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Is control easier with insulin?

Discussion in 'Type 2 with Insulin' started by ClareBearJ, Mar 23, 2019.

  1. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My highest reading after diagnosis was around 419 mg/dl ~ 23 mmol/L. We are all different, but for me, no medication, no insulin, no exercise...just carbs reduction. So that is something to consider...should carbs reduction be the last resort?

    upload_2019-6-11_15-37-52.png
     
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  2. poemagraphic

    poemagraphic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nice answer, thank you.
    Whilst I was taking insulin I had a few low readings (actually almost every day) However I did not 'feel' any different.
    It must be quite hard for people who have little or no awareness or obvious symptoms that they are going that low.
    It was only because of my constant testing throughout the day that I was aware.

    Getting back to the title of the thread. For me it was far easier whilst I was on insulin to keep my BG numbers low without a doubt. However I was never going to feel 'I' was in control. Which is why I was so determined to reduce my Carbohydrate intake and see how I could reduce the insulin dose. Eventually I was told to stop taking insulin by my diabetic specialist, who was amazed at how my numbers had reduced in such a short space of time.
     
  3. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    If I had to be 5 to drive, I'd only be able to drive for the total of a couple of hours a day, after a decent meal, with some carbs (albeit modest quantities).

    No meds, ever. Aics under 30.
     
  4. poemagraphic

    poemagraphic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Do you feel at times sorry for those who have such a struggle to keep their numbers low, or those who just are unable to get in to single figures for whatever reason?

    Whilst on a visit to the DN last month for my first insulin awareness day a lady asked me why I was even there. I had just handed my log to the nurse who said she was pleased with my current numbers. The nurse then went to this lady and said "I am unhappy that you keep having readings over 17" Well I don't suppose she was too pleased either. Hence her retort to me when the nurse said my numbers were good (I was averaging 6.2).

    My A1c used to be over 100.
     
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  5. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    Well, I started at 73, so hardly borderline or the like.

    For those who struggle and struggle, and are doing their best, I feel for them, and often wish there was more I/we could do to improve their lot, but provided I am doing my best for me, and helping those I can, I have to be content.

    Don't get carried away thinking because I, or anyone else for that matter who now has great numbers has just found it all a walk in the park. All it means is we have each walked our own version of the hard yards.
     
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  6. Derbysocks

    Derbysocks Type 2 · Active Member

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    I don’t find it any easier to keep my bg reading under control with insulin. You normally only get free meters & test strips if you are on insulin if you are a type 2 who has normally high bg. Like you I normally have high bg reading & never had a hypo in the 13 years I was using gliclazide. I am using insulin for the last year & a half and I have slightly better control of my bg. As soon as I started with insulin I was given a meter and test strips, which I get on prescription. You should never have to pay for your own test strips & unless you are likely to get a hypo you have no real need to test. You dn should be testing you every 3 months until you get it under control. You need to take their advice. There are thing to try before insulin like Victoza,
    Empalifiozin etc.
    Even on insulin you will still be taking pills also.
    I take
    Amlodipine 10mg x1
    Atorvastatin 20mg x1
    Empalifiozin 10mg x1
    Indapamide 2.5mg tablets x1
    Lisinopril 20mg x1
    Sukarno SR 1000mg x2
    Basal insulin 24 units in the morning & 22 units at nigh.

    Until recently I was also taking 2 gliclazide a day. When I was taken of them my control went out the window which is why my insulin has been increased and split. Better you control your eating & stay on just pills.
     
  7. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sure, unless you’re also concerned about Hypo’s evil twin, Hyper. The one that also kills but takes longer ;)
     
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  8. Mel dCP

    Mel dCP Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    @Derbysocks - if you are on insulin then you need to test. Otherwise how will you know if your dose is right? You could be running dangerously low at night and sleep through it, and worryingly high during the day - and your three monthly HbA1c could come out as normal. Insulin is a dangerous drug that needs constant monitoring.

    It’s like driving a car without a speedo and only knowing you have a problem when the speeding fine lands on your doormat.
     
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  9. Fenn

    Fenn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes!

    For me anyway, its been very helpful, my control is very good or at least very good compared to very bad before the insulin, nothing was working for me so I am where I am and happy to be.

    Is it bad for a T2 to take insulin? Maybe, is it bad for my bg to be silly high all the time? Definately! So I take it and hope for the best.

    LCHF is terrific if you can get control that way, I would highly recommend it, worked for me for a lot of years, I did however have to eat extremely low carb and found that difficult long term, so now I eat low carb mostly

    I do feel like a failure, especially reading this forum lol, but heyho, my bloods are very good, I am lucky I only need 20 units basal a day and novo to suit what I eat, generally between 6 -12 units, the control it gives me is incredible, its like choosing what number I want to be, hypos suck so I work quite hard to avoid them.

    Whatever you end up doing, best of luck


    EDit... i self fund freestyle libre, this has been a godsend, I never finger prick test any more, highly recommend if you can afford it, even if just for a little while, its an eye opener
     
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  10. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    By your own admission low carb worked for some time. Without it you may have been on insulin many years earlier. No one can predict what course our individual diabetes make take in the future. We each do what we can right now and reassess as things change. Sure many of us prefer - when we can - to take no or fewer meds but that’s not always an option. As you rightly say being healthy is the goal, the method varies.

    Low carb ran its course as the sole means of control so you took steps to regain control. Where’s the failure in that?
     
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  11. Fenn

    Fenn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.

    Insulin is demonised, im sure this is understandable, its all good, my children are going through exams at school, I repeatedly say “just do your best, no one can ask any more of you” well ive done my best, so if I am a failure I am at peace with it hehe.
     
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  12. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Even on insulin control can be complicated. The old fashioned exercise and reduced eating can really compliment insulin treatment, for better control.
    Insulin doesn't normalise my bgs without considerable hard work with my restricted mobility.
    Although without insulin I'd be in hell for sure.
     
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  13. Keith_Simpson

    Keith_Simpson Type 2 · Active Member

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    I am type 2 & managed to persuade my GP to prescribe insulin which does make control direct & so is far better than other medication but it also meant I could get test strips prescribed. You can of course buy test strips over the counter but the NHS should prescribe at least some for type 2 patients. It is only by testing can type 2 patients challenge assumptions made about us based on their Hba1c test.
     
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  14. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    Fenn - I don't believe insulin is demonised, but I do firmly stand with trying other things before resorting to insulin, for T2s, as quite regularly it can lead to weight gain - especially where mixed insulins and/or fixed doses are prescribed. The need to eat a set level of carbs per meal, day in day out is just as wearing as constantly swerving carbs for some folks.

    Insulin is also a very hard tether to the pharmacy and supplies, which can oftentimes be avoided, particularly by those near the beginning of their time with T2 diabetes.

    Personally, I would like to avoid insulin forever, if I can, but if the time comes where my body or my circumstances change, rendering that a foolhardy stance, I will accept exogenous insulin.
     
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  15. poemagraphic

    poemagraphic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Mmmm... My DN told me on our first appointment never go to bed if your BG is under 8.
    I have sat up eating a banana, I have sat up eating 1, then 2, then 3 jelly babies. I have sat up eating 3 Rich Tea biscuits waiting to get my levels above 8 before going to bed in case I die in my sleep of a hypo!

    I wish I was kidding (as those who know me know I do)

    I posted on the forum and decided that 'she' was flat out wrong.
    I would take my insulin as instructed, be doing well at around 5-6 dropping below 5 even... then scoff till they got above 8. A couple of nights at the start of my injecting it was gone 3 am in the morning before I went to bed.
    This is the guidance she is giving to all who she sees in her normal working day!!!

    She also told me to consume around 60g of carbohydrate per meal.
    Well that might work for some people I guess.
    For me within a week of joining up here and spending hours reading others posts, and watching video links and reading countless articles of the benefits of a low carbohydrate diet.
    I went to bed under 6 most nights and was eating less and less carbs and injecting less and less insulin to prevent me going hypo every day.

    In the last three months I have stopped injecting insulin altogether and also now stopped taking Glicaside.

    I now consume around 30g of carbs a day, and feel better than I have felt for over 20 years.
    My DN would now just be taking my bloods for the first time after my first 3mts.

    My levels would perhaps have increased and my insulin dose would have been increased also. Plus more Glic and who knows what else... Statins next (I was told I must take them, guess what I said, answers on a postage stamp to potheguywhoignoredthedn.


    I was testing 10 times a day, every day, I still test often to see what effect different foods have and the time scale of those effects.

    All I can say is I am glad I DID NOT follow the advice of my diabetic nurse.
    Po
     
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    #35 poemagraphic, Jun 12, 2019 at 3:40 PM
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  16. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    If you are taking insulin or glicazide this is always a risk.
     
  17. poemagraphic

    poemagraphic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It is a very real risk.
    I posted above a comment that may have seemed flippant regarding hypos...

    However

    I can not find one single death ever being recorded, attributed to a Type 2 on insulin dying in their sleep as a direct result of hypoglycemic reaction.
     
  18. Fenn

    Fenn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    :banghead:
     
  19. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it’s “resorting” to insulin because it is a more heavy duty drug in regards to the effect it has on a person, the higher burden of self care required, the potential and severity of errors, in a type 2 the potential for simultaneously helping and hindering glucose management and insulin resistance, side effects such as weight gain. Long term complications are not necessarily lower despite improved glucose levels, possibly due to the continued existence of hyperinsulimea.

    There are many other approaches including other medications and combinations out there too. Many of these medicines will share some of the drawbacks listed above. Now obviously these will not suit everyone for a wide variety of reasons from side effects to life choices.

    Any choices, made knowledgeably, should totally be respected. Any made in ignorance deserve education.

    For some genuine type 2 (I deliberately exclude other types along with those others misdiagnosed as type 2 when they arent) it is the best or only option having considered the alternatives. But there is no getting away from the fact it is widely seen as the ultimate and end of the line medication treatment for diabetes. In common language this is a position often termed “resorted” to. That is not the same as demonisation.
     
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  20. Mel dCP

    Mel dCP Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Good grief! I won't go to bed if it’s that high!
     
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