If you had to guess the type, which would it be?

[CrumblingWall]

Hi all, I have posted 3 years ago. I have gone to an endo because they found sugar in my urine. My hba1c was normal, but I failed glucose tolerance test. The c-peptide, antibodies were all ok. I went in to do the test on lower carb diet and hence endo thought my failure was because of that...

3 years has gone and I started eating more carbs in February 2020. I did not measure my A1c since then but am scheduled to go back to the endo. We will re-test c-peptide, hba1c, fasting, antibodies.

I have had 4-antibody panel in 2017 and 2020 Jan, both times all negative. I come here for advice because all things I have read about ketogenic diet seem to have fallen into abyss.

1) Fasting BG is higher on keto - due to physiologic insulin resistance .... well, my fasting has been same on higher carb diet. I usually have been in 5.2-5.5 range (high normal). Recently slightly higher due to abx, infection, surgery ... or at least hoping that is the case.

2) My postprandials are all over the place - the highest I recorded hit 10.4 mmol/l 1 hour after the meal. I do come down to 8+ and then I slowly chug along lower. It can take 3-4 hours for BG to return to 6s. I have noticed that my spikes are higher and last longer when I am stressed, did not sleep enough or overeat in pure carbs.

3) My carb portion are never high, around 30-40g max. I eat around 120g of carbs a day. Not much, but that is the only way to not be 7+ all the time.

My endo has basically grasped for straws and is sending me for MODY test on the NHS funds, it is expensive but he thinks it is indicated. However, I do not feel like I am falling into this camp. The diabetes history is not strong and my fasting BG is usually below 6 mmol/l...

It is unlikely I will test positive for antibodies on the 3rd attempt as he said. It has been 3 years and I did not develop higher BGs.

Until recently. My fastings were creeping towards 6 mmol/l and less carbs send me higher and keep me there longer. I remember measuring plenty of 5.xs in the day, but now mostly stay in 6..x.

Anyone here tracking their BG closely without dbx diagnosis?

 

[Lamont D]

Hi all, I have posted 3 years ago. I have gone to an endo because they found sugar in my urine. My hba1c was normal, but I failed glucose tolerance test. The c-peptide, antibodies were all ok. I went in to do the test on lower carb diet and hence endo thought my failure was because of that...

3 years has gone and I started eating more carbs in February 2020. I did not measure my A1c since then but am scheduled to go back to the endo. We will re-test c-peptide, hba1c, fasting, antibodies.

I have had 4-antibody panel in 2017 and 2020 Jan, both times all negative. I come here for advice because all things I have read about ketogenic diet seem to have fallen into abyss.

1) Fasting BG is higher on keto - due to physiologic insulin resistance .... well, my fasting has been same on higher carb diet. I usually have been in 5.2-5.5 range (high normal). Recently slightly higher due to abx, infection, surgery ... or at least hoping that is the case.

2) My postprandials are all over the place - the highest I recorded hit 10.4 mmol/l 1 hour after the meal. I do come down to 8+ and then I slowly chug along lower. It can take 3-4 hours for BG to return to 6s. I have noticed that my spikes are higher and last longer when I am stressed, did not sleep enough or overeat in pure carbs.

3) My carb portion are never high, around 30-40g max. I eat around 120g of carbs a day. Not much, but that is the only way to not be 7+ all the time.

My endo has basically grasped for straws and is sending me for MODY test on the NHS funds, it is expensive but he thinks it is indicated. However, I do not feel like I am falling into this camp. The diabetes history is not strong and my fasting BG is usually below 6 mmol/l...

It is unlikely I will test positive for antibodies on the 3rd attempt as he said. It has been 3 years and I did not develop higher BGs.

Until recently. My fastings were creeping towards 6 mmol/l and less carbs send me higher and keep me there longer. I remember measuring plenty of 5.xs in the day, but now mostly stay in 6..x.

Anyone here tracking their BG closely without dbx diagnosis?

Yes, I am non diabetic and I regularly test my BG.
I can't diagnose you but I may have an idea of what is happening.
First, what symptoms are you getting?
Have you been testing before and after meals as recommended on the forum?

The BG levels you are getting are typical T2, with insulin resistance, but your fasting and I presume your Hba1c levels are normal. Your fasting is in the high 5s because of an infection? That is where I would expect it to be.
Some T2s are carb intolerant and even though you are only having around 125g of carbs per day it could be sufficient to get those results.
Do you get hypos?
What meds are you on?

I know of a condition which has utterly stumped some endocrinologists. Or it could be metabolic syndrome. Diagnostic tests can only get to the bottom of this.

Hope this helps

 

[Emile_the_rat]

Not trying to be harsh, so sorry if I appear like that. My experience are that many people seem to fear a diabetic diagnosis, and as a concequence they seem to freak out by even slightly elevated blood sugar levels, even when the readings are within normal.

First thing first, 10.4 mmol are not high, at least not from a diabetic perspective. Blood sugar usually peaks 15-60 min after eating, all depending on what you eat and metabolism, so 10.4 mmol are not impossible in non-diabetics.

Not sure if guidelines are similar in different countries, but where I live you have to have at least two random readings above 11.2 mmol to be ruled out for diabetes (or high HbA1c). 10.4 mmol are close, but still within normal.

I got diagnosed after having 20.6 mmol, and several readings from 13-16 mmol after eating before diagnosis. Which is why (from a diabetic perspective) I don find 10.4 mmol that high.

If I’m not mistaken 4.0 mmol to 5.9 mmol fasting are normal, 6.0-6.9 mmol are considered pre-diabetic. 5.2-5.5 mmol are therefore good, even if it is a little bit on the high side.

You have been checked for the past 3 years, with no sign of worsening bloodsugar (by my understandings of this post). Based on that, I would say there is really no reason to worry (at least not by what you mention here). I am not advising you to not getting it checked, please do if you’re conserned I just want to say that it don’t seem as bad as you seem to think, as none of your blood sugar values (at least of the ones mentioned in this post) are within diabetic range.

Take care

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi all, I have posted 3 years ago. I have gone to an endo because they found sugar in my urine. My hba1c was normal, but I failed glucose tolerance test. The c-peptide, antibodies were all ok. I went in to do the test on lower carb diet and hence endo thought my failure was because of that...

3 years has gone and I started eating more carbs in February 2020. I did not measure my A1c since then but am scheduled to go back to the endo. We will re-test c-peptide, hba1c, fasting, antibodies.

I have had 4-antibody panel in 2017 and 2020 Jan, both times all negative. I come here for advice because all things I have read about ketogenic diet seem to have fallen into abyss.

1) Fasting BG is higher on keto - due to physiologic insulin resistance .... well, my fasting has been same on higher carb diet. I usually have been in 5.2-5.5 range (high normal). Recently slightly higher due to abx, infection, surgery ... or at least hoping that is the case.

2) My postprandials are all over the place - the highest I recorded hit 10.4 mmol/l 1 hour after the meal. I do come down to 8+ and then I slowly chug along lower. It can take 3-4 hours for BG to return to 6s. I have noticed that my spikes are higher and last longer when I am stressed, did not sleep enough or overeat in pure carbs.

3) My carb portion are never high, around 30-40g max. I eat around 120g of carbs a day. Not much, but that is the only way to not be 7+ all the time.

My endo has basically grasped for straws and is sending me for MODY test on the NHS funds, it is expensive but he thinks it is indicated. However, I do not feel like I am falling into this camp. The diabetes history is not strong and my fasting BG is usually below 6 mmol/l...

It is unlikely I will test positive for antibodies on the 3rd attempt as he said. It has been 3 years and I did not develop higher BGs.

Until recently. My fastings were creeping towards 6 mmol/l and less carbs send me higher and keep me there longer. I remember measuring plenty of 5.xs in the day, but now mostly stay in 6..x.

Anyone here tracking their BG closely without dbx diagnosis?

To be honest, I don't think guessing is appropriate in terms of getting to the bottom of any health puzzle.

You are in the care of a medical team, including specialist care (I'd be curious why, when you have not raging signs, or diagnosis, of diabetes you have sought Endo help), so those guys are the ones to unpick any puzzle you feel is there.

My own experience, and that of many, many others tells us that our bodies don't always work along with the plan we have in mind of it.

Where an unusual meal is eaten, our bloods can go a bit left field and be quite wonky. Our bodies like to work to a bit of a routine, and it's "clever" enough to make ready for whatever has been routinely eaten of late. So throwing a very different meal at our systems can leave our digestion and metabolism not quite ready to deal with it efficiently.

For those who test, that might mean higher or lower blood sugars than expected, and whether or not the person tests, it can lead to lethargy, indigestion, headaches and a plethora of other things.

An example of that could be Christmas (or any other festive/celebration) Dinner where we might eat different things or just more of them, then feel like we want to go to sleep or have indigestion. Our body is just feeling a bit overloaded or overwhelmed by what we've asked it to do. If we repeated that meal a couple of times, our bodies could well get better at dealing with it, although fwe would choose to have the indigestion, headaches or whatever, just for an experiment.

So, I'm afraid you need to have your tests done, and if the diagnosis is no diabetes, then you should try to accept that. There is nothing to say that no diagnosis today means there could not be a diagnosis in the future, but right not you seem to be chasing something most of us would much rather have avoided.

 

[CrumblingWall]

To be honest, I don't think guessing is appropriate in terms of getting to the bottom of any health puzzle.

You are in the care of a medical team, including specialist care (I'd be curious why, when you have not raging signs, or diagnosis, of diabetes you have sought Endo help), so those guys are the ones to unpick any puzzle you feel is there.

My own experience, and that of many, many others tells us that our bodies don't always work along with the plan we have in mind of it.

Where an unusual meal is eaten, our bloods can go a bit left field and be quite wonky. Our bodies like to work to a bit of a routine, and it's "clever" enough to make ready for whatever has been routinely eaten of late. So throwing a very different meal at our systems can leave our digestion and metabolism not quite ready to deal with it efficiently.

For those who test, that might mean higher or lower blood sugars than expected, and whether or not the person tests, it can lead to lethargy, indigestion, headaches and a plethora of other things.

An example of that could be Christmas (or any other festive/celebration) Dinner where we might eat different things or just more of them, then feel like we want to go to sleep or have indigestion. Our body is just feeling a bit overloaded or overwhelmed by what we've asked it to do. If we repeated that meal a couple of times, our bodies could well get better at dealing with it, although fwe would choose to have the indigestion, headaches or whatever, just for an experiment.

So, I'm afraid you need to have your tests done, and if the diagnosis is no diabetes, then you should try to accept that. There is nothing to say that no diagnosis today means there could not be a diagnosis in the future, but right not you seem to be chasing something most of us would much rather have avoided.

Thanks, I shall do exactly that. I want to find out what is going on because I personally do not feel well above 8 mmol/l and think it is just not a place I want to be. I cannot get away with keto because it caused too many problems. So, carbs are needed as well as find out if there is an issue.

 

[bulkbiker]

I eat around 120g of carbs a day. Not much, but that is the only way to not be 7+ all the time.

I eat around 10g of carbs per day.. do you think it might be that you are still overloading your body at 120g?

 

[NicoleC1971]

Hi all, I have posted 3 years ago. I have gone to an endo because they found sugar in my urine. My hba1c was normal, but I failed glucose tolerance test. The c-peptide, antibodies were all ok. I went in to do the test on lower carb diet and hence endo thought my failure was because of that...

3 years has gone and I started eating more carbs in February 2020. I did not measure my A1c since then but am scheduled to go back to the endo. We will re-test c-peptide, hba1c, fasting, antibodies.

I have had 4-antibody panel in 2017 and 2020 Jan, both times all negative. I come here for advice because all things I have read about ketogenic diet seem to have fallen into abyss.

1) Fasting BG is higher on keto - due to physiologic insulin resistance .... well, my fasting has been same on higher carb diet. I usually have been in 5.2-5.5 range (high normal). Recently slightly higher due to abx, infection, surgery ... or at least hoping that is the case.

2) My postprandials are all over the place - the highest I recorded hit 10.4 mmol/l 1 hour after the meal. I do come down to 8+ and then I slowly chug along lower. It can take 3-4 hours for BG to return to 6s. I have noticed that my spikes are higher and last longer when I am stressed, did not sleep enough or overeat in pure carbs.

3) My carb portion are never high, around 30-40g max. I eat around 120g of carbs a day. Not much, but that is the only way to not be 7+ all the time.

My endo has basically grasped for straws and is sending me for MODY test on the NHS funds, it is expensive but he thinks it is indicated. However, I do not feel like I am falling into this camp. The diabetes history is not strong and my fasting BG is usually below 6 mmol/l...

It is unlikely I will test positive for antibodies on the 3rd attempt as he said. It has been 3 years and I did not develop higher BGs.

Until recently. My fastings were creeping towards 6 mmol/l and less carbs send me higher and keep me there longer. I remember measuring plenty of 5.xs in the day, but now mostly stay in 6..x.

Anyone here tracking their BG closely without dbx diagnosis?

Hi
Just wondered if you had any other metabolic indicators eg. hdl/triglycerides ration? Blood pressure without meds? Liver function or a scan for fat in that organ?
If you were to test your insulin levels fasting and after meals at the same time as doing blood glucose tests this would indicate whether you are making excess insulin to deal with the carbs that you're eating. At present you've only got the glucose levels but as a starter it would be interesting to know if you can get a fasting glucose value. Our modern day population often has elevated fasting insulin levels but the norm is supposed to be 6 (that's US and I've no idea if it is the same in the uK).
You can be insulin resistant without a diabetes diagnosis so it is worth knowing those things.
Otherwise if you are at a healthy weight and feel well I'd carry on with the low ish carbs because this implies you are getting plenty of high quality nutrients instead of piles of starch. The endo is likely to be focussed on the glucose levels but as I said the insulin levels might be the more helpful metric here.

 

[CrumblingWall]

Hi
Just wondered if you had any other metabolic indicators eg. hdl/triglycerides ration? Blood pressure without meds? Liver function or a scan for fat in that organ?
If you were to test your insulin levels fasting and after meals at the same time as doing blood glucose tests this would indicate whether you are making excess insulin to deal with the carbs that you're eating. At present you've only got the glucose levels but as a starter it would be interesting to know if you can get a fasting glucose value. Our modern day population often has elevated fasting insulin levels but the norm is supposed to be 6 (that's US and I've no idea if it is the same in the uK).
You can be insulin resistant without a diabetes diagnosis so it is worth knowing those things.
Otherwise if you are at a healthy weight and feel well I'd carry on with the low ish carbs because this implies you are getting plenty of high quality nutrients instead of piles of starch. The endo is likely to be focussed on the glucose levels but as I said the insulin levels might be the more helpful metric here.

c-peptide is better than insulin and he will do that test.

My fasting is between 5-6 mmol/l. It varies depending on stress previous day. It is lower when I slept better and higher when I did not. Or ate food before bed.

 

[Emile_the_rat]

Thanks, I shall do exactly that. I want to find out what is going on because I personally do not feel well above 8 mmol/l and think it is just not a place I want to be. I cannot get away with keto because it caused too many problems. So, carbs are needed as well as find out if there is an issue.

I can say with certainty that 8 mmol are not the reason you don’t feel well. Sorry, but blood sugar are not a personal feeling. 8 mmol are nothing compared to high levels that some diabetics have to struggle with. Sorry, but I have always found it a bit offensive when people complain about feeling bad at completely normal levels, or at least offensive toward those diabetics who each single day have to struggles with high blood sugar.

Personally I think it sounds more psychical and more «in your head». To me it seems like you‘ve somehow have convince yourself that it must be diabetic related, when in reality 8 mmol are not even high or abnormally.

Have to agree with DCUKMod, if the diagnosis end up as not diabetic, you should try to accept that, and not try to chase further for a diabetic diagnosis.