Is this the food that is making the World obese?

[douglas99]

That takes us back to the start where I said I used HF to put weight on. QED

Yes, I've been saying that for quite a while.
Fat makes me fat as well.

 

[Oldvatr]

Wow, you're really doing great @Oldvatr. It's encouraging to hear reports like yours.

I've recommitted to doing the ketogenic diet and am solidly in ketosis right now. I'm 40 pounds lighter than my top weight but still 40 pounds heavier than my lean weight. It will be interesting to see how losing the excess fat will affect my glucose levels.

No possibility of me over doing anything. I enjoy eating healthy foods, and still indulge in the occasional treat.

OOPS So do I. Had Angel Delight the other night, and hardly noticed it on the meter, I am certainly more carb tolerant than I was a year ago, and this is with reduced meds. Not cured though, and it can still fall apart if i lapse, Good luck with the keto.

 

[ickihun]

I guess processed oil could be mucking up out fat making cells but would it not take generations rather than a near on instant effect?
Also why would some be affected not others in the same environment?
No I believe there is more to obesity than process oils.
I believe stress and how we deal with it is more appropriate!
Stress with any food not quite right for our symptom changes its dynamics. (Our human body process is where we should be looking.)
As some humans do become obese and others don't.
Like steriods etc. Some become diabetic, others don't. Why? Because of a weakness in the human body at the time changes its dynamics!
I believe stress affects the hormones and that is why reversal is easier for men, I feel.
Men deal with stress different to women. Ok there eill be once again exceptions but on the whole hormones are easily disrupted.
Ask any menopausal woman.
I read somewhere recently that heart failure statistics are way out of date. Men used to be more prone to heart disease. Now its women!
So when women used to be treated delicately it was because more affects her system. A more complicated system to keep healthy.
I wouldnt say process oil affects women more than men but hormone disruption does!
I don't think you can treat the female body the same as the male. They shut down differently. So I guess their reboot would be more involved too. Women have that extra chromosome. It does make a difference in how to keep the human body healthy.
Processed oil is just another external factor the human body has to filter from the body. If the filtering mechanisms are faulty then the body can become injuried.

 

[Thyroiddiabetic]

I did a load of research into metabolism over the last 18 months, and during my travels into understanding basic metabolism as currently demonstrated by recent scientific studies, it became quite clear to me that there are two types of fat involved in obesity. Carb metabolism ends up with both glucogen and water being stored in muscle tissue cells. Controlling carb intake directly affects these stores, but does not affect the second set of fat stores, namely the adipocytes in the brown or white fat cells.

These are controlled primarily by fat intake (and Fructose), not by carbs at all, and it is these cells that once created will always remain as a permanent fat store, We can deplete them somewhat by exercise or by following a LC diet that causes ketogenesis to occur, thus burning up the fat. BUT a low fat diet is not very successful at reducing this fat layer as countless dieters can avow to. So calorie restriction diets can reduce the glucogen stores and heavy exercise can reduce adipose stores, but its not very successful, and putting weight back on is sadly too easy,

I use an LCHF diet myself, and I have lost about 5" off my tum, and gone from 84kg down to 65kg. I have lost more than that and have had to put weight back on. I do that by increasing my fat intake, and this last 3 months I have kept to 66kg on successive weighings. So yes, I do believe fat intake does significantly affect my BMI, and I have demonstrated this and posted graphs of my results elsewhere on the forum. I do not think I am unique in this

That must have been very difficult to lose and maintain all that weight how do you look.I'm sure I would look like a pow at 64 kg

 

[zand]

I certainly gained weight more quickly when I switched to vegetable oils (for my heart lol) I reckon they did help to mess up my hormones and metabolism more. That's not true of sat fats for me though.

 

[Oldvatr]

I guess processed oil could be mucking up out fat making cells but would it not take generations rather than a near on instant effect?
Also why would some be affected not others in the same environment?
No I believe there is more to obesity than process oils.
I believe stress and how we deal with it is more appropriate!
Stress with any food not quite right for our symptom changes its dynamics. (Our human body process is where we should be looking.)
As some humans do become obese and others don't.
Like steriods etc. Some become diabetic, others don't. Why? Because of a weakness in the human body at the time changes its dynamics!
I believe stress affects the hormones and that is why reversal is easier for men, I feel.
Men deal with stress different to women. Ok there eill be once again exceptions but on the whole hormones are easily disrupted.
Ask any menopausal woman.
I read somewhere recently that heart failure statistics are way out of date. Men used to be more prone to heart disease. Now its women!
So when women used to be treated delicately it was because more affects her system. A more complicated system to keep healthy.
I wouldnt say process oil affects women more than men but hormone disruption does!
I don't think you can treat the female body the same as the male. They shut down differently. So I guess their reboot would be more involved too. Women have that extra chromosome. It does make a difference in how to keep the human body healthy.
Processed oil is just another external factor the human body has to filter from the body. If the filtering mechanisms are faulty then the body can become injuried.

Interesting take on the subject, but I feel this hypothesis does not explain why we are seeing a major increase in childhood obesity. Even toddlers are becoming rotund, and I don't think that is due to stress alone, or even gender differences. I blame modern diet factors as prime culprit, especially since changing diet can bring about such immediate and significant effect. This does not indicate removal of stress as leading to a 'cure' except where comfort eating is directly to blame - again diet related.

 

[Oldvatr]

That must have been very difficult to lose and maintain all that weight how do you look.I'm sure I would look like a pow at 64 kg

In my case it has been a very easy path to follow, My main goal in my diet was to normalise my bgl, and weight loss / fat reduction was never a goal of mine. In fact a 10 stone weakling figure is painful especially when sitting down on my (depleted) bottom esp in the bath (ouch). I actually lost more weight than I needed to, so had to proactively take steps to reverse the loss (by eating more fat, rather than increasing carb or protein). I did what the diet recommended, and it worked for me.

I find my diet is quite easy to maintain and am into my 15th month still juggling the four balls (carbs, fat, protein, meds) gently trying to reach equilibrium. So far it has been successful, and I am usually on autopilot now. I read labels more now, but apply simple rules without needing a calculator. These rules are in a spreadsheet printout which hangs on the larder door.

 

[carol43]

@Oldvatr I look after my grandson two days a week and his mother provides his lunch. The jars of baby food are so high in carbs with no fat that I am not surprised that children are getting fat. Everything aimed at babies is the same. I feed him half the jar of food and give him more healthy stuff to fill up but I don't tell them that. I am trying to do my bit to help him.

 

[ickihun]

Interesting take on the subject, but I feel this hypothesis does not explain why we are seeing a major increase in childhood obesity. Even toddlers are becoming rotund, and I don't think that is due to stress alone, or even gender differences. I blame modern diet factors as prime culprit, especially since changing diet can bring about such immediate and significant effect. This does not indicate removal of stress as leading to a 'cure' except where comfort eating is directly to blame - again diet related.

I see. Although why don't all diet changers become 'cured'? No everyone on no processed oil achieve remission or bgs changes to the better. Especially fbgs.
Does all organic eaters not have type2 diabetes? That would be a worthwhile experiment.

 

[Oldvatr]

I see. Although why don't all diet changers become 'cured'? No everyone on no processed oil achieve remission or bgs changes to the better. Especially fbgs.
Does all organic eaters not have type2 diabetes? That would be a worthwhile experiment.

In fact recent studies have demonstrated that diabetic remission is possible with Either = Low Carb High Fat or High Carb Very Low fat diets, so it seems it is the combinaton of the two that is problematic,

Yes there are people who follow a Whole Food Plant Based diet that have diabetes, and this diet too has shown some success in reducing the effects even with claims of a 'cure' for D. It is generally a highcarb, very low fat diet, The evidence supporting those claims do not hold water IMO.

I think what many of these diets have in common is in their removing industrually processed foods and snacks from the dietary intake path. That is why I say IMO that modern diets are unhealthy.

 

[MikeTurin]

. The jars of baby food are so high in carbs with no fat that I am not surprised that children are getting fat. Everything aimed at babies is the same. I feed him half the jar of food and give him more healthy stuff to fill up but I don't tell them that.

I am wondering the differences of baby food and baby nutrition in general in the 1970s and now.
On the other hand when a kid goes to the kindergarten things are changing. I remember my kindergarten in the 70 with a muddy backyard, a slide, a merry-go-round where we played hours and hours running and going in and out an old car body of a Fiat 600 (or was primary school?). Food was made by a big woman that was also a farmer and most things were bought fresh.
I also remember my mum was buying raw milk directly from a farm, more precisely taking it directly milking the cow. I think things are quite different nowadays...

 

[douglas99]

I am wondering the differences of baby food and baby nutrition in general in the 1970s and now.
On the other hand when a kid goes to the kindergarten things are changing. I remember my kindergarten in the 70 with a muddy backyard, a slide, a merry-go-round where we played hours and hours running and going in and out an old car body of a Fiat 600 (or was primary school?). Food was made by a big woman that was also a farmer and most things were bought fresh.
I also remember my mum was buying raw milk directly from a farm, more precisely taking it directly milking the cow. I think things are quite different nowadays...

Not really.
Although the milk is TB tested and pasteurised thankfully.
And there's no mud.

 

[Oldvatr]

I see. Although why don't all diet changers become 'cured'? No everyone on no processed oil achieve remission or bgs changes to the better. Especially fbgs.
Does all organic eaters not have type2 diabetes? That would be a worthwhile experiment.

In fact recent studies have demonstrated that diabetic remission is possible with Either = Low Carb High Fat or High Carb Very Low fat diets, so it seems it is the combinaton of the two that is problematic,

Yes there are people who follow a Whole Food Plant Based diet that have diabetes, and this diet too has shown some success in reducing the effects even with claims of a 'cure' for D. It is generally a highcarb, very low fat diet, The evidence supporting those claims do not hold water IMO.

I think what many of these diets have in common is in their removing industrually processed foods and snacks from the dietary intake path. That is why I say IMO that modern diets are unhealthy.

I am wondering the differences of baby food and baby nutrition in general in the 1970s and now.
On the other hand when a kid goes to the kindergarten things are changing. I remember my kindergarten in the 70 with a muddy backyard, a slide, a merry-go-round where we played hours and hours running and going in and out an old car body of a Fiat 600 (or was primary school?). Food was made by a big woman that was also a farmer and most things were bought fresh.
I also remember my mum was buying raw milk directly from a farm, more precisely taking it directly milking the cow. I think things are quite different nowadays...

A well known baby foods manufacturer had a factory in the town making baby foods. My son had a job there unloading drums of ingredients off the lorries. He had to wear full Hazmat safety gear, and they were told to evcuate immediately if a leak was detected in any barrel. These are supposedly baby safe foods, but one ingredient had a special handling area and the contents of the barrel had to be vented for 48 hours before anyone could go near it. They once made a batch early from it and many children fell ill from drinking it, my kids included. I have refused orange juice ever since, In fact I have seen vlogs showing using their 'soft' drinks as paint stripper and chrome cleaner on the Net.

 

[walnut_face]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08b7vyg an alternative view

 

[douglas99]

In fact recent studies have demonstrated that diabetic remission is possible with Either = Low Carb High Fat or High Carb Very Low fat diets, so it seems it is the combinaton of the two that is problematic,

Yes there are people who follow a Whole Food Plant Based diet that have diabetes, and this diet too has shown some success in reducing the effects even with claims of a 'cure' for D. It is generally a highcarb, very low fat diet, The evidence supporting those claims do not hold water IMO.

I think what many of these diets have in common is in their removing industrually processed foods and snacks from the dietary intake path. That is why I say IMO that modern diets are unhealthy.

A well known baby foods manufacturer had a factory in the town making baby foods. My son had a job there unloading drums of ingredients off the lorries. He had to wear full Hazmat safety gear, and they were told to evcuate immediately if a leak was detected in any barrel. These are supposedly baby safe foods, but one ingredient had a special handling area and the contents of the barrel had to be vented for 48 hours before anyone could go near it. They once made a batch early from it and many children fell ill from drinking it, my kids included. I have refused orange juice ever since, In fact I have seen vlogs showing using their 'soft' drinks as paint stripper and chrome cleaner on the Net.

Not really surprising.
Any concentrated fruit juice in itself is highly acidic.
And no one is going to pay high transport costs simply to shift water about, so concentrates are here to stay.

I have no issue with them, I do it myself every time I reduce a stock on the hob.
Or use an oxo cube.

 

[Oldvatr]

Not really surprising.
Any concentrated fruit juice in itself is highly acidic.
And no one is going to pay high transport costs simply to shift water about, so concentrates are here to stay.

I have no issue with them, I do it myself every time I reduce a stock on the hob.
Or use an oxo cube.

or anything using reconstituted protein (and I am not talking TVP here, but more like Bernard Matthews), I see Japanese industrialists are currently trialling recovered poo as a potential source of food. Have you seen how they create (yes. create) 'prime steak' from discard meat bits. There is a Youtube video showing the process used. glue plays a large part in getting it together. Yummy!

Yes modern food production is full of money saving inventions, and high fructose corn oil (Canola) started it, hence the OP,

 

[douglas99]

or anything using reconstituted protein (and I am not talking TVP here, but more like Bernard Matthews), I see Japanese industrialists are currently trialling recovered poo as a potential source of food. Have you seen how they create (yes. create) 'prime steak' from discard meat bits. There is a Youtube video showing the process used. glue plays a large part in getting it together. Yummy!

Yes modern food production is full of money saving inventions, and high fructose corn oil (Canola) started it, hence the OP,

More people to feed, and cheaper food needed for them.
Recovered poo has been used by farmers to create food since the beginning of time, all that the japanese are doing is speeding up the process a bit.
Iceland were selling steaks superglued together back in the 80's.
Very nice they were as well.

 

[Oldvatr]

Iceland were selling steaks superglued together back in the 80's.
Very nice they were as well.

That was exactly the company that came to mind while I was typing. But I did not want to show favouritism on this site.

It is no wonder we had the horsemeat scandal recently. Now yes, we used to eat horsemeat quite cheerfully during the war years, but that was necessity, whereas these changes coming in are posssibly more related to corporate greed, so may not be so welcome. They are also hidden.

I am sure cat fried rice or chowhound mein are equally edible, but are still things that repulse many of us here. We do not actually know what modern processed foods contain, and are they reliable? The Chinese scandal of adding plasticisers to baby milk, and the Spanish Olive Oil tradgedies also come to mind. I personally am losing my blind faith in our food supply chain. Ratatouille anyone?

 

[douglas99]

That was exactly the company that came to mind while I was typing. But I did not want to show favouritism on this site.

It is no wonder we had the horsemeat scandal recently. Now yes, we used to eat horsemeat quite cheerfully during the war years, but that was necessity, whereas these changes coming in are posssibly more related to corporate greed, so may not be so welcome. They are also hidden.

I am sure cat fried rice or chowhound mein are equally edible, but are still things that repulse many of us here. We do not actually know what modern processed foods contain, and are they reliable? The Chinese scandal of adding plasticisers to baby milk, and the Spanish Olive Oil tradgedies also come to mind. I personally am losing my blind faith in our food supply chain. Ratatouille anyone?

I ate horsemeat happily in France in the 80's and 90's.
Many people object to rabbit, but I'm fine.
I'd have no issue eating cat or dog either to be honest.
They were adding deicer to wine in the 80's, so that's not new either.
I have to be honest, I have a lot more faith in corporate supplies, with real quality control, than craft and small farmers markets, that can label anything they want to, can buy honey from the local supermarket, steam the label off, and rebrand as organic, can buy meat in and sell the same 'organic' traceable cow several times over.
As to buying 'organic' products off the internet, at prices too good to be true, and vitamins at unbelievably low prices.........

 

[Oldvatr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08b7vyg an alternative view

Describes my Missus to a T. Except her fav food is doughnuts which pushes both Fat and sugar buttons in the same mouthfull. Not sure her problem eating disorder is due to genetics since her parents were both thin, her siblings are thin, and our children are thin. Only she is eating all my hypo emergency supplies and specially chosen low carb snax. Think it is large eyes in her case, which does run in her family. Her eyes are bigger than her stomach.

Not conclusive and is still a work in progress. But for the Leptin deficient patients its an obvious big plus, but they are a small group with a particular medical disorder, and do not represent the greater populace. But it opens the pathway to further research. Still think it will not find a One Pill fits all