Insulin Resistance

[simply_h]

Hi All,

Well this post really blew my mind, had to read it about 4 times, to really get an understanding of it.

But all the same, its a really really good post.

Cheers

Simply_h

 

[viviennem]

Thank you Viv. You've taken it back to a level that mere mortals (and sheep I suspect) can understand. So based on my original question have you got any idea how what you say which makes sense links with Pneus macrophage stuff which also made sense but is different and also the question in my second post about insulin resistance making you stupid?

Not a hope of relating the two, Xyzzy! Frankly, life is too short to try to get my head around it :lol: . But insulin resistance doesn't make me stupid. It's too much wine that does that :crazy: . (where's the smilie for 'hic!' ?)

Viv 8)

 

[Paul1976]

Are there any 'tell tale signs' that point to either an insulin resistance problem or just a total lack of insulin produced by the pancreas as I'm not sure which one applies to me.

 

[catherinecherub]

Thought this was interesting.

Obesity, without inflammation does not result in insulin resistance.
Insulin resistance can also be disassociated from fatty liver.
Insulin, not obesity, cause of Insulin Resistance.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 133106.htm
You may say that the study was only done with rodents but how else do researchers learn these things?

Another article here,

The macrophange at the Crossroads of Insulin Resistance and Atherosclerosis. You can read the whole article for free.

http://circres.ahajournals.org/content/ ... 6.abstract

 

[xyzzy]

Are there any 'tell tale signs' that point to either an insulin resistance problem or just a total lack of insulin produced by the pancreas as I'm not sure which one applies to me.

Well I would say in most Type 2's their is usually a link between insulin resistance and being overweight. Whether or not insulin resistance is the cause of being overweight or visa versa is not the issue.

Did you ever get the LADA (c-peptide and GAD) tests done Paul? I see you've dropped the "fat" out of your moniker and from your most recent posts you don't look over weight. That MAY explain why your BG's are still high after giving up the carbs if you are not producing enough insulin. Maybe its back to the doctor time.

 

[xyzzy]

Thought this was interesting.

Yes interesting stuff at a level I can cope with. Thanks Catherine

 

[Paul1976]

Thanks for the reply xyzzy,looking at what you wrote and my circumstances I'd say you are spot on.
I did ask my GP about the c-peptide and GAD antibody test but he told me that the endocrinologist when I see him on the 12th April at hospital would be the person to order those tests if he needed more information to determine what type diabetes I have.

 

[xyzzy]

Thanks for the reply xyzzy,looking at what you wrote and my circumstances I'd say you are spot on.
I did ask my GP about the c-peptide and GAD antibody test but he told me that the endocrinologist when I see him on the 12th April at hospital would be the person to order those tests if he needed more information to determine what type diabetes I have.

No problem Paul. Just keep healthy till then not too many days left to go and then things should start to get sorted for you. Try not to worry!

 

[Paul1976]

Thanks!! :wink:

 

[Defren]

Mi 'ead 'urts......... :crazy: :***: :***:

Mine too! :crazy:

The "Noddy" way I understand it - probably culled from 'populist' writers, I admit, - is:

Insulin resistance happens when the receptor cells on the muscle cells 'resist' the activity of insulin - ie, stop accepting as much glucose from the bloodstream. The pancreas pumps out even more insulin in an attempt to get that glucose out of the blood. The muscles cells still aren't playing, and the blood glucose is still high, so the insulin (or something!) converts the glucose into fats, mainly triglycerides, and stuffs that into the fat cells. This results in an overworked pancreas, which leads to diabetes Type II.

It shows how insulin resistance can cause obesity.

Now, I know that is very simplistic, and definitely incomplete! It doesn't address how obesity causes insulin resistance. But it is at a suitable level for an idiiot (me. in this case :wink: ) and I'd be grateful if anyone can tell me that it's even a little bit correct.

Viv 8)

Me too Viv and Grazer. Your age three appropriate description I get Viv - thank you. While I am sure Phoenix' description is clear and concise, it's just capable of causing me a headache (no offence Phoenix, it's just simply way above me). The question I would still like answered is; are all T2 diabetics, insulin resistant, and will we all at some point end up on insulin? If not, what is the mechanism that makes some T2's need insulin and not others?

 

[Pneu]

Me too Viv and Grazer. Your age three appropriate description I get Viv - thank you. While I am sure Phoenix' description is clear and concise, it's just capable of causing me a headache (no offence Phoenix, it's just simply way above me). The question I would still like answered is; are all T2 diabetics, insulin resistant, and will we all at some point end up on insulin? If not, what is the mechanism that makes some T2's need insulin and not others?

As a type II diabetic you will have a degree of insulin resistance but also if you went undiagnosed for sometime (like most type II's) then a degree of degradation in pancreas function. The beta cells in your pancreas that produce insulin are damaged by high-blood glucose... consistent high blood glucose will actually destroy the cells... causing your pancreas to become less efficient...

So as an individual you have a level of insulin resistance and a level of pancreas function... now if your pancreas function is low then it doesn't matter how much you reduce your carbohydrate or insulin resistance then in all likelihood you will need additional insulin as you just don't produce enough... this is similar to a type I (although the cause is different)..

Most type II's are somewhere in the middle... whereby they can reduce their insulin resistance (weight loss, increased exercise, medication, etc....) and reduce the amount of carbohydrate they eat and achieve a level of balance... If you are very lucky and diagnosed early then just by simply reducing your insulin resistance (i.e. increased exercise, weight loss) you may be able to resume a more 'normal' diet... these people are often refereed to as 'pre-diabetic'.

Now from people's experiences on here if you follow the standard NHS route then you never really reduce your blood glucose enough to stop the degradation in pancreas function... this leads to increased medication... which works for a while until pancreas function further declines... and the individual eventually ends up on insulin because they can't produce enough of their own.. Hence why some would have you believe type II is 'progressive'... clearly this isn't the case and you can be aggressive in your blood glucose management by not solely relying on medications and using means such as carbohydrate control to achieve better blood glucose... the benefit of this is that you are then ensuring that you retain what pancreas function you have.. as your insulin resistance then reduces through your regime of diet and exercise you may well find you can then increase the carbohydrate you consume.. or achieve even better blood glucose control.

 

[Defren]

Me too Viv and Grazer. Your age three appropriate description I get Viv - thank you. While I am sure Phoenix' description is clear and concise, it's just capable of causing me a headache (no offence Phoenix, it's just simply way above me). The question I would still like answered is; are all T2 diabetics, insulin resistant, and will we all at some point end up on insulin? If not, what is the mechanism that makes some T2's need insulin and not others?

As a type II diabetic you will have a degree of insulin resistance but also if you went undiagnosed for sometime (like most type II's) then a degree of degradation in pancreas function. The beta cells in your pancreas that produce insulin are damaged by high-blood glucose... consistent high blood glucose will actually destroy the cells... causing your pancreas to become less efficient...

So as an individual you have a level of insulin resistance and a level of pancreas function... now if your pancreas function is low then it doesn't matter how much you reduce your carbohydrate or insulin resistance then in all likelihood you will need additional insulin as you just don't produce enough... this is similar to a type I (although the cause is different)..

Most type II's are somewhere in the middle... whereby they can reduce their insulin resistance (weight loss, increased exercise, medication, etc....) and reduce the amount of carbohydrate they eat and achieve a level of balance... If you are very lucky and diagnosed early then just by simply reducing your insulin resistance (i.e. increased exercise, weight loss) you may be able to resume a more 'normal' diet... these people are often refereed to as 'pre-diabetic'.

Now from people's experiences on here if you follow the standard NHS route then you never really reduce your blood glucose enough to stop the degradation in pancreas function... this leads to increased medication... which works for a while until pancreas function further declines... and the individual eventually ends up on insulin because they can't produce enough of their own.. Hence why some would have you believe type II is 'progressive'... clearly this isn't the case and you can be aggressive in your blood glucose management by not solely relying on medications and using means such as carbohydrate control to achieve better blood glucose... the benefit of this is that you are then ensuring that you retain what pancreas function you have.. as your insulin resistance then reduces through your regime of diet and exercise you may well find you can then increase the carbohydrate you consume.. or achieve even better blood glucose control.

Thank you, I understood that perfectly. I am convinced I was diabetic for around 4-5 years before diagnosis. I began the symptoms of nuropathy around that time, and it has continued to progress. Many symptoms that I was being unsuccessfully treated for are now beginning to ease, or clear up. If I am right, and it has been this long, then my pancreas will not be in an exceptionally healthy state, will it? As I began to low carb the day I was diagnosed, I know this will stop or at least rapidly slow down any further deterioration. Would a Doctor be able to tell me the state of my pancreas by a blood test.

 

[xyzzy]

Would a Doctor be able to tell me the state of my pancreas by a blood test.

Yes there is an insulin resistance test but you will probably have to shout really loudly at the doctor to get it done because of cost.

 

[Defren]

Would a Doctor be able to tell me the state of my pancreas by a blood test.

Yes there is an insulin resistance test but you will probably have to shout really loudly at the doctor to get it done because of cost.

Ahh a challenge? I do like a challenge