I'm getting a bit cross with Dr Trudi Deakin

Pipp

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While many of us are unable to tolerate anything else if we want to control our diabetes.

LCHF means low carb high fat and is a ketogenic diet. Nobody is forcing anybody to do this but if you want to achieve ketosis LCHF is a very good way. What is confusing is that OP claims she is on LCHF while questioning the 80E% fat content.

I think we all need to interpret the HF component @Totto , to suit our own circumstances.

When I first heard of the LCHF method, I tried eating plenty of cream, butter, cheese etc. basing my meals on high fat ingredients. I gained weight, and felt nauseous. I really wish I was able to base my diet on a very high ratio of fat, because it is delicious.

My own version of a LCHF diet would now be to include some fat at each meal, no refined carbs, very little complex carbs, mainly vegetables of the non-starchy variety with some meat or fish.
 
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AnnieC

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While many of us are unable to tolerate anything else if we want to control our diabetes.

LCHF means low carb high fat and is a ketogenic diet. Nobody is forcing anybody to do this but if you want to achieve ketosis LCHF is a very good way. What is confusing is that OP claims she is on LCHF while questioning the 80E% fat content.
Well maybe she is one of those who could not tolerate that amount of fat in a day you can't force yourself to eat fat if it doesn't suit you
 
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AnnieC

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I think we all need to interpret the HF component @Totto , to suit our own circumstances.

When I first heard of the LCHF method, I tried eating plenty of cream, butter, cheese etc. basing my meals on high fat ingredients. I gained weight, and felt nauseous. I really wish I was able to base my diet on a very high ratio of fat, because it is delicious.

My own version of a LCHF diet would now be to include some fat at each meal, no refined carbs, very little complex carbs, mainly vegetables of the non-starchy variety with some meat or fish.
Yes you are right we all have to do the LCHF diet in the way that suits us personally LCHF is not a one size suits all diet we all do it differently
 
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AnnieC

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While many of us are unable to tolerate anything else if we want to control our diabetes.

LCHF means low carb high fat and is a ketogenic diet. Nobody is forcing anybody to do this but if you want to achieve ketosis LCHF is a very good way. What is confusing is that OP claims she is on LCHF while questioning the 80E% fat content.
So what do you suggest people do then when they are unable to tolerate that amount of fat in a day Some people have other medical issues that mean a diet high in fat is not suitable for them so how about them. Are you saying that anyone who can't tolerate that amount of fat can't do LCHF
 
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zand

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Annie - They can do LCEF if that's the case. I prefer LCHF because I have a lot of weight to lose and need to get into ketosis to do this. I find 80% fat is easier if you are not having a huge amount of total calories. You don't need to lose weight so this isn't necessary for you. :)
 
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Pipp

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Annie - They can do LCEF if that's the case. I prefer LCHF because I have a lot of weight to lose and need to get into ketosis to do this. I find 80% fat is easier if you are not having a huge amount of total calories. You don't need to lose weight so this isn't necessary for you. :)

I wish I had known about 'Enough fat' rather than high fat, though, @zand. I tried LCHF following recommendations on here, and nobody mentioned ENOUGH fat it was all about HIGH fat. It just didn't work for me, whereas ENOUGH fat does. Everyone will have their own level of Enough fat, not everyone will be able to have a high level.
 
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AndBreathe

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I think the point of the OP's post was that 80% fat a day could be to much for some people even some of those doing LCHF not everyone would be able to tolerate that amount of fat every day

But Annie - Surely anything we read, we have to apply practically. If she wrote she has 200g carb a day, we would know that could be a bit rich for us, although there may be some for whom that could be an effective reduction.

In my view, completely prescriptive diets (i.e., Monday breakfast = x, Lunch = y and Dinner = z, and so on) aren't going to work for most people. Usually, there's something in there we don't like, or it doesn't fit into our general lifestyle, or family circumstances. Surely, we need to think through any circumstance and modify it to suit ourselves?

If she had written that she eats "quite a lot of fat", that means different things to different people, and actually, I doubt it would be the talking point this article undoubtedly has been. Has anyone heard friends or family commenting on the recipe? I pointed it out to my OH, who has modified his diet to help me with my requirements, and he sort of noted how it was sort of how we eat, although we have nowhere close to that amount of fat.

This lady is talking about her lifestyle and selling a book. If the content and detail of the book were in the article, why would anyone have to spend their £4.99? She may be a powerful advisor in diabetes, but she is a businesswoman, and her book(s) will all be part of her income stream planning.

Fair play to her, I say.
 
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zand

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I do find all this nit-picking about LCHF to be a tad tiresome. Every health recommendation that ever was will have to have been adapted by certain minorities. I myself couldn't exercise for 30 minutes 5 times a week due to a heart condition, but I didn't rubbish that recommendation for everyone else. I could see the sense in it and did my best to do what I could manage every day, even if that was only walking 50 metres for an entire day.

This is a diabetes forum, so the advice here is for diabetics. Yes of course many of us have other conditions, but we can't have sections for 'type 2's with AF and asthma' or 'types 1's with epilepsy and kidney disease' so we need to adapt the recommendations if necessary to suit ourselves, just like I did with the exercise. It's common sense surely.

@Pipp So you discovered EF on your own? That's exactly what I'm talking about, then tell others that what suited you, great! That's what a sensible person does.
 
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Daibell

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Well, I remain very sceptical of dieticians in the NHS. Some are no doubt excellent but so many make no attempt to search for underlying science behind what they teach hence the plain dangerous advice many diabetics have received. Yes, at last the tide is turning but I suspect it's mainly following the crowd again but at least the crowd appears to be more informed this time round.
 
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nancyb

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So if you do lchf why do have a problem with the for LCHF completely normal 80E% fat?

I am not following a ketogenic diet, I am eating a lot less carbs and have increased my fat intake. By this method I have got my b.g sorted and lost 10% body weight in 3 months. LCHF does not have to mean 80% fat.
I have no idea what percentage of the calories in my diet comes from fat and I have neither the time nor the inclination to work it all out. I very much doubt it would be 80%.
Dr Deakin's article was aimed at the general public not the diabetes forum. A large percentage of the readers have probably dismissed her as a crank (or Atkin's) because of her extreme statement.
We live in a country where many people are struggling to feed themselves and their families. Many people would not have the time, the understanding or the finances to follow this diet. Moreover, when you eliminate any major food group from your diet you have to know what you are doing to ensure nutrient intake, fibre intake, adequate digestion and electrolyte balance.
If everyone in the country ate an 80% fat diet we would have to increase the production of animal based products and when animal production goes up for the west, people in third world countries lose out.
The advice we have been given about carbs and fats in the past is wrong (and Dr Deakin will probably have known that for a long time). However, carbs are cheap and some foods such as bread, cereals and marg, which may be a staple for struggling families, are fortified. So there is a lot of work to do in the public health arena in order to ensure that people eat well and do not go hungry. I don't believe everyone, even diabetics, needs to follow a ketogenic diet, we just need to change the proportions and get more exercise.
 

Pipp

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I do find all this nit-picking about LCHF to be a tad tiresome. Every health recommendation that ever was will have to have been adapted by certain minorities. I myself couldn't exercise for 30 minutes 5 times a week due to a heart condition, but I didn't rubbish that recommendation for everyone else. I could see the sense in it and did my best to do what I could manage every day, even if that was only walking 50 metres for an entire day.

This is a diabetes forum, so the advice here is for diabetics. Yes of course many of us have other conditions, but we can't have sections for 'type 2's with AF and asthma' or 'types 1's with epilepsy and kidney disease' so we need to adapt the recommendations if necessary to suit ourselves, just like I did with the exercise. It's common sense surely.

@Pipp So you discovered EF on your own? That's exactly what I'm talking about, then tell others that what suited you, great! That's what a sensible person does.

So is my mention of enough fat nit picking or telling others what works for me, or both?
To be sure, nit picking was not my intention, sorry if it appeared that way.
 
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Andy12345

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I am not following a ketogenic diet, I am eating a lot less carbs and have increased my fat intake. By this method I have got my b.g sorted and lost 10% body weight in 3 months. LCHF does not have to mean 80% fat.
I have no idea what percentage of the calories in my diet comes from fat and I have neither the time nor the inclination to work it all out. I very much doubt it would be 80%.
Dr Deakin's article was aimed at the general public not the diabetes forum. A large percentage of the readers have probably dismissed her as a crank (or Atkin's) because of her extreme statement.
We live in a country where many people are struggling to feed themselves and their families. Many people would not have the time, the understanding or the finances to follow this diet. Moreover, when you eliminate any major food group from your diet you have to know what you are doing to ensure nutrient intake, fibre intake, adequate digestion and electrolyte balance.
If everyone in the country ate an 80% fat diet we would have to increase the production of animal based products and when animal production goes up for the west, people in third world countries lose out.
The advice we have been given about carbs and fats in the past is wrong (and Dr Deakin will probably have known that for a long time). However, carbs are cheap and some foods such as bread, cereals and marg, which may be a staple for struggling families, are fortified. So there is a lot of work to do in the public health arena in order to ensure that people eat well and do not go hungry. I don't believe everyone, even diabetics, needs to follow a ketogenic diet, we just need to change the proportions and get more exercise.



lol so you may after all this be eating 80%? :) brilliant!
 
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zand

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So is my mention of enough fat nit picking or telling others what works for me, or both?
To be sure, nit picking was not my intention, sorry if it appeared that way.

I intended only the last bit to be for you personally Pipp. :) You have always explained what is right for you without condemning the whole diet. That can only help others not hinder them :)
 
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sanguine

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So what do you suggest people do then when they are unable to tolerate that amount of fat in a day Some people have other medical issues that mean a diet high in fat is not suitable for them so how about them. Are you saying that anyone who can't tolerate that amount of fat can't do LCHF

I think @Brunneria was right earlier in the thread in saying that the c80% fat refers to energy source rather than weight of food.
 

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I am not following a ketogenic diet, I am eating a lot less carbs and have increased my fat intake. By this method I have got my b.g sorted and lost 10% body weight in 3 months. LCHF does not have to mean 80% fat.
I have no idea what percentage of the calories in my diet comes from fat and I have neither the time nor the inclination to work it all out. I very much doubt it would be 80%.
Dr Deakin's article was aimed at the general public not the diabetes forum. A large percentage of the readers have probably dismissed her as a crank (or Atkin's) because of her extreme statement.
We live in a country where many people are struggling to feed themselves and their families. Many people would not have the time, the understanding or the finances to follow this diet. Moreover, when you eliminate any major food group from your diet you have to know what you are doing to ensure nutrient intake, fibre intake, adequate digestion and electrolyte balance.
If everyone in the country ate an 80% fat diet we would have to increase the production of animal based products and when animal production goes up for the west, people in third world countries lose out.
The advice we have been given about carbs and fats in the past is wrong (and Dr Deakin will probably have known that for a long time). However, carbs are cheap and some foods such as bread, cereals and marg, which may be a staple for struggling families, are fortified. So there is a lot of work to do in the public health arena in order to ensure that people eat well and do not go hungry. I don't believe everyone, even diabetics, needs to follow a ketogenic diet, we just need to change the proportions and get more exercise.
Which isn't then LCHF!
Lchf is a ketogenic diet! That's the point!
I don't know either how much fat I eat. Nor do I carb count. I don't need to. I avoid all starchy carbs and sweet stuff. I eat limited amount of berries and no other fruit. If I do eat starchy carbs or fruit then I have high bs! As a diabetic, this is not desirable for obvious reasons. By eating lchf you are not missing out a food group. The clue is in the title. Low carb not no carb! Veg contains carb!
Yes carbs are cheap and if people want to eat them then that is up to them. We have a very tight income but are still able to eat lchf. Chilli for example - full fat mince is a lot cheaper than lean mince! Fatty cuts of meat are often cheaper than lean versions. Eggs can also be bought cheaply. Lidl is a Godsend!
 
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AndBreathe

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I am not following a ketogenic diet, I am eating a lot less carbs and have increased my fat intake. By this method I have got my b.g sorted and lost 10% body weight in 3 months. LCHF does not have to mean 80% fat.
I have no idea what percentage of the calories in my diet comes from fat and I have neither the time nor the inclination to work it all out. I very much doubt it would be 80%.
Dr Deakin's article was aimed at the general public not the diabetes forum. A large percentage of the readers have probably dismissed her as a crank (or Atkin's) because of her extreme statement.
We live in a country where many people are struggling to feed themselves and their families. Many people would not have the time, the understanding or the finances to follow this diet. Moreover, when you eliminate any major food group from your diet you have to know what you are doing to ensure nutrient intake, fibre intake, adequate digestion and electrolyte balance.
If everyone in the country ate an 80% fat diet we would have to increase the production of animal based products and when animal production goes up for the west, people in third world countries lose out.
The advice we have been given about carbs and fats in the past is wrong (and Dr Deakin will probably have known that for a long time). However, carbs are cheap and some foods such as bread, cereals and marg, which may be a staple for struggling families, are fortified. So there is a lot of work to do in the public health arena in order to ensure that people eat well and do not go hungry. I don't believe everyone, even diabetics, needs to follow a ketogenic diet, we just need to change the proportions and get more exercise.



Nancy - have you tested yourself to see if you are dietary ketosis? For all you know could be right in there. We all have different levels for entering and leaving ketosis, but certainly the fat burning (in this instance body fat) process works extremely efficiently in ketosis. Due to location and accessibility of supplies, I wasn't in a position to do this sort of analysis, or weigh myself and a few other things, for a few months post-diagnosis. However, when those facilities became available to me, I found I was in mild dietary ketosis, and had lost pretty much all the weight I needed to.

I don't consider that I do LCHF either. I have reduced my carbs, and when meal planning (at the moment, when I'm on my own), I tend to decide what I'll have, then sense check if it's enough to maintain my weight (which I found to be a challenge), then I might deicde to have some berries and cream, or a creamy sauce with my veg, or whatever. In essence, I tend to bulk up meals (if once planned, I feel I might still be hungry at the end of it) by adding more veg, and/or if I think I will be full enough, but there aren't enough calories to keep me stable, I'll up the fat a bit. With fat calories being 8 per gramm, as opposed to carb and protien at c4 calories per gramm, it's an easy way to make the balance.

I could go back through myfitnesspal and review my fat gramms, as it records them for me, when I record my food, I might be surprised what actual percentage I am consuming. I don't find the 80% of energy from fat an edifying thought, but nor do I find the prospect of weight gain or high bloods any more palatable. Whilst my overall bloods, including liver, kidney and lipids remain good, I'm not going to scare myself by getting too worked up about a number.

I'm not picking any kind of disagreement with you Nancy, but to say you "don't" or you "aren't" when you don't appear to have measure what you don't or aren't doesn't help your argument.

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Avocado Sevenfold

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I am not following a ketogenic diet, I am eating a lot less carbs and have increased my fat intake. By this method I have got my b.g sorted and lost 10% body weight in 3 months. LCHF does not have to mean 80% fat.
I have no idea what percentage of the calories in my diet comes from fat and I have neither the time nor the inclination to work it all out. I very much doubt it would be 80%.
Dr Deakin's article was aimed at the general public not the diabetes forum. A large percentage of the readers have probably dismissed her as a crank (or Atkin's) because of her extreme statement.
We live in a country where many people are struggling to feed themselves and their families. Many people would not have the time, the understanding or the finances to follow this diet. Moreover, when you eliminate any major food group from your diet you have to know what you are doing to ensure nutrient intake, fibre intake, adequate digestion and electrolyte balance.
If everyone in the country ate an 80% fat diet we would have to increase the production of animal based products and when animal production goes up for the west, people in third world countries lose out.
The advice we have been given about carbs and fats in the past is wrong (and Dr Deakin will probably have known that for a long time). However, carbs are cheap and some foods such as bread, cereals and marg, which may be a staple for struggling families, are fortified. So there is a lot of work to do in the public health arena in order to ensure that people eat well and do not go hungry. I don't believe everyone, even diabetics, needs to follow a ketogenic diet, we just need to change the proportions and get more exercise.
I think you should give My Fitness Pal a go. You may be surprised :)

I don't fill it in now, but have just been flicking through my food diary on MFP from last year. I often hit 80% fat without bothering the meat industry.
 

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I don't believe everyone, even diabetics, needs to follow a ketogenic diet, we just need to change the proportions and get more exercise.

You are welcome to believe whatever you like (as are we all).

However, I disagree with you.
Many people benefit from nutritional ketosis (and you are likely one of them. Have you tested for current ketone levels?)

And some people do best in nutritional ketosis - I am one of them.
 
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Totto

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I think we all need to interpret the HF component @Totto , to suit our own circumstances.

When I first heard of the LCHF method, I tried eating plenty of cream, butter, cheese etc. basing my meals on high fat ingredients. I gained weight, and felt nauseous. I really wish I was able to base my diet on a very high ratio of fat, because it is delicious.

My own version of a LCHF diet would now be to include some fat at each meal, no refined carbs, very little complex carbs, mainly vegetables of the non-starchy variety with some meat or fish.
You can only interpret High Fat to a certain point after which it stops being high fat. Generally I'd say HF sits around 75-80%.

Cream is nice but also rather high in carbs. I try to limit cream but go for butter, olive oil, coconut oil and duck fat when I can get it. And I know it can take time for some to get used to a high fat diet but if you take your time you'll see the benefit.
 

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