Is A Low Carb/Low Fat Diet Viable?

Wrunkelt said:

This question is easily resolved with some simple arithmetic. Using the following notation let:

C denote the number of gm of carbohydrates eaten per day
F denote the number of gm of fat eaten per day
P denote the number of gm of protein eaten per day
K denote the number of calories generated per day

It is known that:

1 gram of carbohydrates generates approximately 4 calories
1 gram of fat generates approximately 9 calories
1 gram of protein generates approximately 4 calories

Therefore

K = 4C + 9F + 4P

To maintain stable weight an average adult male requires approximately 2500 calories per day.

Consider first a diet with 281, 70 and 187 gm per day of carbohydrate, fat and protein respectively.

K = 4*281 + 9*70 + 4*187 = 2502 calories per day.

Consider now a low carb/low fat diet reducing the carbohydrate to 60 gm, reducing the fat to 30 gm and keeping the protein at 187 gm.

K = 4*60 + 9*30 + 4*187 = 1258 calories per day.

It is clear that such a diet is not viable in the long term. If the carbohydrate and fat were to be held at these levels then a little arithmetic shows that the protein would have to be increased to approximately 498 gm per day to meet the daily calorie requirement.

Click to expand...

Your two examples are for:

1) "high-carb + low-fat" for an "average adult male", assuming a non-diabetic male I take it.

2) a "Low-carb-low-fat" diet which I am assuming is both for diabetics as for non-diabetics.

Can you please give us another example for a low-carb and high-fat diet? I ask because your example (1) is not really advised for any diabetic with the high amount of carbs.

Come on now....low carbs/low fats....end this now.......

Why not just try eating to what suits the indiviidual without balances of mathematics, formulas and everything else in it....this is of no interest to the majority who just want to eat and exercise to a healthy regime.....

Our bodies get out of sync just through the modern lifestyles....please forget all this **** about low carb/low fat and concentrate on helping people to find what is best for them and giving encouragement without all this **** that is happening.....

It is up to individuals if they want to take advice about what has worked for others and to try it for themselves...whether it is low fat or low carb, atkins etc, etc.......

Lets go back to helping people without all this......wrunkelt I don't know (and to be honest-don't care) about your figures that you have decided to quote from somewhere.....this forum used to be about helping people...and you are disrupting it...I don't know you, but this posting means nothing as far as I am concerned and of no interest....we used to go on our experiences and what recipes help etc and gardening and helping people with pump control etc....you are diverting everything away from this...please can you consider that we are NOT all interested in low carbs/low fats etc...some of us come on this forum to find friends and to help people with their pumps etc.....

Well said, DD!

We're here to help and be helped, learn things and make friends - and reassure genuine newbies that there is life after diabetes, and that MOST of us are quite nice people, really . . .

We're all individuals, different things suit different people, and we don't need all this nit-picking and sniping.

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination . . .

Viv 8)

Wrunkelt, I also note, that you only seem to be contributing your penny worth in to articles ref low carb/low fat....and this makes me wonder just what is behind your postings....like I said I don't know you, I have never come across your user name before....but I am very wary of reading anything about what you are posting...becuase you do not seem to be educated in diabetes and living with it to assist others.....

Life is about helping people.....not statistics and figures......

Donnellysdogs I must say thay I find posts sich as this one by Wrunkelt absolutely fascinating. I am following a low carb diet and want to learn as much as I can.
I have devised my own eating plan so that I do not feel that I am missing out on any foods that I enjoy.
I have posted here and was shot down from the very start so please do not misunderstand I DO NOT WANT TO TRY TO FORCE OR BULLY ANYONE INTO LOW CARBING.
I keep an open mind and also accept others no matter bow they control their condition. In teturn all I ask is that I am accepted too.
Regards
MM

Well said Donnellysdogs!

Nigel

Yes, but Minimole....

The majority of, whether newbies or oldies are there to debate from experiences...and the occasional facts and figures added in if they are relevent.

The majority of us also contribute from our experiences with empathy and knowledge that we have gained from our experiences.....or we are wanting to know from other members what has worked from the point of views and their live's...

I contribute toward type 1's, type 2's and pumpers, gardeners and anybody that I can lend a bit of experience to that I have learnt...not JUST low carbing....

I really am concerned if anybodys contributions on this forum just lend themselves to one aspect...for example...sparkles....wow..yes, he or she (Sorry sparkles!!!) is interested in low carbing.....but also has a wealth of knowledge on gardening!!!!!....Bowelll....has a contribution to every aspect of diabetes...sorry...BOwell and Sparkles for mentioning you personally but I think you two have contributed immensely towards my enjoyment of this forum......

I appreciate that people have an interest in low carb/low fat diets, and informing us how well they are doing...what works and what doesn't etc......but for me personally this asking whether a low carb /low fat diet is viable is for a person to decide for themselves.....for them to try...if we are going to get epople with experiences telling us what works and doesn't work for them, I will enjoy it...but the first 2 comments on this posting are really over my head!!!!

I always find your posts interesting DD but it is probably better to just ignore posts which don't interest you.
Some folk are interested in the science and minutiae of everything whatever the subject.
Boring to mos of us who aren't but not worth making an issue of even if the poster has his/her own agenda.

It is highly unlikely tht anyone new will be right into all that stuff. It is unlikely to help new posters but you and the others have and comntinue to do so.

its not worth worrying about.

Oh dear Wrunkelts explanation made it look very complicated !

CALCULATION PROTEIN, FAT AND CARBOHYDRATE INTAKES - UK STANDARDS!
Protein = 12 -15% Calories ( 4 CALS/G)
Fat = 30 -35% Calories (9 CALS/G)
CHO = 50% Calories (4 CALS/G)


So for the "norm" 1000 calories would look as 37.5 g Protein, 38.8g Fat and 125g CHO. That is low in protein and fat but in practice pts can follow it but we do not tend to go as low as this any more. I don't know if wrunk has any experience of this with actual people! It may require supplementation depending how you plan this out and which foods are used.

If you changed it to 50 g CHO it would change the protein and fat levels.

Based on 20% CHO. 20% protein and 60% fat it would give you
50g Protein, 66g Fat and 50g CHO.

You would then need to determine what portions of foods would supply this! For portion sizes I would suggest the FSA Standard Food Portions ( published by FSA formerly HMSO)

Hope that makes sense . It is easy when you have done it a million times!

Allyx

Hiya all, gordon bennett!!! All this **** is beyond me... :evil: Will be sticking with simple knowing what works for me n leave what dosent well alone! All I do know is what does n dosent suit me n my body,digestive system,health, blood sugar levels. Am NOT a sheep and dont do what rest say or do. Best to remain individual n accept all types of diabetics and their chosen diets n ways to live with this disease. Remember diabetes never sleeps nor gives us a holiday - its our own journey n responsibilty to cope n endure it through both good n bad times. Not to become professors or geniuses in mathematical equations!!!! gawd strewth.... sigh.... Anna.x

Well put Donnellysdogs

I have to agree, I don't have a clue what carbs are in what, apart from the Bergen bread ( cos some one on here told me :wink: ), but I have managed to get my bg's down to 6's, sometimes 5's, and just eat what I feel is ok with me if I try something new, I'll test, apart from that I'm enjoying my salads, and the occasional spud, so don't really take any notice of all this garfumph, about numbers, fats etc...

Trand

Good for you....it's finding what works for you as an individual...and you have found it without all this stuff that is too me, all OTT...

Glad you are one of the many, many , many of us that live well and get good hba1c's without all the 'stuff' listed...this posting in particular has really gone over my head...if I had to analyse everything I ate...where would the enjoyment and living be!!!! I would be spending all my life writing shopping lists from packaging, and spending the majority of my life in the supermarket anyalysing labels etc......

Best fun for me is....growing your own, eating your own.....no labels, fresh and healthy.....from garden to plate within 30 minutes....what could be better????

DD, if I had to anylise all I ate, it would drive me :roll: mad, unless you are completely mod edit: could be taken as offensive surely most of us know that carbs , break down to sugar I also have no understanding of the charts on packaging , and most of the time don't have my reading glasses with me, I too have a bit of stuff in the garden ( how do I get rid of leaf curl on my plum tree?, its not b/fly) and today I'm gonner blitz some strawbs, and add clotted cream, :wink:

When considering the low-fat low-carb diet I believe for most people, it is impossible for an active person in the long term. I have proved this for myself. When I started low carbing and back in those days three years ago, I had no understanding of healthy fats, I was on a low carb low fat diet of around 1300-1500 calories a day. Like so many I believed that fats were dangerous and to be feared. My BG numbers fell to non diabetic within days and the weight started to fall off at the rate of around 20 lbs per month. Great what more could I want. The problem came around the forth month. I had gone from a 40” waist to 32” lost over 50lbs fantastic, but my weight kept dropping. I was beginning to look very ill, friends and family wanted to know was it the diabetes that was making ill, one friend asked did I have cancer. I was facing a huge dilemma.

I wanted to stay low carbing, my HbA1c had gone from 12 to 5.4 within three months. My second full bloods tests after three months of diagnoses showed not only a huge reduction in HbA1c but improvement in almost every other area. My Doctor was totally amazed at the changes, (it was beyond his experience) I had made in such a short time. After some thought and a little research I realised I had to turn to fats. I was still eating the same protein I had ate all my life and did not want to start eating huge amounts of protein to increase the calories I needed to maintain a good weight.

I discovered there was good fats and dangerous fats. That much of the processed food I had used before low carbing contained trans fats and other ingredients that were unhealthy. I learned the fats in natural foods such as avocado, olives, nuts, seeds, butter and cream were safe and in fact fat in the diet is essential. I did not go over the top with fats I did not need to. I now know that fat has over twice the calories as carbs and protein and it was easy with some tweaking here and there to get back to a food intake that controlled my diabetes and my weight. Three years on I have never had a HbA1c out of the fives and I am happy with my weight. I use around 2300-2500 calories a day. I live a very active life, some days working over 10 hours. I appreciate others for various reasons do not require my level of calories. The attached link may be useful for members.


http://www.positivehealthsteps.com/calories/daily-required.shtml

Thanks Janet, at last a breath of sanity. I'm glad your common sense approach paid off. I've had similar results.

Ray

Hi Wrunkelt,

The problem I have is that you start with a post in question format and then proceed to tell us the answer. Which I think in your estimation was No.

So my question to you is this:
If a low carb -low fat diet is not viable… (and I’m sure others will come along who will dispute your findings and conclusions as is the nature of things….) Then what?

What do you want people to do with that information you have given them? And more importantly why?

I would just be interested in what motivates you?

Millimole… yes different people are interested in diverse things… that’s ok generally isn’t it.
As I’ve said before though… personally I’m a bit lazy. I’m not versed in nutrition and while I like maths… I tended to jump to Wrunkelds's conclusion without following his or her argument through… Perhaps one day I’ll be more knowledgeable, interested and have the necessary patience to return and wade. And its great pn my opinion if this thread can sit here and even grow so that I can return to it if and when I choose. Who knows… I may. It might be the in-topic next year!!

But at the moment. I’m with DD and the others… just today, I prefer to smell the flowers. There is a life, all be it ‘with diabetes,’ outside of the diabetes umberella and its a life thats good for us. (DD the suns out in N yorks today - garden thread soon!) I totally agree with you unbeliever… live and let live. There’s room for Wrunkelt and Mm and all others who like to explore this idea. That’s no shortage of space here. I think

I am interested though Wrunkelt in the answer to my question “What do you want people to do with this information and what do you feel motivates you“… and look forward to your reply.

Sparkles.