Is it the size of the spike or the number after 1 or 2 hours?

[beatdise]

Hi all. I have been sharing my numbers almost weekly to give encouragement to others but also to get feedbcak on how I am doing.I have focused largely in getting my two hour numbers down, However, in my spreadsheet I have these 3 numbers to remind me of really where I want to be.

NORMAL Fasting 5.5 1 hour 7.8 2hrs 6.6

My current average of all tests done since diagnosis is 6.2

I am ok with my 5.5 number. I am even ok with my 6.6 number. This all depends on what I have eaten. My one hour numbers when I have a higher carb factor on a few occassions has gone to 10. but always gets down to below 7.8 after 2 hours Sometimes I will eat something that is flour based with my curry as well as salads etc. that has a major impact. I am cutting down portions but wonder is it important to do that to get absolute normal numbers.or should I ignore the odd random 1 hour spike. I do not test my 1 hour number that often because the general advice seems to focus on the 2 hour numbers. Comments,advice, observations WELCOME.

 

[beatdise]

Hi all. I have been sharing my numbers almost weekly to give encouragement to others but also to get feedbcak on how I am doing.I have focused largely in getting my two hour numbers down, However, in my spreadsheet I have these 3 numbers to remind me of really where I want to be.

NORMAL Fasting 5.5 1 hour 7.8 2hrs 6.6

My current average of all tests done since diagnosis is 6.2

I am ok with my 5.5 number. I am even ok with my 6.6 number. This all depends on what I have eaten. My one hour numbers when I have a higher carb factor on a few occassions has gone to 10. but always gets down to below 7.8 after 2 hours Sometimes I will eat something that is flour based with my curry as well as salads etc. that has a major impact. I am cutting down portions but wonder is it important to do that to get absolute normal numbers.or should I ignore the odd random 1 hour spike. I do not test my 1 hour number that often because the general advice seems to focus on the 2 hour numbers. Comments,advice, observations WELCOME.

PS I am sure if added in my 1 hour numbers the average would be much higher!

 

[IanD]

PS I am sure if added in my 1 hour numbers the average would be much higher!

That could be a problem - I believe it was with me with the DUK/NHS diet. HbA1c & 2 hour BGs were acceptable, but complications became crippling. Occasional tests on porridge & cereal show a one hour spike in the mid-teens, so I suspect that the highs were doing the damage, while the lows were keeping the HbA1c in range.

Switching to low carb, increased fat reduced the HbA1c slightly, but reduced the one-hour spikes greatly - & cleared the complications.

 

[CollieBoy]

My current average of all tests done since diagnosis is 6.2

I am ok with my 5.5 number. I am even ok with my 6.6 number. This all depends on what I have eaten. My one hour numbers when I have a higher carb factor on a few occassions has gone to 10. but always gets down to below 7.8 after 2 hours Sometimes I will eat something that is flour based with my curry as well as salads etc. that has a major impact. I am cutting down portions but wonder is it important to do that to get absolute normal numbers.or should I ignore the odd random 1 hour spike. I do not test my 1 hour number that often because the general advice seems to focus on the 2 hour numbers. Comments,advice, observations WELCOME.

@beatdise
The way I look at it, everyone spikes D or not, so what I do is try to keep the spikes down, as much as possible.
the way I have tried to do this is to map the way I deal with various foods, and portion control those that produce high spikes!

 

[beatdise]

Yes some useful responses thank you Fergus and IanD. I have done a bit of googling and found the following;

"While some people still prefer to test one hour after starting a meal, most prefer to follow the guidelines. The best thinking in my view came from Helen, who wrote on a diabetes mailing list, "If I aim for pre-meal levels to occur an hour after eating, I chance going low two hours postprandial and for sure three hours postprandial. My blood glucose level tends to decline from hour two to hour three. Therefore I do not test one hour postprandial—there is nothing I would do with that information other than aggravate myself."

 

[Bluetit1802]

This is from this website

Normal and diabetic blood sugar ranges
For the majority of healthy individuals, normal blood sugar levels are as follows:

• Normal blood glucose level in humans is about 4 mM (4 mmol/L or 72 mg/dL)
• When operating normally the body restores blood sugar levels to a range of 4.4 to 6.1 mmol/L (82 to 110 mg/dL)
• Shortly after a meal the blood glucose level may rise temporarily up to 7.8 mmol/L (140 mg/dL)

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html

 

[Brunneria]

Have a read of the bloodsugar101 website (see link in my sig). The studies quoted there convinced me of the importance of keeping my BG under control at all times.

The actual goal figures vary according to different sources, but since I've been trying to keep my BG within the 'normal' range that @Bluetit1802 quoted, I have been feeling so much better!

Fell off the wagon a wee bit the last few days, and it really reminded me of how I used to feel all the time.

 

[daddys1]

Hi all. I have been sharing my numbers almost weekly to give encouragement to others but also to get feedbcak on how I am doing.I have focused largely in getting my two hour numbers down, However, in my spreadsheet I have these 3 numbers to remind me of really where I want to be.

NORMAL Fasting 5.5 1 hour 7.8 2hrs 6.6

My current average of all tests done since diagnosis is 6.2

I am ok with my 5.5 number. I am even ok with my 6.6 number. This all depends on what I have eaten. My one hour numbers when I have a higher carb factor on a few occasions has gone to 10. but always gets down to below 7.8 after 2 hours Sometimes I will eat something that is flour based with my curry as well as salads etc. that has a major impact. I am cutting down portions but wonder is it important to do that to get absolute normal numbers.or should I ignore the odd random 1 hour spike. I do not test my 1 hour number that often because the general advice seems to focus on the 2 hour numbers. Comments,advice, observations WELCOME.

Hi I'm pleased you brought this up. My averages for all 30days, unfortunately some very high spikes of 8.8 & 11.3s are not in my main meter, 5.6 average, which I am very pleased with. Fasting again is usually 5.1 again very pleased with. I am showing an average 6.0 post meal, at 2 hours.

I have just started logging 1hr as this is where all the spikes are, I may then get a true reflection of my averages over 30 days.

The link http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/16422495.php shows what the maximuns should be, worth having a look. I going to try and keep my increases 1hr after, limited to max 7.6 if I can, really do not want the big spikes above this.
Neil

 

[Bluetit1802]

As @Brunneria says, there is a lot of conflicting information out there as to what a "normal healthy non-diabetic" range is, which leads me to conclude there isn't really an answer. Everyone is different. Everyone has different base levels and therefore everyone's normal peak will be different. The research just shows an average desired maximum.

 

[beatdise]

Have a read of the bloodsugar101 website (see link in my sig). The studies quoted there convinced me of the importance of keeping my BG under control at all times.

The actual goal figures vary according to different sources, but since I've been trying to keep my BG within the 'normal' range that @Bluetit1802 quoted, I have been feeling so much better!

Fell off the wagon a wee bit the last few days, and it really reminded me of how I used to feel all the time.

Thanks @Brunerria and @Bluetit1802 Yes I can see that. No point in kidding myself I know I need to control a 10, it just doesn't feel right. Whilst I am discussing. I reported to my gp about 5 years ago that my left leg just collapsed on me 5 years ago playing football. It seemed like a one off but happened a few random times later. He suggseted a blood test and everything seemed fine. However, a sort of cold/hot feeeling continued down my leg from my thigh to my shin. Although it was never quite pins and needles. Since my BS numbers have come down my left leg is much more sensitive to BS spikes, whilst reducing overall the feeling of hot and colds is less frequent and when walking it seems stronger and more responsive now. I had given up on it thinking it was old age. Now I suspect it must be NEUROPATHY. Is it possible to improve something like that in the space of 6 weeks. It feels to me you can!

 

[AndBreathe]

I think you need to assess your volume under the bell curve - so that views the actual spike, length of spike and how long it takes to rise and come back down again. Only you can really get a handle on that, and it takes more than just the two tests to do it, so unless you're going for something like the Freestyle Libre, you need to be selectively testing every 15 minutes with certain foods.

All we really know about non-diabetics (gross generalisation alert here!!) is that they can pass the HbA1c, individual fasting tests and an OGTT; although for T2s, OGTT is now used infrequently. So, there's a lot of stuff going on there "we" never see, or get massive quantum of data on.

You're very early in your diabetes journey. I'd suggest you try going quite strictly to get your numbers well within non-D levels, then the secondary objective of trimming up. The storage of body fat appears key in how our bodies can deal with carbs/insulin, so stripping it out makes sense if we can.

I'm not suggesting you go down the Newcastle Diet route, necessarily, but I do thoroughly recommend a listen to Professor Taylor's latest presentation where he discusses both his initial, and subsequent studies. Had I known about it at the outset, I'm pretty certain I'd have wanted to give it a whirl.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

There are some studies that conclude nerve damage occurs whenever your blood sugar goes above 7.8:

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php

Personally, I strive to keep my levels below 7.8 at all times. I found my levels rise much more at breakfast than for later in the day for similar amounts of carbs.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Personally, I strive to keep my levels below 7.8 at all times. I found my levels rise much more at breakfast than for later in the day for similar amounts of carbs.

Me too. I have read that insulin resistance improves as the day progresses and our lowest readings are generally before our evening meal. That makes sense to me as it is what happens to me on a daily basis.

 

[beatdise]

I think you need to assess your volume under the bell curve - so that views the actual spike, length of spike and how long it takes to rise and come back down again. Only you can really get a handle on that, and it takes more than just the two tests to do it, so unless you're going for something like the Freestyle Libre, you need to be selectively testing every 15 minutes with certain foods.

All we really know about non-diabetics (gross generalisation alert here!!) is that they can pass the HbA1c, individual fasting tests and an OGTT; although for T2s, OGTT is now used infrequently. So, there's a lot of stuff going on there "we" never see, or get massive quantum of data on.

You're very early in your diabetes journey. I'd suggest you try going quite strictly to get your numbers well within non-D levels, then the secondary objective of trimming up. The storage of body fat appears key in how our bodies can deal with carbs/insulin, so stripping it out makes sense if we can.

I'm not suggesting you go down the Newcastle Diet route, necessarily, but I do thoroughly recommend a listen to Professor Taylor's latest presentation where he discusses both his initial, and subsequent studies. Had I known about it at the outset, I'm pretty certain I'd have wanted to give it a whirl.

Thanks @AndBreathe a lot of thinking and learning to do yet. I will have a look at Newcastle and see if I at is an option for me.

 

[Diamattic]

I have started noticing things like this as well, certain foods which have typically returned normal numbers 4 hours aftering eating, tend to give me acceptable numbers 2 hours after eating, but very high spikes 1 hours after eating.

My favorite cereal acts this way.. I will typically eat it with normal BS at 5, then testing at 2 hours gives me 7.5, and 4 hours gives me around 5 again. However the few times i have tested around 1 hours i found i got levels of 11!

I really think this has a lot to do with the glycemic index of the food, in this case my food seemed to be on the higher end digesting very quickly shooting my levels up and then the insulin slowly brought it back down.

Controlling spikes would really depend on when you took your insulin before eating, proper ratios and also the GI of the food so you can adjust the time you inject prior to the meal to account for those large spikes. This might mean either injecting 30-40 minutes before eating certain meals, or changing the meal to include more fats and high GI foods..

In a lot of cases when i see those 1 hour spikes i try to avoid that food in large quantities again (ie - no more large bowls of cereal lol only small ones, and maybe some toast and PB or eggs if I am still hungry)

Also i have found that caffeine really tends to keep my numbers high for some reason. Like i eat breakfast with a cup of coffee rather then having coffee a couple hours afterwards. Not sure why, but i try to avoid having caffeine around the same time as an injection.

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

I have started noticing things like this as well, certain foods which have typically returned normal numbers 4 hours aftering eating, tend to give me acceptable numbers 2 hours after eating, but very high spikes 1 hours after eating.

My favorite cereal acts this way.. I will typically eat it with normal BS at 5, then testing at 2 hours gives me 7.5, and 4 hours gives me around 5 again. However the few times i have tested around 1 hours i found i got levels of 11!

I really think this has a lot to do with the glycemic index of the food, in this case my food seemed to be on the higher end digesting very quickly shooting my levels up and then the insulin slowly brought it back down.

Controlling spikes would really depend on when you took your insulin before eating, proper ratios and also the GI of the food so you can adjust the time you inject prior to the meal to account for those large spikes. This might mean either injecting 30-40 minutes before eating certain meals, or changing the meal to include more fats and high GI foods..

In a lot of cases when i see those 1 hour spikes i try to avoid that food in large quantities again (ie - no more large bowls of cereal lol only small ones, and maybe some toast and PB or eggs if I am still hungry)

Also i have found that caffeine really tends to keep my numbers high for some reason. Like i eat breakfast with a cup of coffee rather then having coffee a couple hours afterwards. Not sure why, but i try to avoid having caffeine around the same time as an injection.

I gave up cereal for breakfast. Even All-Bran spiked my blood sugar above 8. The original poster is type 2 and not on insulin. I can only imagine how complicated it is to get insulin injections right since different foods have different affects on blood sugar.

 

[Diamattic]

NoCrbs4Me - Sorry i didn't know if OP was T1 or T2. Since my diagnosis i have been thinking about if i would rather be T2D, but i actually think you guys have it harder lol If our sugars go high we can at least take an injection to bring them down, i have no idea what you guys do lol

I think a lot of my post still applies as Glycemic index will effect your sugars just like mine, if you have low GI foods then it will raise your levels a smaller amount but keep them there longer, which is still a good thing.

If i was in your shoes i would probably eat multiple small meals each with less carbs, ie - 200g of carbs in 5 meals would be 40 grams each meal instead of 67, and might keep your sugars at a more manageable level.. Thats all i got lol Im out

 

[NoCrbs4Me]

NoCrbs4Me - Sorry i didn't know if OP was T1 or T2. Since my diagnosis i have been thinking about if i would rather be T2D, but i actually think you guys have it harder lol If our sugars go high we can at least take an injection to bring them down, i have no idea what you guys do lol

I think a lot of my post still applies as Glycemic index will effect your sugars just like mine, if you have low GI foods then it will raise your levels a smaller amount but keep them there longer, which is still a good thing.

If i was in your shoes i would probably eat multiple small meals each with less carbs, ie - 200g of carbs in 5 meals would be 40 grams each meal instead of 67, and might keep your sugars at a more manageable level.. Thats all i got lol Im out

I think you're right about the GI thing. A lot of us Type 2 diabetics just restrict carb intake to levels that we don't get spikes. I'm at around 50g of carbs a day. I eat about 4 times a day, but not much carbs at any meal.

 

[beatdise]

I think you're right about the GI thing. A lot of us Type 2 diabetics just restrict carb intake to levels that we don't get spikes. I'm at around 50g of carbs a day. I eat about 4 times a day, but not much carbs at any meal.

Yep. @NoCrbs4Me Low carbs minimises the risk and increasingly I am either reducing portion size or avoiding completely so my 1 hour spikes subside. I had turnips and a flatbread made of flour and chick pea flour yesterday and after 1 hour I was 8.2. I could almost feel the toxicity in my veins. It dropped down to 7.1 after 2 hours and back down to 4.7 after 3 hours. But clearly system doesn't like those spikes. So for me I have decided that I will manage the spikes rather than deceive myself into thinking lower than 7.8 after 2 ours is great. My body is telling me it ain't so I'll listen to that too.

 

[beatdise]

5 x 40g = 200g of carbs a day would put me in hospital I think Maybe 40g of carbs a day

Yes it would make me feel dodgy too. I can just about manage 5 grams of hi-lo toast in the morning.