1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2019 »
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Prediabetes Is anyone following a diet that isn’t low carb?

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Hooty, May 24, 2019.

  1. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Anyone who is losing weight will be burning some ketones. That’s the result of oxidising stored body fat. Those numbers shown above indicate that the subjects were still predominantly sugar burners. Certainly not what I’d call ketogenic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,772
    Likes Received:
    10,233
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Thats just the old rubbish graphic from Phinney.. If you are registering ketones you have to be in ketosis.. its the very definition of the state?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,533
    Likes Received:
    30,266
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Why have ketones been mentioned at all in relation to very low calorie diets? It matters not, in my opinion. People on around 50g of carbs are not usually in dietary ketosis. The carbs need to be lower than that. But 50g carbs is low carb. I still maintain that the ND and similar are low carb by the very nature of the very low calories. If the carbs are high on a daily basis, the protein and fat content must be far too low nutritionally speaking.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I still believe some will enter ketosis at a higher level of carbs than others. If that is true there would be a band of low carb levels over which some would and some would not go into ketosis.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Trophy Points:
    198
    http://www.fitbit.com/foods/Optifast+Shake/444987
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,772
    Likes Received:
    10,233
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I reckon that being in ketosis is one reason why ND works even if it is through starvation rather than nutrition.
    Bit like the old document I used to have where Guys and Thomas' wanted all their pre bariatric surgery patients to get into ketosis before their ops..to "shrink the liver" i.e. start the process of reversing NAFLD before their operation.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    #66 bulkbiker, May 26, 2019 at 5:36 PM
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  7. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Trophy Points:
    198
    By your reckoning all participants were already in ketosis at baseline, i.e. before they started the diet. This does not make sense to me. but there is likelyhood that many participants had been following a weight loss plan before they started ND. and so would show the evidence as Jim Lahey points out. The main thing is that the diet hardly touched the levels even after 2 years, and show no evidence of diet induced ketosis. Anyway, these diets are NOT being marketed as LC, and no claims for that or ketosis are being made. Thus the OP has an answer that may help them. There are other alternatives too that could be used for bgl control which we have not discussed,
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,772
    Likes Received:
    10,233
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Sounds like you're back to normal...welcome home... x
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,533
    Likes Received:
    30,266
    Trophy Points:
    298
    So, that is 20g carbs per serving. 3 servings a day = 60g (Assuming 3 servings is the recommended amount.)

    I agree that some will, but most don't according to reports on this forum. From what I have read up to around 30g is the band, but some will be able to go above that. As with everything else, one size does not fit all. I cannot speak from experience because I have never felt the need to check my ketones and have no idea whether I am in or out, but I did lose all my weight on carbs ranging from about 100g at the start to around 60g by the time I reached my target weight, and my visceral fat measurement was 6. I then dropped to about 30g carbs, maintained my weight, and after 4 and a half years my visceral fat remains at 6. (very occasionally it has been 5). Sadly, I don't know what it was before diagnosis but I did have a large spare tyre!
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  10. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Trophy Points:
    198
    3 sachets = 480 calories. Bit low for ND,
     
  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,772
    Likes Received:
    10,233
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Don't forget the stir fry veg though...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Yes and low carb for some is higher than for others. So to talk in terms of fixed bands isn’t really appropriate.

    I had been developing a spare tyre but it is almost gone now. Amazing.
     
  13. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

    Messages:
    24,533
    Likes Received:
    30,266
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Low carb is defined at up to 130g, so there is a fixed band. Within that fixed band are very low carb and moderate low carb.

    Have you considered some bathroom scales that also measure visceral fat, body fat and other things in addition to weight?

    Sorry folks, derailing again.
     
  14. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Trophy Points:
    178
    With reference to the opening post, low carbing is not a fixed number. So 130 might be the designated number by those that set the “classes” or dividing lines, but 130 for some would be a lot lower than for others.

    I weigh myself at the surgery scales with regularity. The numbers are going down at 2kg per month. Either that or the scales are knackered. My belt is having to go down a notch month in month out and I nearly lost my wedding ring today as it slipped off my finger. My BMI is not too far from normal now (normal as in the fixed version used by the NHS).

    I spotted one of those sets of scales at the other surgery Friday, so I might use them next.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    #74 Listlad, May 26, 2019 at 6:37 PM
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  15. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,806
    Likes Received:
    1,570
    Trophy Points:
    178
    On the advice (incessent nagging) of my then DN, I tried the Eatwell low fat diet for 6 months and it did not have a beneficial effect on my diabetes, so it was of no benefit to me. I went back on the lowish carb (around 100g a day) medium fat diet and got back to normal levels again within weeks. I was not as confident then and got swayed by the 'experts'
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    2,730
    Trophy Points:
    178
    In my opinion, the only way to get reliably into “ketosis” - where ketone bodies are the primary fuel source - is to reduce circulating insulin to baseline. By whatever means, but by implication through not consuming insulinogenic foods. To me, the body producing a tiny amount of ketones is indicative of losing weight (burning fat) which is not necessarily the same thing as dietary ketosis. Metabolically flexible people should be able to produce ketones every night.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,302
    Likes Received:
    1,672
    Trophy Points:
    178
    That reminds me. That is what I first tried, for the same reason. It worked but only up to a certain point. After that it stopped. I had to find a way to bring my blood glucose down further and Eatwell did not do that.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    388
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Great discussion,learning,THANK YOU!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Other · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    2,845
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I hope that, as the OP, you have found information that can help you answer your question. There is a very good section on diets on the Forum that can supply detail, but from what I have read here, most of the main contenders for supporting T2D have been discussed here. LC is actually an easy way to go, so do not fear it. It works well for many, me included, and I am so glad I found this website and joined in. In the words of the Commons parlance I commend this statement to the House.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Agree Agree x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook