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Insulin Resistance, HBa1C and Time

I thought you got your test results on line? Mine go back years.

Lol. My bowels are fine, thanks, no problems! :)
I do since I changed surgery in February of this year but at the old surgery it was appointments and repeat prescriptions only. At my new surgery they only have online results for tests ordered by their staff since the end of April. Paper notes are still not there.

I have asked at reception about getting a printout of all blood test results this year and got a snooty reply so I will be demanding them from the gp when I see him some time next month.

So glad your bowels are in good form!
 
Interestingly both @bulkbiker and I don't worry about saturated fats. it would be very interesting to see any results from someone who does - if anyone has it ?

I have avoided fats for so many years, it's affected my taste and I dislike fats attached to meat, it seems to upset my stomach as well. It's obviously present within meats but I suppose not eating much red meat and then only lean cuts. My "weight by date" software suggests 25gms of sat fat a day as being how much sat fat I should eat, I'm always between 0 and 20 gms. I'm also much less on total fats (saturated, polyunsaturated, monounsaturated and trans fats).

Only yesterday I had the results of a range of urine tests and gut bacteria tests which I had done at the suggestion of my Nutritional Therapist. A couple of things of note, although I have very healthy levels of testosterone I also have higher levels of estrogen - always knew I was in touch with my feminine side. I also have high levels of fat where it's shouldn't be, in my stool samples which means that my body doesn't process fat so well, it literally goes straight through me. I'm told that it should be broken down and absorbed in the small intestine before going on. I also have higher cholesterol levels if I eat more cheese, yogurt and cream.
 
Maybe because some of us still only lose on a low fat diet AND low carb.

When you say this - do you actually mean that you can only lose weight on a restricted calorie diet? I assume you do not eat proteins freely? i.e. you try to stick below a certain level of calorie as well as restricting carbs - If so then that is my diet too.

I do limit myself to about 1250 calories on most days and generally that wold end up being about 60% fats, 20% protein20% carbs . However according to the keto settings in cronometer that would be actually be " low fat" I.e. that is the macrnutrient I am effectively restricting.
 
I have avoided fats for so many years, it's affected my taste and I dislike fats attached to meat, it seems to upset my stomach as well. It's obviously present within meats but I suppose not eating much red meat and then only lean cuts. My "weight by date" software suggests 25gms of sat fat a day as being how much sat fat I should eat, I'm always between 0 and 20 gms. I'm also much less on total fats (saturated, polyunsaturated, monounsaturated and trans fats).

Only yesterday I had the results of a range of urine tests and gut bacteria tests which I had done at the suggestion of my Nutritional Therapist. A couple of things of note, although I have very healthy levels of testosterone I also have higher levels of estrogen - always knew I was in touch with my feminine side. I also have high levels of fat where it's shouldn't be, in my stool samples which means that my body doesn't process fat so well, it literally goes straight through me. I'm told that it should be broken down and absorbed in the small intestine before going on. I also have higher cholesterol levels if I eat more cheese, yogurt and cream.


I am puzzled by the interpretation of your results - you have been restricting fat for a long time if I've read your posts properly -
I appreciate that you've had a lot of tests done to try to identify the source of your problems. Are you sure that the fat in your stool samples is actually coming from the fat you eat ? Why would it be if you are not eating much fat?

All too often our advisers make this simplistic assumption that what goes in is directly correlated to what comes out - which is why the whole - don't eat cholesterol, saturated fats etc came about. It is precisely because our medical/ nutritional/ pharmaceutical professions made these simplistic assumptions that the progrssive illness requiring more drugs viscous cycle gets started.

I avoided fats like the plague for nigh on 40 years and all my blood works gradually became dreadful. It was precisely because I had been on a strict low calorie, low fat diet for so long at the point that I was diagnosed - which led me to do the complete opposite - with a stunning result in my blood profile and improvement in blood sugars.

I eat close to average of 95g fats per day of which 35g is saturated. There is advice everywhere on the internet including the NHS that tells me that this will send my cholesterol soaring and the level of fat in my blood sky high and trigger a heart attack .
In fact the precise opposite happened re lipid results. ( heart attack we will see eventually ! )

My theory is that I don't have trigs aka sat fat (only 0.8) in my blood stream because I have enough being ingested - and that is also why all my other lipid profiles have improved so dramatically because for the very first time in my life my body is getting the right nutrients.

So could it be the same in that fat in stools comes from the carbs you eat ( or possibly in your case protein - if you can't eat fats and you are already restricting carbs ) . Or even comes from the extreme need to mobilise your own fats as a result of a diet so low in overall nutrients for so long?

On the cholesterol levels - what goes up? Trigs. hdl or ldl. Does the ratios of ldl/ hdl also get worse?

Looking at the PURE study where low levels of fat directly correlate to increased risks of lots of things, I worry that whilst most of the western world is not in danger of not eating enough fats simply because our diets are so rich in the first place, the people most at risk are those that are the most metabolically unhealthy - which is generally overweight people ( mainly women who usually comply better - though you sound like a person very committed to succeeding ) . I'm fairly sure that my own source of ill health was precisely that, because I am very committed to succeeding at what I do as well.

These are precisely the people not getting enough fat because of their low calorie low fat diets - ie the ones most affected by the current obesity/ diabetes epidemic . risk of death .jpg

The figures in the attached table are shown as percentages of total diets. As such the total calorie intake is going to be a lot higher than anyone on a very strict diet.

Of course on first glance that would suggest that those eating a diet low in carb will be at least risk however - these tables often mislead. especially when couched in percentage terms.

Looking at these tables my own intake of total saturated fats at around 35g is 25% of my actual calorie intake of 1250 calories, but that would be 16% of a 2000 calorie normal diet for a woman- so not as far to the right of the table as a first glance would suggest.

If your total saturated fats is only say 15g - which it sounds like it is - then that would only be 5% of a normal 2500 calorie male diet which is at the extreme end of low fat intake on these tables for saturated fats, and from what you say, all the other fats as well.

Sorry if you have already been through this thought process and concluded that it does not apply to you for some medical reason :)
 

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When you say this - do you actually mean that you can only lose weight on a restricted calorie diet? I assume you do not eat proteins freely? i.e. you try to stick below a certain level of calorie as well as restricting carbs - If so then that is my diet too.

I do limit myself to about 1250 calories on most days and generally that wold end up being about 60% fats, 20% protein20% carbs . However according to the keto settings in cronometer that would be actually be " low fat" I.e. that is the macrnutrient I am effectively restricting.
I eat proteins freely.
However all nutritionists and dieticians want me to eat far less protein. I'm working on it. Still losing on unlimited protein. However, my appetite increases on too much protein so i do reduce it when that happens. So I eat low carb but 150gs (ish) and approx 250g protein throughout the day. Mild to low fat with orilstat to help 1/3 less absorption. I'm currently covering my carbs with novarapid 20units per meal and I'm taking multivitamins and vitd3. I very rarely eat veg. I never eat fruit, cheese or nuts unless a treat.
I'm not on a calorie controlled diet but the basal insulin keeps my bgs down so I don't get cravings nor emotionally eating like I did before diagnosis.
I've been tested emotionally eating loads lately and no interest in changing my 2-3 meals per day with no snacks.
Longterm use of metformin is aiding my weight loss.
 
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I eat proteins freely.
However all nutritionists and dieticians want me to eat far less protein. I'm working on it. Still losing on unlimited protein. However, my appetite increases on too much protein so i do reduce it when that happens. So I eat low carb but 150gs (ish) and approx 250g protein throughout the day. Mild to low fat with orilstat to help 1/3 less absorption. I'm currently covering my carbs with novarapid 20units per meal and I'm taking multivitamins and vitd3. I very rarely eat veg. I never eat fruit, cheese or nuts unless a treat.
I'm not on a calorie controlled diet but the basal insulin keeps my bgs down so I don't get cravings nor emotionally eating like I did before diagnosis.
I've been tested emotionally eating loads lately and no interest in changing my 2-3 meals per day with no snacks.
Longterm use of metformin is aiding my weight loss.

Have you actually tried sticking to a proper LCHF diet?. i.e. 1250 calories,(for me 5ft 7 female) adjusted for your height about 30g carbs, about 70 g proteins ( or 1 g per plan body weight) with the balance a mix of non industrial fats
eg seeds, nuts, butter, olive oil ( not industrial seed oils) . You probably don't need to eat many veggies if you don't want as long as you supplement as necessary.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/415539 this study shows the LCHF works better than Low fat plus Orlistat

Based on the PURE study and other readings - my own view is that eventually Orlistat will be taken off the market because it will become clear that the very thing it is doing - stopping you absorbing fat - is the opposite of what it should be doing.

Your protein levels are very high especially coupled with a relatively high carb load - so that will be adding to your glucose levels those two together come to 1600 calories without any considerations of the fat content.

Your hunger pangs will also come from the insulin you are injecting to cover the carbs you are eating

I can't emphasis enough how big a difference ketosis - which comes from low combined protein and carbs - makes to the ease to dieting simply because it is so good at stopping hunger pangs - when that is coupled with improving lipid profiles and reduced glucose levels and insulin requirements its a win win.

The same point about low fat levels I have just posted may well apply to your own diet. Sorry if you've already tried this, I assume you must have at some stage ... just that the evidence is growing that it is the extremely low fat content of diets that is doing a lot of the damage-
 
And now it seems even bones can become insulin resistant!

https://twitter.com/BenBikmanPhD/status/905081911034314754
I'm not surprised. Obviously bone density is involved somewhere. Canagliflozin and family meds can effect this, somehow. Too.
I've always known my huge muscles covered in fat affected my IR. My muscle density is reducing, more than fat at mo.
Maybe that is the weight I'm losing, rather than fat. However my endocrologist/dn has told me my insulin use is in par with none IR sufferers now.
 
Have you actually tried sticking to a proper LCHF diet?. i.e. 1250 calories,(for me 5ft 7 female) adjusted for your height about 30g carbs, about 70 g proteins ( or 1 g per plan body weight) with the balance a mix of non industrial fats
eg seeds, nuts, butter, olive oil ( not industrial seed oils) . You probably don't need to eat many veggies if you don't want as long as you supplement as necessary.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/415539 this study shows the LCHF works better than Low fat plus Orlistat

Based on the PURE study and other readings - my own view is that eventually Orlistat will be taken off the market because it will become clear that the very thing it is doing - stopping you absorbing fat - is the opposite of what it should be doing.

Your protein levels are very high especially coupled with a relatively high carb load - so that will be adding to your glucose levels those two together come to 1600 calories without any considerations of the fat content.

Your hunger pangs will also come from the insulin you are injecting to cover the carbs you are eating

I can't emphasis enough how big a difference ketosis - which comes from low combined protein and carbs - makes to the ease to dieting simply because it is so good at stopping hunger pangs - when that is coupled with improving lipid profiles and reduced glucose levels and insulin requirements its a win win.

The same point about low fat levels I have just posted may well apply to your own diet. Sorry if you've already tried this, I assume you must have at some stage ... just that the evidence is growing that it is the extremely low fat content of diets that is doing a lot of the damage-
Yes. I tried lchf with myfitness app too.
I became ill with palpitations and severe dizziness. Even thou no blood pressure problem or magnisium, potassium or sodium irregularities. I'm treated for fast heartbeat now, still. When I have more carbs I have no palpitations but even on 150g I can have palpitations occasionally. Insulin helps with covering the 150g carbs.
Multipal health problems have to be satisfied by diet and meds too. Not just diabetes, for me.
 
Yes. I tried lchf with myfitness app too.
I became ill with palpitations and severe dizziness. Even thou no blood pressure problem or magnisium, potassium or sodium irregularities. I'm treated for fast heartbeat now, still. When I have more carbs I have no palpitations but even on 150g I can have palpitations occasionally. Insulin helps with covering the 150g carbs.
Multipal health problems have to be satisfied by diet and meds too. Not just diabetes, for me.


I understand the palpitations point (I have them myself now and again ) and the odd bit of sight dizziness - though I have read somewhere that actually having a bit of an irregular beat isn't necessarily a bad thing ! ( i.e. the most regular is straight line - ie dead! ) I'll see if I can find it :)

Having looked at the research myself I concluded that for me, the palpitations fell into the category - " not to worry no serious health concern" - as opposed to an actual clinical condition and that getting my weight down and my insulin levels low was my top priority . In the end we all have to try and choose what to tackle first :) depending on the severity of the symptoms.

How long did you manage with the LCHF before the palpitations caused you to stop it ? I am myself considering whether to up my carbs a little and testing slowly with what that does to my blood glucose now I have got my fasting insulin levels down to near normal.
 
I am puzzled by the interpretation of your results - you have been restricting fat for a long time if I've read your posts properly -

Thank you for your time and comments. There's a lot going on at the moment and I'm struggling a bit to get everything done that needs doing. Life's like that for everyone really. I might be dropping one of those plates that I seem to be juggling.
 
Thank you for your time and comments. There's a lot going on at the moment and I'm struggling a bit to get everything done that needs doing. Life's like that for everyone really. I might be dropping one of those plates that I seem to be juggling.

Thanks, you are not the only one - too much stuff not enough time.

That PURE study set off a bit of a light bulb moment in my head - I cross-checked my data against the diet plans I had been following in the past _ " a healthy balanced diet" as per for example dietplan.co.uk. I realised that not only did those plans included nearly 70% carbs ( inc 35% just pure sugar !!!!! ) but also ludicrously low levels of fat - and given how ill I was when this all got diagnosed last year - despite the fact that I'd already switched out their sugars for " healthy " carbs - it made me think that maybe the issue was not actually the carbs or sugars in isolation - instead it was the low fat that came from trying to stick to fats as a percentage of an already very low number instead of as a gram amount.

Looking at the contents of those diets not, I think probably one of the main reasons British women are not dropping like flies is is that they are probably getting some of the necessary nutrients when they cheat. Otherwise they would all be to the extreme left of those fat/ mortality charts.
 
I understand the palpitations point (I have them myself now and again ) and the odd bit of sight dizziness - though I have read somewhere that actually having a bit of an irregular beat isn't necessarily a bad thing ! ( i.e. the most regular is straight line - ie dead! ) I'll see if I can find it :)

Having looked at the research myself I concluded that for me, the palpitations fell into the category - " not to worry no serious health concern" - as opposed to an actual clinical condition and that getting my weight down and my insulin levels low was my top priority . In the end we all have to try and choose what to tackle first :) depending on the severity of the symptoms.

How long did you manage with the LCHF before the palpitations caused you to stop it ? I am myself considering whether to up my carbs a little and testing slowly with what that does to my blood glucose now I have got my fasting insulin levels down to near normal.
Unfortunately ambulance crew and cardiologist disagreed with you about my palpitations being better ignored when they were then causing chest pain in the end.
I wouldnt recommend people ignore irratic changes in their resting heart rate which can cause heart attacks then heart failure.
Maybe a gp could have medicated more to avoid chest pains and the further distress, not mentioning money spent on heart equipment, staff and funds.
I recommend anyone experiencing palpitations, especially strong enough to stop sleep and rest to seek medical assistance!
 
Unfortunately ambulance crew and cardiologist disagreed with you about my palpitations being better ignored when they were then causing chest pain in the end.
I wouldnt recommend people ignore irratic changes in their resting heart rate which can cause heart attacks then heart failure.
Maybe a gp could have medicated more to avoid chest pains and the further distress, not mentioning money spent on heart equipment, staff and funds.
I recommend anyone experiencing palpitations, especially strong enough to stop sleep and rest to seek medical assistance!

Oh I wasn't suggesting for a second that applied to you ! and in fact I am myself going off to see someone to check out if my carotid artery is ok - though if it isn't it won't be the LCHF - the results on that have been erratic on my blood tests for years. Just that its only now I've stopped sticking my head in the sand and ignoring what my actual blood tests are telling me

You do sound like you've been in the wars for years :) so total respect for the effort .

Just that it seems to me that the closer anyone gets to doctors ,the more likely they will drum home the low fat message in preference to pretty much anything else as it seems to be the main thing most of them think about!

good luck with the dieting :)
 
Oh I wasn't suggesting for a second that applied to you ! and in fact I am myself going off to see someone to check out if my carotid artery is ok - though if it isn't it won't be the LCHF - the results on that have been erratic on my blood tests for years. Just that its only now I've stopped sticking my head in the sand and ignoring what my actual blood tests are telling me

You do sound like you've been in the wars for years :) so total respect for the effort .

Just that it seems to me that the closer anyone gets to doctors ,the more likely they will drum home the low fat message in preference to pretty much anything else as it seems to be the main thing most of them think about!

good luck with the dieting :)
Good luck with your further investigations.
I'm just reading the possibility of my dizziness may be to do with neuropathy. I'm delving deeper.
 
Looking at my results ' I'm pretty convinced that the reason my Trigs are so low (0.8)mmol is so low is precisely BECAUSE I eat plenty of sat fat not despite it. I think the entire point is that if you are eating saturated fats there is no reason whatever to have them in your blood stream They go into your blood stream when other stuff is being converted into sat fats in the body.
I'm very happy with both my 22-26% sat fats in my 1300 calorie diet and the results I am getting in terms of blood sugar and lipids.
I read the news roday, Oh boy!
I was wondering who was causing this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-41164625/why-is-the-price-of-butter-going-up

Maybe LCHF is finally going to get noticed. I mean the Swiss Gnomes were predicting this a year or so ago when Sat Fat got its thumbs up.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...consumer-perceptions-about-fat-300144839.html

It is ironic and an oxymoron, but there are some recent studies that show that a sat fat rich diet is actually better at losing weight faster than a low fat diet
 
https://idmprogram.com/new-science-diabesity-hormonal-obesity-xi/

Interesting article showing how insulin resistance develops over time. It also shows that in a control group of non diabetics fasting insulin is around 50 pmol/litre = 7.2 miUL ( @bulkbiker 3.6 Me 8.3) .

I never even knew it could be tested until I took part in the Tim Noakes study

On my first test the result was 20 miUL = 135 Pmol. Looking at the chart attached God knows what it could have been after 40 years of obesity .

In the last 6 months my hba1C has remained pretty much unchanged 43 down to 42 BUT my fasting insulin has dropped dramatically.

based on the attached data both @bulkbiker and I have fasting insulin levels around or below those of a metabolically healthy non diabetic - despite being horribly overweight on diagnosis and despite still needing to lose more weight now . I am still obses so now I am 41 yrs obsese on their chart instead of 40 !

If you do decide to get your fasting insulin done, it will come back with a range 2- 25 pmol this is clearly NONSENSE - the figures should be closer 2-7 pmol

The good news is that even if you have platuead (like me) if you stick with LCHF the underlying metabolic damage in your body is still being repaired.

Interestingly both @bulkbiker and I don't worry about saturated fats. it would be very interesting to see any results from someone who does - if anyone has it ?
How do you go about getting a fasting insulin test done ? - fascinating article.
 
How do you go about getting a fasting insulin test done ? - fascinating article.
From my experience you have to get it done privately.. I used medichecks.com and had the blood drawn locally total cost 65 quid.. they will send you a blood sample tube to fill from finger pricks but I reckoned it would take all morning (as well as all my fingers and toes).
 
Have you actually tried sticking to a proper LCHF diet?. i.e. 1250 calories,(for me 5ft 7 female) adjusted for your height about 30g carbs, about 70 g proteins ( or 1 g per plan body weight) with the balance a mix of non industrial fats
eg seeds, nuts, butter, olive oil ( not industrial seed oils) . You probably don't need to eat many veggies if you don't want as long as you supplement as necessary.

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/415539 this study shows the LCHF works better than Low fat plus Orlistat

Based on the PURE study and other readings - my own view is that eventually Orlistat will be taken off the market because it will become clear that the very thing it is doing - stopping you absorbing fat - is the opposite of what it should be doing.

Your protein levels are very high especially coupled with a relatively high carb load - so that will be adding to your glucose levels those two together come to 1600 calories without any considerations of the fat content.

Your hunger pangs will also come from the insulin you are injecting to cover the carbs you are eating

I can't emphasis enough how big a difference ketosis - which comes from low combined protein and carbs - makes to the ease to dieting simply because it is so good at stopping hunger pangs - when that is coupled with improving lipid profiles and reduced glucose levels and insulin requirements its a win win.

The same point about low fat levels I have just posted may well apply to your own diet. Sorry if you've already tried this, I assume you must have at some stage ... just that the evidence is growing that it is the extremely low fat content of diets that is doing a lot of the damage-
That's just it. I'm not getting hungry. I'm very satisfied. No raving hunger like on lchf for me. I was hungry all the time. Advised to increase fat and did. I just added weight. So I stopped it. I couldnt afford to add more weight. I got lower bgs but never low enough to help lose weight. I had to do liver blocks before bed to stop high fbgs on lchf. Hence more food and a snack I didn't want but had to eat to keep fbg number down. All on top off double the insulin units.
I'm on less than half the units now! Great 5s and on the whole lower than lchf could give me.
I really wanted to lose like everyone else.... but I just added.
 
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