In the news.

first14808 said:

I still want to see the actual results, ie the paper as published in the Lancet and supporting data. And then followups to see if patient's T2 stays in 'remission', especially if people go back to high carb diets. Main advantage to ND seems to be it's supervised and nutrient managed, so perhaps safer than other crash diets.. But those kind of diets can lead to yo-yo effects and weight soon comes back. The press release versions are rather light on data, and I wish all public funded research was published in open-access journals.

And on a personal note, I don't think ND would work for me simply because I can't stand chocolate/vanilla/strawberry flavoured vomi.. I mean shakes. It's partly the texture, and partly the synthetic taste that puts me off.

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I'm ok with the choc/vanilla/strawberry-flavour vomi.... (a good mixer/blender is vital!) but one of the question marks over VLCD shakes, bars etc is the fact that they are very sweet. Some VLCDs have soups and savoury sachets which does help (does the ND?) but if the shakes are all sweet, what about those who crave sweet things? I am again thinking of post-ND - if you have a sweet tooth, which may or may not have contributed to T2, I wonder if that craving has disappeared? There is a huge amount of psychology wrapped up in VLCDs. Please don't misconstrue my pondering - I love reading members' successes with low-carb, ND, keto etc as those methods have worked for them - I am genuinely curious about the psychology linked to this type of diet.

Hiitsme said:

Thank you @Fleegle
I was thrilled yesterday when @himtoo posted a link. By the time I had read the link and posted I felt everyone was anti.I so much admire people for tackling their diabetes head on and particularly those who have used the Newcastle diet approach. I didn't as my GP was anti so I lost weight just by reducing calories and it took longer. I feel there are so many different approaches that work for different people and would want to encourage anybody in an approach that works for them. I am not anti LCHF but am concerned about high fat for me. I'm almost feeling scared to air my views as any method other than LCHF seems to get shouted down. When I joined almost 3 years ago there were lots of people trying the ND. Not all succeeded but a lot did. I don't know for how long and that would interest me. I would like to read the full research from the latest study but seem expensive from the Lancet.

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There's quite a lot of info from the Newcastle University website:- http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclac...ancecentre/files/low-calorie-diet-article.pdf

Dark Horse said:

There's quite a lot of info from the Newcastle University website:- http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclac...ancecentre/files/low-calorie-diet-article.pdf

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Wow thank you. Note to self next time I read it make notes as I go.

My issues with the ND are:

1. If you are not overweight to start with it doesn't help. Not all T2s are obese.
2. It meant starving yourself and being hungry a lot - not only do I think I'd lack the willpower but as it's a carby shake it would affect my short term BG levels which was a major problem I had before getting off the carb roller coaster through a low carb lifestyle.
3. It's too early for there to be any long term follow up as to how the participants got on two or more years down the line and what do they eat after the ND? If they went back to 'normal' diet how many of them were able to keep BG under control?
4. Prof Taylor did say somewhere that it was the 10% weight loss that was important rather than the quickness. As a side effect of low carbing I lost 10% of my weight anyway and it hasn't altered my response to carby foods at all.

However if people think it's right for them they should be encouraged and it's got to be better than bariatric surgery which is the other 'breakthrough' that seems to be getting a lot of attention in the press recently.

If you have the willpower and support to do ND that is great but I would imagine for a lot of people the low carb high fat lifestyle is a much easier option and one that can be happily kept up for a lifetime once habits are changed, no starvation, no need for willpower and sweet or carby foods become less attractive the longer you continue low carb and you don't need medical supervision and there is a lot of support from low carb forums etc.

I guess I would choose a lifestyle diet over an extreme one.

Even Santa has gone ND now.

I don't think low cal would have worked for me initially.However after some weeks of low carbing and the subsequent reduced hunger I think it would have been a lot easier.Low carbing was working so well in terms of weight loss I saw no reason to change.In fact the success I was having was motivation to continue.
What I would like to know is whether the two approaches are just different ways of achieving the same end, or whether they each achieve different results.
I think the the longer term approach needs to be looked at.With low carb we need to find the level of, and particular carbs we can manage with.I have found my insulin resistance hasn't changed even after getting my hba1c below 40.I still need to maintain very low carb.Others have been more successful.I think I can continue my current diet indefinitely.
But what happens with the low cal approach?Does it have a different effect on insulin resistance?Would I have improved my insulin resistance if I had gone low cal?
Then of course,we're all different.

Burg said:

What I would like to know is whether the two approaches are just different ways of achieving the same end, or whether they each achieve different results.
.

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I can only speak of my experience which is that the type of calories I consume make a very big difference. I tried eating 1200 cals a day of just my usual diet, 150-180g and didnt lose weight. So they I tried eating 1200 cals of low carb, medium fat and protein a day. My carbs are around 80-100g a day. And I have now lost nearly 2 stones in 18 months from eating this way.

So for me, the carb reduction as a proportion of my intake was crucial to my weight loss.

Quite aside from my blood sugar levels dropping as a consequence within days of my dropping my carb intake, before I had even lost 1lb of weight.

I should also say that, for various medical reasons, I can do little exercise.

Sue192 said:

I'm ok with the choc/vanilla/strawberry-flavour vomi.... (a good mixer/blender is vital!)

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Hmm.. Good point. So pink sludge mixed with a dry vermouth? Yellow sludge with dry ginger and a dash of bitters?

but one of the question marks over VLCD shakes, bars etc is the fact that they are very sweet. Some VLCDs have soups and savoury sachets which does help (does the ND?) but if the shakes are all sweet, what about those who crave sweet things?

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Good point, and where the health industry lacks imagination. So the ND shakes are meant to be eaten with veg.. So courgettes washed down with chocolate? Perhaps more main-course oriented flavours should be tried, like bacon. And bacon. And maybe prawn cocktail, pickled onion or just plain'ol cheese and onion. But like you say, might be an opportunity to help wean people off sweet things.