the nut thingy now that I am well again - also have added in snacks between meals with low carb but high other stuff, especially calories. Am hoping this will stem the loss and things will settle down. It *is* worrying about the fat but I have been convinced by the things people on here write who know more than me and in the end, would I rather die of too much fat or of diabetes complications and the former gets my vote right now!
Do PM me if you think we could be of use to each other meals-wise. There aren't that many people here trying to put on weight!!!!
DG
 
Just an update

Ten days on from getting over the virus (and having this conversation above), I appear to be stabilised. I have seriously upped the amount of nuts I am eating, instigated a snack mid-afternoon and decided to chill out over any veggie effects, and had a piece of cheese for supper (before ten pm). AND - and this is interesting - done no exercise beyond walking around a bit when away last week. The result is odd but good: no further weight loss (still at 9 stone, having dipped below with virus) and all scores 4s or 5s and veggies seemingly ok. Also, I wait till the after-brekkies test (only one, cos have late brekkies) and then drink the benecol with 4 almonds and it doesn't seem to spike bg at all.

What do I make of this?? Well, the exercise seemed to be helping me eat veg but obviously was taking off weight which I couldn't afford to lose. The ton of nuts must have had some effect. And for some reason, my body seems to have started using what insulin it has in a proper manner – I ask myself if that could be that the exercise did in fact force me to be less resistant. Or that ten weeks on from lowering carbs, I am getting back to something near normal and would have anyway. Or that the virus that laid me low actually had a beneficial effect (less likely!).

I'm pleased to be less bothered by things, a tiny tiny bit in need of a more interesting menu (I deserve a medal for the nut eating), and glad to ditch the exercise though willing to take it up at first sign of need. The lack of further weight loss is a relief. I await future developments with interest rather than panic. Due at doctor's in a couple of weeks or so, which of course is D-day.
 
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